Rave longer aerobird challenger flying time

[Ken-Ohki]

Originally Posted by guy5927

okay,

let's say I buy a Hitec or Futaba basuc 4 ch radio + servo's ... how do I know in what airplane the servo's fit ?

That's why I like the bird-range..... out of the box and in the air ...

I quite frankly am afraid of having trouble buiding in the servo's and putting together an ARF .is that difficult ?

you do have to pay some attention to what you are buying,, as a general rule, micro or pico servos are what you want, like the hs-55. Large planes might require bigger, super small/light will require tiny. but,, Standart micro sized servos will do most planes in the beginer catigory. Every plane I ever saw stated what it recomended for a flight pack,, as long as yorus is close, its usualy close enough.
Ken-Ohki

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

The stick is in the house, yea baby! I opened the box, I was suprised to see how big it was and I instantly saw why people have problems with folds in the wings, man are they thin and light. It actually ended up comming with the 300c motor and 1180 gearing. I figure since I have some time I am going to take it step by step . The first part of the directions instructed me to use some tape to connect peices of the tail. Did you use the tape it came with or did you use bix tape instead. BTW I saw on TV today duck Tape has a clear duck tape now. You might have already known that but I love duck tape so if it is now clear chances are its a bit lighter and we all know how strong it is. Im sure it will have it;s uses somewhere to.

I am just going to build by the directons step by step and ask questions as I go. I look over this thread cause I remember you telling me about a set up for the slow stick I think. I also am going to need to get some razor blades. I never bought a hobby knife should I ask for anything specific or just pick up on. I am very excited to build this thing up. My freind also just had his first flight today on that 2 chanl he bought. Did okay too went a bit to the left so I told him how to get that right. Were gonna fly on Sunday weather permiting.

Sorry no fish man I know how that is too. Mo haa haa.

[Ken-Ohki]

I did not use te tape that came with it. I used the packing tape I suggested earlier.

as far as hobby knives go, almost any will do, I use the cheap plastic ones with the 6 inch long blades you can break off as they get old to expose sharp blade.

I love duc tape, but it is pretty heavy. be interesting to see what there clear tape is like.

asembly is pretty simple. just a few general things. DO NOT cut the tube as suggested, epoxy the rods to the win in addition to taping them. Put epoxy in the seam where the wing folds up to help hold it together also.

1180 is the prop size, you most likely have a c or D gear box. You will definitly want a few extra props around that size.

you will have a blast with that plane, it should only take a few hours to put it together. My second one only took me 20 min from box to air, But then it took another hour to do the wing reinforcement. ( definitly reinforce the wing somehow.)

ow well, off to work so i can afford more plane parts.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Thanks,

you read my mind a flag went up when they said to cut the tube.I will get some more props. It didn't seem hard but it definitly had more cutting involved that I originally thought. I opened it up and looked at the directions then put it back in the box so I could aske a few questions on it. Did you use those plastic hinges where the rods attach to the flaps. They looked so flimsy I was wondering if they should be relaced with more sturty ones. Also alot of parts looked flimsy. Can you think of any parts you auttomatically change out. I was reading abot APC Props and prop saver combo's people made and I thought to myself....self this looks like a great idea. Did you do anything like that on your plane. I have also been trying to finalize my understanding of the electronics of the plane. Here we go tell me what you think.

Servos - controll the moving surfaces and the throttle , some throttles are done electronically

Reciever - recieves the signal from the tranxmitter and tells the ESC what to do with the servos

ESC - Tells servos and other channels what to do

Battery -supplies the juice

Can I expect 20 -25 minutes of flight of a non lypo pack?

I am going to read all up on how to reinforce the wing, BTW what kind of wind can these things handle. They are so much bigger so I would think more than my 2 chnls.

