Rave longer aerobird challenger flying time

[Wingtips24]

Hey everyone I am pretty new to this myself but it has been awsome so far. I am thinking about getting an aerobird challenger. I currently have an Firbird Outlaw and a yellow bee. ( Picked em myself HA haa ) .... now I am thinking about getting an areobird Challenger. I am really impressed with the reviews and research comparitively that I have done and have settled on this when funds permit. One thing I was wondering since I know that so much is able to be manipulated in some way is how can get some longer flight times out of this thing. It looks like 12 -15 minutes is the max. My yellow bee gets about 20 minutes and after seeing the difference from my outlaw (10 minutes) I realized that I must find a way to fly longer. Can you build your own packs for this plane? I was also wondering what the differences in battery types are and what the difference is between 6 or 7 cells. It seems different packs provide different outputs. Is that true. Also can I take apart old Battery packs that came with my RTF and combine them to make longer lasting or more powerful Battery packs? Do 6, 7,8,9 cell battery packs give more power or longer flights. Also I keep hearing about brushless motors with flight times. What are those and whats the difference. Also.. I have alot of questions... as you can see, Can you change the motors in the aerobird c. I am going. My main questions is on the flight times but have all types of questions. Can anyone help?

[agoorfin]

More cells will simply give you more volts and as a result, more speed. What you need for longer run times are packs made with cells that have a higher mAh rating.

[aeropal]

I am thinking about getting an aerobird challenger.

Also consider the Ready-To-Fly version of the EasyStar. The radio can easily be adapted to future models.

It seems different packs provide different outputs.

P-Calc will show the simulated results of different element changes.

I keep hearing about brushless motors

Electric Flight FAQ's

[Wingtips24]

Wow do you know where I can get some cell packs with higher ratings. I would love to have 25 minute flights. Also will it be heavier to have a higher rating. I was also wondering what makes one battery different from another. Seems like there are so many types?

[aeropal]

do you know where I can get some cell packs with higher ratings

Cheap Battery Packs is one resource. Other vendor links. Although very frustrating to use, there is also a "Our Sponsors" link at the top-right corner of this webpage.

[Ken-Ohki]

My aerobird flys 15 ta 20 minutes, but I also fly 1/2 power most of the time, and even no power at some points, The ABC glides real nice. Someplace I saw some 1100 mah batterys that would work with the ABC. The 6 cell packs will give longer run times then the 7 cell packs of the same capasity. But the 7 cell packs will fly faster. the additional 1.2 volts makes a big difference in power. The plane will also glide much better with the 6 cell pack. The best way to get more flytime is to go up high and glide, learn to find thermals and take advantage of natural lift. The second best way to get more flytime is to get more packs charge them at home or at other times when you are not flying,, then just peak them at the field wile you are flying. I use a duel charger that clips on my trucks battery, And have a splitter on my cigg ligher do can charge 4 packs at once. I usualy use 3 900 6 cell packs for my ABC and I use 2 7 cell 900 packs for my SS, Estarter, and Cobra. I generaly dont have to wait to go back up after landing, something is almost always peaked and ready to go. However, after 3 hours or so, I start to have to wait for them. The charge time starts to exceede the backup packs buffer flight time. I dont use my 7 cell pack on the abc. I have read it will burn out the motor conciderably quicker, especial if you are a full throttle type of flyer. You could change out the motor if you can get inside it to do the job.

The ABC can lift 1/2 pound easy as long as it is centered on the CG. the 7 cell packs naturaly lift better then the 6 cell packs. I havent tried it, but Im sure you could stick another standart 900mah battery in paralel for extended flight times. Just have to make a lead long enough to get to the CG for the second battery mount.

