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Old Dec 31, 2001, 06:12 PM
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Voyager Build Questions...I'm Pulling My Hair Out

Hi All,

I'm setting up my voyager and I'm having some "issues". Everything is completely stock (I ordered the CF Frames & have the 85 MG's, but I can't wait that long). This is my first attempt at CCPM.

Questions:

1 - How do you get an accurate pitch reading? There is so much play in the head that the gauge reads differently as you tilt the flybar, not to mention put any down pressure on the blade. I think I may be getting 0 - +17, can't be sure. I'm using a helimax gauge.

2 - What's with the play in the tail?? Has anyone found a way to remove the slop? The ball on the slider is too small for starters.

3 - When I run the head up I get a very pronounced wobble at about 1/4 stick, almost as if the main shaft was bent or the blades haven't straightened out (not the case). My Raptor does this but soon stops as I increase throttle. I'm affraid to increase throttle because the wobble is pretty severe & I'm affraid it will tip

Any thoughts?

Mike
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Old Dec 31, 2001, 06:41 PM
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eastern CT
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The pitch guage should read different as the flybar tilts,this is what a flybar does,it takes load off the servos by reacting to servo movement and tilting.The flybar tilt causes the pitch to increase on one side and decrease on the other(of the main blades).When you are setting the machine up you should lock the flybar level(90 degrees to the main shaft).
I dont see how you could have +-17 of pitch,there is not enough mixer/swashplate travel.Make sure the flybar is locked and the blades centered(undo the link to the grip and make the blade balance(flat pitch)this is a good place to start.IF you are just learning you don't need much negative pitch,put in a couple(-2 OR -3) Don't try fast forward flight like this, you won't get it down!
With the voyager, make sure that the blade speed is above about 1350 to prevent the wobbles.A big vibration at 1/4 stick seems like your blades are locked(not free to move forwards/backwards)The blade bolt should be just tite enough to keep the blades from moving when you tip the heli on its side with the blades front to back.Check this again and then rebalance the blades
If I misread your post and this is not what you are saying I apolagize,Keith
Ps the play in the tail on mine is minimal and works fine.
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Old Dec 31, 2001, 07:50 PM
Our Daddy and Heli Junkie
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I used slightly shorter servo arms and I had +15 degrees, so 17 may be possible.

You do need -3 to 4 degrees! I found out the hard way about that and the Idle up setting.

You can use the 85's now. Just make an adapter plate.

Are you using 8 cells? You won't get good HS on 7 at all.

Haven't heard of the tail issue. Mine works fine but the rotors are a tad small.
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Old Dec 31, 2001, 07:59 PM
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Johnrip got it handeled... The fore and aft movement of the blades is more correctly called "lead & lag"... Pretty normal for a machine, electric or IC to vibrate/wobble until the blades are in lead/lag...

What motor-esc are you running and how many cells... The stock motor & esc with 7 cells almost won't fly... Try 8 cells and you will be happier but still not as happy as brushless & bl esc on 10 cells...

It's a shame that JR won't sell the Voyager without the stock motor & esc for a better price...

I am running -8 to +9 with no problem... I replaced the stock tr pitch control wire with a CF pushrod (Ti ends w/rocket city ball links) and with a gy240 and Hitec 81, the heli is rock solid in HH mode... I was supprised that it even flies great in normal mode... What a great little gyro... I am running Hirobo Shuttle blades bushed for the 2.5mm bolts for the V-E & cut down to 71mm (stock is 65mm, I believe) which is basicly 1/4" longer than stock... These make a big improvement... You also will want to use a CF tail fin with the longer blades to help protect them... I have a couple of sets of MS 80mm tail blades cut down but have not flown them yet...

Hope this helps, e-mail me if I can be of assistance...

Happy New Year!!!
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Last edited by twguns; Dec 31, 2001 at 08:03 PM.
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Old Dec 31, 2001, 08:33 PM
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Johnrip

Hi,

How do I lock the flybar? I've never had to do this with my other helis. The Helimax gauge lines up with the flybar, regardless of it's position. Am I in the dark?
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Old Dec 31, 2001, 08:51 PM
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wobble

Also, the wobble is not due to lead/lag. The blades fall under their own weight (almost). Head speed or cell # don't have a lot to due with my problem because it is at about 1/4 stick (give or take 30%, stock motor & ESC).