What kind of performance /tricks / length of flight. characteristics can I expect from my current set up provided I don't weigh it down to death. I am going to try to start on it tonight. Might try to find some O that Duck tape to sample. So clear packing tape it is. This thing is super light I can't wait. I figure I will build it slowly and do all the mods really well and asI am building it and crashin my Y Bee I will get components. I think I should get the Flash 5 first. Do you think that is a good move?

Also I should be able to fly this in a gym right, that sounds like so much fun ... No Wind yea. Hope you have a good one with the Lobsters see ya

[Ken-Ohki]

Plastic hindges? Flaps?? Uhh, you lost me.

the only thing that needs to be changed out stock is perhaps the aluminum joiner brackets, but with creative wing reinforcement such as I have done, I left them in place.


You almost got it.

servos - Moves the control surfaces, and on slimers handles throttle
reciver - Recives signal and tells everything what to do.
ESC - (electronic speed control) Handles throttle and supplys juice to the reciver
BEC - ( battery eliminator circute ) cuts off juice to the motor when the pack gets weak
battery - Juice.

so you were half right about it.

As far as wind.. as a beginer 5 is ok 7 is pushing it. One experienced, 10 moh isnt too bad.

FLight time is based on tehbattery you use. And how much throttle you use. I use a 900 mah 7 cell pack. I get about 15 ta 20 minutes depending on the wind and how much gliding I do. After 10 min or so im usualy ready to put it on the ground anyway.

The SS will, Loop, fly upside down, Tail slides, Stalls, Hammer heads,It will roll with practice, and do many other simple manuvers.

It is possible to fly them inside,, If you are good enough to control it inside.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ohhh okay I git it now, thanks...so you tired of all these questions yet or what man. I do appreciate all the help

The hingers flaps thing has to do with the long rods that go from the servos to the flap. Their is a "hinge" or plastic connecting peice that links the rod to the flap and it looks real flimsy considering all the tugging and pulling it's taking. Some planes use the fishing string method instead of the rod thing. I know I could probably remove the and trade them out but no need if it is okay and will stand the test of time.

What king of a setup wolud I need to do that hovering stuff and is it going to take me a long time before I am good enough to do that or is it easier than it looks. Obviously long is relative to how much you practice but I just want to know the difficulty level of hovering. I took the Bee out for a fly yeaterday following full repairs and much protection added. Was too nose heavy. I had made a styrafoam nose to go over the front of the plane and added some duck tape arounf the boom where it meets the plastic. Bottom line too heavy overall especially in the front. I would throw it and it would begin a long slow dive and if I threw it hard enough it would just graze the grass and climb up 15 to 20 feet at which tiime I had to make some corrections using the transmitter and the 2 chnl way means less motor for one or 2 secs so I then lost mu altitude on the correction.... back to earth it went. Front was awesome though not a scratch. Probably would work fine with a challenger since it's stronger

I finally pulled some of the styrofoam nose off along with it's epoxy and low and behold she climbed . Oh yea for got to tell you was dpomg a wide circuit and it flew over a school roof. I dared not cut te motor and I was flying with a tree between me and the school and my plane airborne on the far outside. Well the plane hit the far side of the tree which was hanging onto the roof of the school. I was not even worried cause I knew somehow my plane was coming back home with me tonight. I walked around the school till l found a gate ad since I am pretty tall I could stand on the gate and pull myself up on the roof . Long story short not a scrath and it's sitting at home. I landed after that last somewhat successful flight. I figured I better take her home and get the weigt right befor I have a major crash. I also realized at some oint I am going to need to get a sturdy plane I can learn all the basics on and crash alot and it will still fly. I need a reliable but durable plane to learn on. Here are my ideas thus far.

First of all is the slow stick at al like that seems very vulnrable to me.

I have looked at:

Smoothe
T 52
A-6 Texan
Graupner Terry
Wingo
Aerobird Challenger

What do you think is te best crash plane that is 3 chanl or better?

Tips

[Ken-Ohki]

Hmm, I think you are refuring to the control horns. the stock ones should be fine, but you should definitly put a bit of epoxy on them to help hold them to the tail surface.