I saw someone suggest Lipolys for the ABC. The abc 6 cell 7.2 pack weighs 5 oz and gives 900 Mah,, the 7 cell 8.4 weighs just under 6 oz for 900 mah. you could get 3000 or so mah for under 6 oz at 7.4 volts with lipoly. But I think you might have a issue with the aerobirds BEC. Im not sure what its cutoff voltage is, and I know Lipollys are touchy about how far you can drain them, so might want to look into that some from a more knowelageble source on lipolys. Do not even concider Lipolly is you are still in your crashing allot phase. They are concidered a bit dangerouse, and you should definitly read up on them and there use and care.


What makes batterys differnt? whats inside of course. Differnet cemical compositions and such. How they are assembled, Different grade ingrediants all doing there little part.

Brushless motors are Ac motors driven by a special controler. they are more powerfull for less weight, and if im not mistaken less amp draw, but I could be wrong on that last one. Brushless on a aerobird would kinda be a wast of a 135 ta 200 brushless setup.

Building packs? Yes, you can build your own packs. Hope you are good with a soldering iron. you will need at least a 45 watt one, I use a 120 watt one for mine. Be carefull you do not mix battery types, you cant put nimhi and nicad together. Also make sure all the cells are of fairly equal age/use. Dont put old and new cells together. There is reading here on the forum about matching cells for a pack and building packs.Also do not put cells of differnt capasity together,, you cant put a 600 mah cell with a 900 one.


differnce between 6,7,8 or however many cells?
more cells = more power, more rpms more thrust.more wear and tear and less life on the motor. Most motors you are using now will be 6 volt motors. We run them at more then 6 volts to get teh preformance we need for flight. A 6 volt motor at 6 volts isnt much good to R/c pilots. but, a 6 volt motor at 7 or 8 or 12 volts can really deliver some power, but at a cost of motor life. generaly 6 cells at 900 mah will fly longer then 7 or 8 cells at 900 mah. But, the 7 or 8 cell packs will get you up there faster and let you fly on less throttle,, so with carefull management,, you can get longer flights. But not becuse its more volts so it will run longer. Becuse you can climb faster, and fly on less throttle.

Guess that addresses all your curent questions as well as additional comentary. This place thrives on questions, its why it is here.. There is already a large volume of information about the ABC and mods.

Now before I hit Post, Ill add but one more thing. 160 bucks or so will get you a aerobird complete. But for just a littel more money, say 210 or so, you can get put together a radio plane combo and have a radio you can move from plane to plane as you go,, the aerobirds radio is only good for a aerobird. You could hack it into another V-tail, but generaly its a 1 plane radio. If you are seriousely concidering keeping this as a hobby you might want to think a bit further down the road as to what your needs are, especialy if money is tight.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Man thanks for all the info I love reading this stuff, I learn so much. You answered so many of my questions. I was wondering about when you said that I could get a radio with the challenger if you meant in place of as in they will swap it out and charge me the difference or in addition two meaning will now have 2 radios. Cause I would certainly consider getting a diff radio if I could use it on another plane. I was looking into getting a slow stick next perhaps.
Also I know even less about radios can you recommend a decent one to start researching on and tell me what makes one good and what I should be looking for in a good radio that will take me down the road of rc planes. I was also wondering since the motors don't seem to be that expensive for the aerobird is therre anything else I can burn up by adding higher MAh. I am looking for a way to get 20 to 25 minutes. How would you go about doing it.
Are there any particular names brands and places I should look. I don't think I am quite ready to begin building my own batteys yet but I would love to find an off the shelf pack that would fit and give me 25 or more minutes of flight. Bye the way how does that setup you have work for charging on your truck you used alot of abbreviations for things I never heard of like BEC and lipolys. As you can see I am really really new at this. I am still in my crash stage though I finally think I am beginning to get the hang of it. I have read some of the mods for the aerobird such as the motor mount brace. Are there any other ones that you can think of off the top of your head to look out for?

[Ken-Ohki]

The radio for the ABC ( aerobird challenger ) is not movable from plane to plane. You need to buy a seperate radio ( that will not fly the ABC ) in order to fly other planes.. If you buy it seperatly, you can move it plane to plane, but not to planes that come with there own radio. ( in most cases ). hope thats clearer now.

