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Old Jan 04, 2002, 08:44 PM
jah
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Build Questions for a HL Mini Tornado

This is my first EPP flying wing build, so would like to ask the brains out there a few questions:

1) Can I subsitute the "recommened" strapping tape with high quality metal "air conditioning" tape, used to seal HVAC ducts?

2) I want to replace the no name 280 motor with a Sagami 280BB, and use 8X600As. The motor is 15 grams heavier, and the instructions say cut out the mounting points, then glue the wing together. I am going to cut every thing but the battery bay out of the wing. Then after I have it built, with every thing mounted (except the battery) then place the battery to get the CG right. THEN cut out the battery box. I can't see anything wrong with that. SO my question is "WHAT AM I MISSING?"

3) Finally I have a 4MM graphite rod that weighs 12 grams. I want to use this as a spar. The kit makes no mention of a spar, so how do I install this into two solid piece EPP foam wings?

Thanks for any info.

Jerry
Jr Crash Test Dummy (Dummy R/C pilot that is!!)
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Old Jan 04, 2002, 10:44 PM
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Mini Tornado

Think that metal straping tape will be too heavy, I used fiberglass tape. Go with the stronger motor if you can I think the stock 280 and gear drive is underpowered. I built servo arm and motor covers as I fly on a frozen lake a lot and find that I have ripped off the motor mount three times on good landings and that the servo arms will hit the ground and break off soon. The plane glides and turns great but I have trouble keeping it up even with 45 deg of elevon throw! Tried a APC 8x6 Slowfly prop, better but still a dog. Ground down and reamed out a GWS 8x4.7 orange prop and hope to try it in the AM if winds are less than 10MPH.
Really don't think you'll need a spar with the EPP wing and the lack of speed the plane has. Does look real cool flying in your face, just wish I could keep it up for more than a minute at a time. Am using 7 and 8 cell NIMH 750s.
Good luck and keep us posted as I have not seen any posts on this wing

Regards,
Pete.
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Old Jan 04, 2002, 11:47 PM
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Re: Build Questions for a HL Mini Tornado

Quote:
Originally posted by jah
This is my first EPP flying wing build, so would like to ask the brains out there a few questions:

1) Can I subsitute the "recommened" strapping tape with high quality metal "air conditioning" tape, used to seal HVAC ducts?
No!! Too heavy and I dont know if it would be as strong. Just get the strapping tape..you can find it at walmart..it's the stuff with the fibreglass strings in it.

Quote:
2) I want to replace the no name 280 motor with a Sagami 280BB, and use 8X600As. The motor is 15 grams heavier, and the instructions say cut out the mounting points, then glue the wing together. I am going to cut every thing but the battery bay out of the wing. Then after I have it built, with every thing mounted (except the battery) then place the battery to get the CG right. THEN cut out the battery box. I can't see anything wrong with that. SO my question is "WHAT AM I MISSING?"
Mine came with a graupner 280, not the mig280 as it says in the catalog. I believe the graupner is a better motor. I also used an astro 010 direct and geared...liked the direct astro the best...it flew like a zagi with it. I may add a spar and try a DD 400 next.
As to balancing it, go for it, thats basicaly how I did it.

Quote:
3) Finally I have a 4MM graphite rod that weighs 12 grams. I want to use this as a spar. The kit makes no mention of a spar, so how do I install this into two solid piece EPP foam wings?
Make a groove in the wing and glue it in there. I used a rotary tool with a rotozip bit to do the one in my razor...kinda messy but worked...you might be able to do it with an old soldering gun or iron, thats what i did with the tronado for the battery,etc. Do it outside and avoid the fumes...actually, now that I think about it,
thats how I did my razor too, but I will leave the rotozip part in here as a suggestion


Hope that helps Jerry...Dave should be publishing my review soon, I hope.

Peterv,

I didnt find that the plane lacked power with the stock system, but I pretty much expected what I got... a park flyer that was reasonably aerobatic, but slow enough to fly in front of my house.
YMMV, but I liked it fine stock...I am looking for more speed out of it, but I'm not gonna keep the 010 in it, cause I have another plane in progress for it.


Later,
David
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Last edited by Gofli; Jan 04, 2002 at 11:50 PM.
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Old Jan 05, 2002, 07:13 AM
jah
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Thanks Guys!!!!!!!!!!!

Will use your suggestions, and keep you posted.
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Old Jan 05, 2002, 03:04 PM
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Mini Tornado

Well, new prop 8x4.7 and still slow! I know it is a slow flyer but it just wants to go down after a few min of flight, tried different batts and same thing it just dosen't seem to have enough power.(yes, the prop is on right!). and the unbreakable epp foam elevon broke in half after a stall and hard landing, wow Try a new prop and maybe a new motor next. Let me know how you make out.

Pete
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Old Jan 05, 2002, 04:23 PM
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Peter,

The elevons are eps(cooler foam), not epp...mine have a couple dings in them too!! Probably the toughest replacement material would be coroplast, the corogated plastic sign material.

Later,
David
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Old Jan 05, 2002, 05:06 PM
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Hi Dave!

Was thinking those elevons were not the same as the wing... Have lots of coroplast thanks to the liquor store in my plaza! Old signs are great! The plane is a joy to launch not like my Zagi gets right up and glides but just gradually gets lower and eventually wants to land, very interesting... I'll figure it out. Good luck with yours, looks to be a fun plane once it is straightned out.