With a brushless motor, the SS will do tork rolls, But not really hover, It lascks teh control surfaces needed to truley hover. ( ailerons ) Hovering should take you a month or so of practice before you really get teh hang of it,, It is not something a newbie shuold be endevering to do, Learn how to fly first, with 3 chans, then learn a 4 chan rig, then after you can make the plane do what you want, whenever you want, reguarless of wind or possition,, then you can start to mess with the more advanced stuff like hovering.

after teh aerobird, and the slow stick, I would move to the E-starter. after that is mastered, you can pretty much go fly anything.

Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

Cool beans, I haven't been able to work on the SS yet have to work all weekend too. It's Move Out at Upenn. What ere you flying these days and how is that Extreme you were helping you friend work on. Did the conversion work good, sounded like a cool idea. I would one day like to create my own design. Went flying again last night and did fairly betterbut the weigh twas still a little off and I realized I glued the tail into the slot crooked so it wants to go to the left. These little 2 channels teach you alot about flying just by the repairs. You would not think that2 milimeters could make so much difference.

You would have laughed hare at my first flight yesterday, I threw it and it went up level and straight and .....just kept going.....level and straight....added some left turn Nope! Level and straight Right ...Nope level and straight till it dissapeared into the woods. I laughed and then walked into the woods to locate my plane that fortunantly was still reving. Needed to be reset.

Was still to much wind though it probably was no more than 3 to 4 mph. Anyway catch me up on your latest works

[Ken-Ohki]

I havent been flying anything lately, between work and wind Ihavent had a chance. But I am bringing my ABC, and my SS with me out of town this weekend, hopefully, ill get a chance to fly them.

The extream is sitting on a shelf awaiting parts, I think I finaly convinced the owner to learn how to fly his ABC before messing with this again, so it is not likey to get much atttention for awile. ther isnt a dout in my mind that it will convert NP.

So why did your plane go straight? forget to connect something?

Ow well, Im off to the shower then on the road for a few hours.. Laters


Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

I think I just needed to reset it I must have turned things on in the wrong order, but you know now that I think about it, I remember hearing about being real careful about the length of the antenea. I had to buy a new one mine had been skidded off in ... a crash you know. So I bough antenea wire frrom the hobby shop and made a new one and never thought twice about it till just now when I remember reading something about being careful with that. I am sure it is longer now than befor but that may or may not be better. I looked over the SS plans last night and somehow they looked alot easier this time, still no work done yet.

BTW you told me once about merging two packs together to form one. How do you do that the proper way, I'm sure I could jerry rig something but how i sit suppse to be done. Also can you charge them like that too or just use them.


So the Xtreme is handful I guess, I was eyeballing that Smoothe again, really looks like a cool plane. Ever flown one or seen one flown. I will go with the E-Starter next. I heard that it takes mini servos. When I get ready to get mine I might need some help to try to match something that will fit my first few planes though I bet i will want a separate set of stuff for each.

Well today is about to be a busy day our main move out is today so hear we go with 600 students moving out. Have a good one

[Ken-Ohki]

I dont beleive I used the word Merge. that would imply a permanant joining of the packs, something I dont recomend.

However, You can make a Y-harness and connect 2 similure ( cemistry, cell count and capasity ) either in series or in parrelle, Your purpose would require a parrelle connection. Pretty simple. Onle real notes here beside make sure the cemistry, cell count and capasity are the same, and do not pair a old with a new pack. Charge them seperatly. This is really something you can do to make what you have work, But is not something you should set out to do as part of your game plan,

No and No again on the smoothe

everyone wants a seperate setup for each plane, Unfortunetly, Cash usualy prevents this. I do recall you saying money was tight. WIch is why I steered you tward doing the "real" radio thing, in the long run ( even if its a short long run ) you will have a flghtpack that will move plane to plane. as long as you are using nicro, or quivilant servos, I dout you will have much problem getting anything you will be flying for a wile in the air. Especialy the planes Ive recomended.