I would look at a "Hitek Flash 5" for a radio, there are of course hundreds to choose from. But i like Hiteck. I ould suggest a min of 5 chan,, 4 chan maybe, but you are better off with 5 or even more chans on the radio. You could make due with a cheaper 3 chan radio, but, you will grow out of it and need to replace it pretty soon.

Lipoly is a specific type of battery. very high mah, very low weight, but they can explode and catch fire if not charged right,, drained to low, or crashed, or even just droped on the hard floor, definitly not for beginers. But always a option for the daring.

The BEC ( battery elimination circute ) tells your plane to turn the motor off when the battery gets to a certain level of discharge, but allows you to maintain control of your plane. It resurves voltage to run your control surfaces.

Adding MAH ( milliamp hours ) is adding capasity, and you will not burn anything out by adding a battery with more mah.. Voltage however is a different story.To much voltage and things will start to fry. I would not go over 8.4 on a aerobird. ( 7 cell pack ) You could fry the circuite bard in the ABC. I am not sure how much voltage you can pour into a ABC, but i know the 7 cell pack is acceptable.. I personly dont use the 7 cell in my ABC. DOnt need it... As far as batteries, You will not find much better for the ABC then what it comes with,,, there are packs for similure weights what supply a little more.. Learn to glide, and get more packs is your best, safest bet for more flight time.

The SS or "slow stick" is concidered one of the best beginer planes. I concider the ABC a good beginer plane as well. but the ABC is faster, requireing faster reflexes.. the Ss is slow and gives you more time to think wile flying.

as far as charging,,, I spent 69 bucks on a charger that will charge 2 packs at once,,,, it clips onto my battery inmy truck when i pop the hood. Then I put a splitter plug on my ciggarette lighter, so I can plug 2 chargers into the outlet instead of 1.. If you buy a charger, make sure it is a peak charger.





Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[rutat]

FWIW, That was a great answer! Nice to have folks here who share info.

[Wingtips24]

Okay thansk so much for breaking down the acronyms. I get it with the battery packs. I was wondering about charging them two. Is there some special way of charging ABC batteries specifically and other batteries generally that make them last longer in flight. I hear alot about "peaking them" befor flight. Does that just mean hitting them with juice for 10 or 20 miutes right before you fly to sort of top them off so to speak. Also with the transmitters the main question I had was wether I would recieve 2 transmitters or just be charged the difference of the original in the box aerobird tarmitter. ( i.e aerobird transmitter 30 buck s , Flash five = 70 differnce 40 more and I get one transmitter) or do I purchase a second one all together.
You mentioned that you can have 5 channels , I have even heard of 7, what one earth could you use the rest for, my guess is extra stuff like landing gears and such.
Looks like the tiger moth is also a great starter plane form what I have heard. Do you have a top 5 or 6 favorite and most highly recommended list you could share. I would love to do some research on them. Can a slow stick do aerobatics like loops. I saw a few videos of them flying.
By the way I really appreciate you taking out time to help a new winger get off the ground. Many of us new wanna be pilots look up in the sky and want to fly with you aces and its a real priveledge that this hobby has such a helpful network of support. A real drawwing point to the sport. Anyway I'll be here cooking up some more questions to ask, I am learning so much. I have read threads for 2 1/2 hours and did not even realize it.
Thaks again

[Ken-Ohki]

Battery care

there are many different opinions, and many little bits of fact that each can be interperated many ways. In general..

All Nicad packs and nimhi packs charge pretty much the same,, You can charge a nicad pack at a faster rate then nimhi. But Nicads and nimhi are very different batterys. Use a nimhi charger, or the nimhi setting to charge one. Now Lipoly, they require a special charger, and special care.

as a general rule, You will get better charges if you slow charge ( charge at much less then the batterys capasity ) but the effect of doing so isnt really that much,, a few min at best in a perfect world.

Peeking a pack is just putting a pack on the charger to top it off, rechargables lose power when they sit. Most of us charge at home before hand, then just top them off at the field to make sure they are as charged as possible.