Pete
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Old Jan 05, 2002, 07:08 PM
jah
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Here is where I am at:

1) I put CF tape on the LE, and put strapping tape over it
2)I used a soldering iron to cut a channel out right on the recommended CG for the carbon spar. Used elmers pro-bond to fill it in.
3) Placed the ESC, servos, RX, and mounted the Speed 280BB, then tried to get the CG at 188mm. Looks like with the extra 12 grams from the motor, I will have to move the RX up alittle, and place the battery (8x600AEs) just behind where the RX goes.

Don't know if I will do that, or just go with the stock motor.

Here are two pictures:
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Old Jan 05, 2002, 07:09 PM
jah
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Pict number two
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Old Jan 06, 2002, 01:23 PM
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Jah, Plane looks great! Should really go! Had mine up this AM in 10MPH winds with GWS 9x7 prop, great flights but after a while I seem to loose control and it lands. Wonder if my pushrods are binding? The wire on the rods is very thin and when it does decide to go down I seem to lack control. Oh well, the mysteries of F-Flight... I did loop and roll it today, cool. The launch is fantastic, you throw it up and it just glides forever till you hit the power and it stays up on 1/2 power just fine. Can't wat to get it sorted out this should be a fun wing.

Pete
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Old Jan 07, 2002, 11:48 AM
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HL Mini Tornado Flys!!

Hi all!

Changed the ESC on the MT and control problem went away! Flew this AM on the lake behind my house in 10 to 15 MPH winds and it flew fine Got about 7-8 min on a 7 cell 500Ma NiMH and 10 Min on my 8 cell 720Ma NiMH! Still plent of power left, was surprised that it did so well in that wind for such a small plane. Flys like my Zagi but at slow speed. Nice plane HL!

Pete
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Old Jan 07, 2002, 02:08 PM
jah
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Great news Pete , mine is almost ready to go. Just waiting on crystals for the new TX with mixing. Hope to test fly in the next few days!
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Old Jan 07, 2002, 05:53 PM
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Great Jerry! Can't wait to hear how you like it, ought to be great with the more powerful motor. Can't get over how great it hand launches, not like my Zagi, if you are not into the wind with a good toss down it goes! You just toss it and it glides forever and you can take your time to hit the power, stays up with 1/3 power. Did some loops and rolls today, very responsive, just watch your landings as it does not want to come down, you have to use the down control!!(hate to do that!) Keep in touch.

Pete
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Old Jan 12, 2002, 09:13 AM
jah
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First flight!!!!

FIRST FLIGHT:
In short, GREAT!!!!

Went out this morning to a school yard, and conducted my first flight of the Mini Tornado. The school yard has a large field overlooking an outdoor basketball court. There is about a 8 foot drop from the field down to the court. This was to be my first hand launch with the motor off ( the TigerMoth just flys out of your hand) so figured I would need the time/altitude. Boy was I right!! The first launch, I kinda gently tossed it (holding it by the motor mount), and I just gawked at how gently the glide was, then remembered "Oh Yeah, throttle". Slammed in full throttle, sllight right to dodge the oncoming Basketball goal, and she leaped up. Starting climbing at about 45 degrees. Pushed nose down, to about 15 degrees climb to altitude (10 mistakes high!!).
No Trim needed, pulled back to less than 1/2 half, and tooled around. Pretty fast even at that throttle setting. Then had a problem I had seen on the bench, my ESC resets, and I get about 10% power. Got to see more of the fantastic glide the Mini Tornado, chopped the power and made a very slow (almost as slow as the Tiger Moth) flat power off landing. Reset the battery, (unplug/plug back in) the ESC recongizes full power, Back to another lanch. Did this three times, all good flights, on the 4th flight I ran the battery till the BEC cut in. In these flights I explored the handling a bunch. At one point I was running under 1/2 power in level flight, ran up to full power, let her get ahead of steam, then pulled up into the vertical. Got about 2/3rd of a telephone penetration, pushed the nose over back to level flight. COOL!!
She is kinda twitchy, in both pitch, and roll axis, but all my prior experince is with the TigerMoth, so its diffently the pilot. Will have to explore the functions on my radio, like dual rates, and expontential.

Talk at you later

Jerry

PS: I am going to start another thread about this over in the parkflyers section entitled "Thanks E-Zoners"

Later
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Old Jan 12, 2002, 11:39 AM
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Mini Tornado

Great Jerry! Glad you got it flying. Have had mine up every day this week with several good crashes- Who said EPP foam does not break! Cracked the nose twice at the same spot in front of the battery cutout. Yesterday was flying in a 5 acre detention pond(empty) and was amazed at how well it flew in 10 to 15 MPH winds till I was low into the bowl of the pond and a gust of wind hit it and nosed in under power... Cracked nose and torn off elevon and hinge. Fixed last nite and ready to go today. Do experiment with expo and dual rate-the wing is real twitchy with full throws on the control. So far I am using 70% on dual rate and -30% on expo which makes it much easier to fly. Don't you just love that free flight glide on launch? Makes you almost forget to hit the power! Had mine at the pond I fly with a 75 foot hill and it must have glided for 30 sec or more before I powered it up. What a blast! Using 6,7 and 8 cell NiMH. Have fun!

Pete
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