Ken-Ohki
"I make things do what I want them to, The hell with what they were designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken thanks,

As I read your message back I could not help but to sense irritation in your message. Is that correct I know I could be wrong? I wanted to ask you and not assume. I know I have often restated your words incorrectly because I did not remember the specific way you first described it but I often only wish to jog your memory with the nearest thing I could think of to reference what you may have earlier spoken about. It's hard to tell in email type messaging so I always say it's best to ask about the tone of a message. Anyway I know I write alot and do not want to exhaust you in answering questions or take your generousity in teaching for granted. I do hope you feel free to ask me to spead the questions out, I was not totally sure of the forum ediquette so I have been a bit reluctant to jump in to chats where an established group seem to be conversing and ask a bunch of questions when they are focused on something else. I could of course be way off base and you are laughing as you write each time, I guess it's because I can't tell that I ask. I don't want misread you "git it mis-read" Haa ..Anyway let me know.

Here is the latest, I took some buds out to fly yesterday, my friend finally got his plane and we flew it. I now see on a very small scale why they say let someone else look at your plane before you fly if your new. I am new and he is too but I have put one or two cheapies together so I saw some instant issues in his plane like missing screws that let the main wing fly off after every two flights and what must have been a blind folded packing tape job to reinforce the main wing. It was funny and sobering when I thought about what someone could see in my flying and building if I saw that after only 2 1/2 months of learning. I hardly even know what I'm doing yet.

One of my other friends who came kinda got me upset though. I think after you build these and go through alot of repairs you gain alot of appreciation for actual flight time. I bought both my planes to fly and invited him the other guy I was flying wiith and a forth friend to come watch if they wanted. I was flying my first plane when he said he would get the other one since my batts were running low. I thought cool thats a cool gesture. Then he turned it on and the plane and transmitter and the motor starts reving. ( Keep in mind this was my longest repair job to date 4 hours ). He looked like he was about to toss it ( never having touched one ) and I bout crapped my pants as I mustered all my patience to ask him to please turn it off. I didn't want to be selfish but I knew he would crash it and I just finished building it again from the ground up and had not even flown it yet , so I was beside myself for a minute. All in all it was a good flying day though I have confirmed yet again that the Bee is too light , it's like you have to hold your breath to keep from blowing it out of the sky.... I broke the main wing ..again. Knoew it was too windy but I had been waiting for 2 weeks now and the othres flew well but I knew it was too much for that plane.

I can feel myself getting sucked in to the hobby that may account for what may seem like an expanding budget. I think I am beginning to understand how you might feel like flying different planes on a given day.

Have a good one and thank you again for all your help.

[Ken-Ohki]

I have reread my last a few times and dont see any difference in my tone from any other post I have made ;p

My answering your questions is by choice. Not like I have too, So its pretty safe to asume that as long as I am answereing them, that I am not irritated.

Its generaly pretty easy to spot flaw in anything that isnt yours hehe, Amazing how diffucult it is sometimes to spot them when they are yours. As the first person in my group to abtain, and be able to fly a 3 chan plane, or any plane for that matter, I have become the guiding light of my group advising them in there purchases, and rebuilding most of there carnage. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they dont, But They learn something either way. ( mostly they learn to be thankful they have a free maintence man ) It appears that you are gonna be your groups little light. SO being armed with as much relivant info as possible will make life easier for all in your group.

So your friend was gonna throw your plane huh? ( snicker ) None of my friends would dream of doing such a thing without asking. ( me on the other hand, I pretty much fly whatever plane I wish whenver I see fit seeing as how I keep them all in the air ) I think were I you, I might concider keeping the battery packs in my pocket to my planes to prevent such a thing wile you arent watching., It does hoever show a interest on your friends part. All Of my group got addicted from me letting them try my 2 chan planes under my watchfull eye and instruction.. Now they are all hooked and scrambling for raios, planes servos, and all sorts of miscilainious stuff that might be adapted.