Back to radios.. I still sence confusion..
The ABC comes with it own radio. You do not need to buy another to fly it. BUT. you may not use that radio to fly any other plane.. If you want to get another plane,, Like a slow stick, or a Estarter, or whatever,, You will have to buy a seperate radio. One that dosent belong to any specific plane. Once you buy a stand alone radio,, planes are pretty cheap. but your stand alone radio wont fly the ABC. I mentioned a "real" radio to you becuse you said funds were tight. If they are,, you might be better off forgetting the abc, and going with a "real" radio and a Slow stick or something. Hope I got it that tme

what do you need the chans for?
1 throttle
2 rudder
3 ailerons ( some setups require 2 channels for ailerons )
4 elivator
5 flaps
6 retractable landing gear
7 camera shutter
8 landing lights
9 Im sure there are moer things you could shove on a plane

The slow stick will do light aerobatics, Loops, Inverted flight, stalls, Corckscrew rolls, and several others.

Sugested planes.

SLow stick
ABC
E-Starter
Tiger Moth

Ive flown them all, they are all decent planes. There are of course many more that perhaps others will suggest.

You are more then welcome for the help. As you can see I can be a little long winded ;P But hopefully it is mostly usefull information to you. Getting others in the air is benificial to us all, the more of us there are, the more chances we have at places to fly and stuff.

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Ken
you dont have to worry about being long winded you can chat on as long as you want, I look forward to reading it when I check so please by all means chat away my friend. Yea I think I understand now about the radios. It was the not getting the Aerobird part I was missing. I thought I was going to have 2 controllers. You were talking about ditching the ABC idea all together. Ahhhhh I see.
With the battery charging are you saying that it is best to charge a bat for a short period of time say 15 minutes then stop then charge for 15 more minutes then stop so on and so on. What does that do. My guess is give it a rest and let the charge settle?? Also how do you know when to stop. I feel a battery charger recomendation commin on. I would imagin the peak charger you spoke of tells you when to quit. Do the make charges that takes breaks while it charges for you, that would be nifty. I guess you also have to be real good to controll all those diiferent channels. What is the difference between an aileron, flaps,and an elavator and which is where on the plane? By the way what would you do if you only have about 225 or so to spend, I got my heart all in a flutter over the ABC but at the same time I want to be wise. Do people tipically change the parts out of planes too like the transmitter or do you by separate inerds and just swap transmitters.
Also ( there is alot of also's have you noticed?) what do you think of the pico stick I saw it when i looked up the slow stick it was new. I also see that there are two diff motors available for the SS. Which do you recommend. I was thinking of going ahead and getting an SS and slowly putting it together as I learn on the Aerobird. Not sure but I have a bit of time as I don't yet have the money together. Any thoughts??

[Ken-Ohki]

ok now, we got the radio issue down. back to batterys.

I said you should slow charg them, way below the batterys capasity. That means that if it is a 900 mah pack, charging it at 100 mah will give a slightly better charge then charing it at 900 mah. at 100 mah it will take about 9 ta 10 hours to charge, at 900 mah it would take about a hour..I did not suggest charging for awile, stoping then starting again,, When you are charging, you should do it uninterupted. from dead to charged in 1 sitting. However..... Once you charge a pack it will loose voltage sitting there. SO, right before use, you put it on charge to top it off. Provided your charger is a peak charger,, it will stop charging all on its own. If you buy a non peak charger you are asking for problems and putting your packs at risk.

I am using a wattage duel variable rate peak charger. Its the only one I have or have used that is any real good, There are of course hudreds to choose from,, Just make sure it is a PEAK charger, Prefure it to have variable amps, and able to charge from 4 ta 10 cell packs. Not all chargers are created equal. I will point out here that the ABC comes with a suitable peak charger for itself.

a elivater gives you up and down control. and is on the tail
Ruder gives you left to right control . and is on the tail
throttle, well thats self explanitory.