Ill give you a tip or 2 about flying in wind.

1 shim a popsicle stick under the trailing edge where it rests on the fusilage. This will give it less tendancy to climb and direct more energy into pushing you forward.

2 Move your center of gravity forward. This will give you more authority in the wind, but does have a slight downside. It will make the plane drop faster when gliding, and it will also make it a bit less inclined to climb.

3 Always fly with the wind in your face, and the plane in front of you. Try your best to fly directly into, and directly with the wind. Try to fly sidlong the wind as little as possible and only when turning to come around for another up or downwind leg. When transitioning from upwind to downwind, the plane will turn fast, so use less stick, and be prepared to compensate for overturn. When transitioning from downwind to upwind you plane will turn sluggishly, Use more control, and or longer control imput. Over controling isnt as much of a issue here.

4 Do not forget that sometimes,, Even though you desire to move slower, or feel the plane is moving at a good speed,,,,, Sometimes you just have to give full throttle to get the control responce you need to make it do what you want.

5 Your planes flight characteristics will not change to suit you.. You must learn to fly the plane and not let it fly you. Yes, you can adjust the flight characteristics with slight CG adjustments and such, BUT. All and all. learn what your plane does, then figure out how to make it do what you want. If you first try to make it do what you want before getting used to it,, You are gonna loose.

One good thing about being the guy who fixes everything,, Ya aquire allot of spare parts.

Today, after installing a new tail on my fiends ABC, Repairing a folded and mutilated wing with tape and gorilla glue, and resoldering the power leads on 2 different planes for other friends, I decided to take on two prodjects for myself.
One being a lite setup for my SS, so I can fly it at night, I think this will be a permanant instalation but I might make it moveable from plane to plane. I was gonna use led lights but my radioshack did not have what I needed for led's and resistors. So instead i went with some micro dc 6 volt lites.

And secondly. I have a twin motor 2 chan arf that is pretty beat, so I decided to buy a balsa rubberband powered plane with a 17 inch wing span, and mount the arfs, motors, radio and battery to it to see how that works.

Was suposed to go flying this eavning, but its raining,, go figure ;(

Ken-Ohki

" I make things do what I want them to. The hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken,

Thansk for clarity, it's allways good to keep the airways clear so I appreciate that. Looks like you are doing a bit of tinkering with lights. I have seen a few links with planes that have lights , makes them look very realistic. How heavy is your SS now. And have yo done any of the Mods that aeropenguin wrote about in one of the posts " assuming you read it of course" I am trying to figure out which ones I will do. That was so funny that you said you said you were converting a rubberband model, I just bought a 1.89 rubberband balsa cause I had them when I was a kid. Now that I have a motor powered one it's ot as fun though.

Yea looks like I will be the spark for our little posse of wanna be flyers. HAA! I now look at odds and ends lying around wondering how they might fit or reinforce something. Those flying tips really make sense too. I think that tends to be my challenge. I turn into the wind to shallow sometimes and end up running out of room and needing to turn back the other way taking me further away from where I am. Seems like the further away the more the plane has a mind of its own. Maybe bad reception or something, just doesnt seem as responsive.

I also sometimes get in to what I think is called porpusing you know that dip rise stall dip rise stall thing. I have started to get myself out of it lately but its not a science yet. I still think I am trying to get up long enout to see what I need to adjust then get it back down safely to doo it. Getting better with the landings also, had 3 or 4 goodones yesterday, 3 or 4 bad ones too. Yellowbee broke a wing ...again peice a junk. Yea.... I'll be fixing it later today. Mo Haa hAa! Should be able to get the ABC pretty soon, though I have been reading so many threads on the SS lately. Cant wait to see that fly too.

What planes do you have , I just realized I don't know any of your fleet other than your SS and ABC. I'll go first... Firbird outlaw, Yellow Bee, SS. Okay that was fast.. Do you fly any of the warbirds?

Okay well I need to get out of here, someone should be here to take over for me in a minute so I am outta here.

[Ken-Ohki]

generaly speaking if you are pourposing, it is a CG issue, or a tail issue for a 2 chan plane. ( or both )

One or the other, or a little of both is makeing the plane nose up and climb more then it is supposed to. Then it looses speed, starts to stall, noses down and picks up speed, then repeats..

Moving the cg slightly forward will probably help. If your tail is a Vtail, tighten the rear mount screw a little and loosen the front one a little., WHen I say a little i mean 1 ta 2 turns for each in there respective direction. Both of these adjustemnts will make noticible changes in handling. ( its all about balance, or CG if you will )

As far as dealing with the pouposing in the air.. ther are really only 2 things to do.. FIrst, at the top of the arc, turning will often stop it from porpising,, Also, reducing power on the way up and applying it on the way down will also help stop this.

I have a assortment of planes.

2 red twin motor jobs, they are called intruders or intercepters, they are Airhoggs and great little toy planes.

3 black piles of crap, ( long story )also air hoggs, ( dont by the black or purple resistor ) I bought 1 and made the company send me 2 others becuse they all sucked. I have 1 in pieces, 1 semi modifyed, and 1 that has never flown. eventualy, when I work out the modded one to the point it flys decent, Ill convert the other one neater and finaly have one that flies decently.

1 airrider falcon, 2 chan Canard style, A slow flyer and great plane, but it dont do well in wind. Looks kinda funny too.

1 Esties Electric turbine 1 chan Jet. Also not a bad plane but needs a better battery then stock.

1 ABC. Crashed a dozen times or more and well over 300 flights. Still going strong, 2 wings, 2 tails , some tape and glue is all this plane has ever needed

1 glow powered alpha trainer. I dont like glow, So this one although fully funcctional, just takes up space on my bench right now. One of these days I might take it out. Last time I tried to start it, It failed to run. WHen Ihave time and feel like pounding my head against the wall, Ill mess with it again.

1 SS - speed 300, c gearing, with a 900 mah 7 cell aerobird battery. I also have a camera mount for this one that I havent had good luck with ( crappy camera ) and is soon to be the first with lights installed. This plane has 50 or so flights, totaling at least 10 ta 12 hours or more. Original motor still seems to be going strong, but I did fold a wing on it, Forcing me to reinforce it.. You asked me what mods I did to my SS, The wing reinforcement is the only real mod, other then reinforcing the landing gear with string and epoxy to help prevent them from spreading. I also installed a permanant Y harness for the betterys. I use it to run 2 packs for more capasity and I am htinking of using it to plug my lites in. Not the best way, but it is a way, and simplist/quickest. I might end up plugging them into a empty chan on my reciver, but I am undecided if I want to do that.

1 E-Starter This isnt a bad plane, but I havent flown it much since I built it. I was dissipointed with the recomended battery pack and have not modifyed it to take the "right" pack ( in my opinion ) wich will be the same pack I run the SS on. It flew fine stock , I just want more power.

1 Potensky Cobra. I was very dissipointed with this plane stock, it is curently sitting on the shelf awaiting about $300 to go brushless, and replace the 4 servos and reciver I stole for other planes.

I do not have any War Birds right now. I have been looking at a few ( GWS naturaly ). But I promised myself I would not buy any new planes till I bought all the components I need to have each of my planes ready for the air, with its own dedicated flight pack. In order to do that I need:

(aprox cost )

1 brushless motor /w brushless ESC $130
1 25 amp esc $ 40
7 hs-55 servos $160
4 hs-50 servos $ 90
1 feather lite super small reciever $ 50
3 hs 555 recivers ( or similure ) $180
---------------------------------------------------
$650 bucks (Owch !) + tax and/or shipping


Ken-Ohki

" I make things do what I want them to. The hell with what they are designed to do."