Those are the basic controls

Ailerons give you roll control, and are on the wings
Flaps help you fly slower, land slower, and take off in a shorter distance , and are on the wings.

One you have a "Real" radio, swapping out componets is a common thing. Some people buy differnt flight packs for each plane. ( flight pack is a set of servos, and a reciver. the flight pack fits in the plane.) Some people set up each plane with its own servos, and swap out the reciver from plane to plane, and Yet others move the entire flightpack from plane to plane as they like. In all listed cases above, the same "real" radio can be used on many planes. ( one at a time of course ) This is the only downside of going with a ABC, the ABC flightpack does not move, it is permanant to the plane. You will have to rebuy a radio system to go with something like the SS IF you get the ABC.

I understand the picostick to be a indoor flyer. It tolerates even less wind then a SS. Mine came with the 350 motor C gearing. I have no complaints with it, I hear allot of people like the d gearing. The 400 will preform marginaly better, but should also last longer. ( that is not burn out as fast,,not fly longer on a charge,, in fact, it will fly less on a charge ) Yhe 400 will handle a 8 cell pack longer then the 350 or 300. But is also heavery.

I am on my way to work, so dont have time to supply links and exact prices on the web for a Ss setup . But, this is pretty close.

SS 35 bucks
5 chan hitek flash 5 with servos and reciver 165 ( expensive yes, but worth it )
( a 3 chan radio can be had for about 75 bucks if you cant swing the 5 chan )
15 amp esc 30 bucks or so.
( some use a 10, I use a 20, larger ESC's cost mroe but are more usefull later with other planes )
7 cell aerobird 900 man pack 30 bucks
( 6 and even 8 cell packs are used by others at Variable mah rating from 400 ta 1100 or more )
Peak charger 25 bucks and up
time spent in the air... Priceless ( hehe couldnt resist )

If you already own a aerobird, You will be able to reuse the charger and even the battery. a 6 cell will fly a SS but the 7 cell is more powerfull ( yes 8 is more powerfull too but will burn your motor out to fast for my taste ) So it might not be as costly as I have laid out. WHen you buy a new radio, it comes with a charger for itself, so dont worry about that. True,, this is a bit more costly then doing the aerobird. BUT. if you break the SS 35 bucks gets you a new one, and ther are a pile of planes you can buy for under 50 bucks and reuse all the radio/servo stuff, making your next plane so much more cheaper... ( cant do that with a ABC )

Time for me to head for work, I can hear the lobster callimg my name waiting for my attention. ( I work for a lobster broker on the coast ) I have got to knock together a seaplane to fly out there hehehe. Maybe it will scare some of the seagulls away..

Ken-Ohki

"I make things do what I want them to, The Hell with what they are designed to do."

[Wingtips24]

Decisions decisons, I see your point about comparing the ABC with the SS and its parts. It seems like from mant of the postings I read most folks can hardly pass up eventually getting an ABC even if they started somewhere else. It kinda makes me want it even more though I have now gotten interested in the idea of getting a few planes and building them as I more slowly get the parts to fit in them. I was reading the thread on the AB Xtreame aand I saw you mentioned about using gorilla glue and even mixng water in it to make it foam. What was that about. I was alos wondering what glues you use and for what purposes. I love 5 miute epoxy but I have learned that it is heavy and brittle. I too have become a master at reapir in my short career as a wannabe pilot. I have broken my yellow bee wing in 4 places and roipped the tail in half dislocated the boom, completley lost the front 2 inches of the plane in the the dirt ( could not even find the pieces ) and busted off the canopy( has none now )........ but she flies still moo haa haa haa! And to top it off on the second flight..... kidding that was a combination of about 12 flights. Anyway I have been trying to figure out which glues to use where. So far I have CA, Krazy Glue , Super Glue,and my beloved 5 minute Expoxy. I have seen that there is 5 minute 6, 15 and slow cure. Am I correct in thinking that the slower the cure the better the hold cause who would want slow cure just for the heck of it?
Particularly which glues work best on foam and plastic since those seem to be my biggest repairs? I have learned that glues really do add in weight, my plane is noticabl;e slower with the added weight. One fix I ws particularly proud of ( for strength not looks ) was when the boom broke I took a small amount of epoxy and put a thin coat just to barly freez it in place. The I took anothe small dab and lightly wet 1' befor the break and 1' afetr with expoxy and wrapped a small piece of duck tape around the wet epoxy. after that dried I encassed the duck tape in epoxy. Can you say strong! Oh yea heavy but strong, I look to stay in the air not look good for now.
So any repair techniques you can recommend would be helpful. I want to get an Estarter and SS and Tiher moth. Can you use the came inerds for all three? Oh and I love lobster by the way that made me hungry when you said that.

[Ken-Ohki]

Looks like it will be the ABC for you then, Dont get me wrong now,, I love my ABC, I just wanted to make sure you understuood the ramifications of that purchase as opposed to buying all componets seperatly. Im not sure id say most everyone eventualy get a ABC sooner or later. They definitly have some strong advantages. But I have heard more then one person say they love there ABC but wish they would have bought a radio and plane seperate in the long run. I dont regret buying my ABC, I knew before hand I would need a seperate radio to move furhter on in the hobby, But the ABC is a good value. I fly mine in winds in excess of 15 MPH. I remember when a 5 mile a hour wind made me scared to fly hehehe.

I almost cringed when I saw you mention the extream hehe. Stay clear of that bird until you have more stick time in a 3 chan or greater plane. Not for beginers. But, ill tell ya a secret about it, ( ok maybe not a secret ) the ABC and the ABX use the same radio, so you can buy a Extream fusilage,battery, wing and tail seperatly and use your old ABC radio as long as you get the extream on the same chan. ( the fusilage comes with the flight pack pre-installed ) Doing it this way will knock like 50 bucks off the price of the extream.

Most of my wing repairs on the ABC have been done souly with Scotch "mailing" tape. Pay close attention when buying tape, all tape is not created equal. I have repaired folded wings, and even severed wings with nothing but the tape. Flew the crap out of them, including the manuvers that folded the wings in the first place. It holds solid.

Glues and epoxy.
I love my 5 min epoxy too, I dont care how much weight it ads,But, it is also ridgid and non flexable, Only usefull in certain situations. You do have to remember that when gluing, you are adding weight ( ok ok, you knew that ) BUT,. you are also changing the center of gravity ( CG ) if you add weight to the back with a repair, you need to add some on the front to regain CG. very very small weight additions are probably not gonna mess with CG to to much,, but 2 or 3 start to add up. That tape and epoxy deal on your boom has definilty affected CG. Most often then not,, CG is not where the manufacturer says it is, Where they say it is, Is often more of a suggested starting point, You kinda have to mess with it to achieve best preformance.. Even if you think its flying good,, a slight CD adjustment could change it to flying great. Balance is very important.

I do not even own a bottle of CA. but it has its uses.
Now on to gorilla glue. This is a very (very) strong glue that dries semi flexable. It also foams wile it sets insuring it gets down into crevisis and gives you a good grip. And is Foam freindly. When using gorilla glue, the manufacturer recomends the thigns to be glued be damp., I discoverd for myself on the gorilla glue website that mixing it with water before aplication will make it foam more and set faster. Becuse the Extream was such a heavey bird, I used both the gorilla glue and the tape on the wing. I do not use crazy or super glue, they eat most foams and in my experience , they arent that strong compared to epoxy. Also, longer cure times usualy mean more strenght, sometimes depending on product more flexability, and less weight.

The SS, Estarter, Tigermoth and pretty much any other plane that dosent come with its own radio, can be flown on the same radio, reciever, ESC and servos. ( flightpack ) not all planes come with there own motors, but the GWS ones we are discusing do. Some planes require small or larger servos, but hs-55's are pretty much standart for planes like we are discussing.