This is a fairly severe wobble. Enough to tip the heli if it were any worse.
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Old Dec 31, 2001, 10:18 PM
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I know exactly what you are talking about.
I had difficulty setting the pitch on my VoyagerE also.
As soon as you lift up the blade and put some load on it the pitch reduces.
As for the wobble, I found it to be lack of RPM. I soon went brushless and now have eliminated the wobble. My Voyager is setup up on the bench with 15 degrees pitch and a Hacker 40-8L motor with 10 cells 1700mAh batteries, stock 15 pinion.
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Old Dec 31, 2001, 10:30 PM
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Indianapolis, IN USA
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If the blades will fall under their own weight, then I would say that they are too loose...

Believe me, all the wobble in a voyager is due to lack of head speed... You have to get the head speed up right away... I don't know how anyone who has run the throttle curve per JR instructions successfully... Most are running almost a full on throttle and then flying the collective... This is of course easier with the brushless esc ...

How many cells did you say you were running??? The V-E likes head speed!!!
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Old Jan 01, 2002, 12:24 AM
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Mississippi 31 years , Now Kotzebue , Alaska 12
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hi ,

I think he is having a balance problem , its the shakes not the wobbles, if its the shakes than its your blades , swap the blades around and see what she does , did you weigh the blades? is the CGs dead nuts with each other ?
( the wobbles !!!!!!!! ?????????) the fix ! take the head apart and use O-ring lubrication silicone base , { parker super o lube} that took 85 % of my wabbles out of my v Tony
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Old Jan 01, 2002, 02:43 AM
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WABBLES???????

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Old Jan 01, 2002, 01:00 PM
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Wabbles

OK, I finally got the nerve to push through the wobble at about 1/4 stick and it did clear up.

Let me try and clarify my problems.

I'm having problems getting a good reading with my pitch gauge. Is there a better one? How do I lock the flybar? Is there such a thing as a flybar lock?

The slop in the tail is due to movement perpendicular to the normal movement of the tail control lever. In other words, the screw doesn't hold the tail control lever tightly to the tail case. I understand it can't be really tight or it wouldn't be able to move. I'm not sure if any of this really matters in actual flight.

I'm running the stock motor & esc with standard servos (don't throw tomatoes, I'm waiting for the CF frames to come) with 8 cell 2400's. Someone said that JR's throttle curves won't work per the manual, what should I use?

I don't have a lot of neg pitch (maybe -1) and the link from swash to seesaw mixing arms is already less than 11mm. the mixing arms are not parallel to the see saw shaft at 11mm. How do I get more neg pitch without making these links shorter?

I'm not new to helis (I'm no expert), but I've never set up a CCPM machine. To make matters worse, I'm using an 8U so JR's directions aren't much help.

I've been trying to find my heli "niche" for about 2 years now. I'm a quadraplegic in a wheelchair so it is difficult start a glow heli. I thought a gasser would be easier so I built one. Not only was it difficult to start but I was scared to death of the thing. It is huge. Long story short, I'm trying out e helis to see if I can manage it any better. My problems aren't building or flying the heli, its carting them around and starting them.

Thanks for all the help. You guys are going to be really sick of me before I get this thing in the air!

Mike
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Old Jan 01, 2002, 02:09 PM
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Jimmy

I had the same headache when I set up my Voyager on my 8S. I found the settings somewhere on the web.

I've had a quick look around the PC and can't find them at the moment. If I still haven't found them by tomorrow, I'll copy them down off my TX.

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Old Jan 01, 2002, 03:55 PM
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Indianapolis, IN USA
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I have found the Vario pitch gauge to be the best for me... It's available from www.ronlund.com ... I use a "line level" I got at a home building supply center to hang on the flybar and then level and clamp into position with an adjustable dial indicator stand... This holds the flybar level while I adjust the pitch throughout its range with the Vario gauge... I have a Helimax I would sell if I found anyone who wanted it...

There are flybar locks available from a few people, I think MinAir makes one and others... Just have never bothered to get one... They clamp onto the boom and then adjust to lock the flybar level...

As for your tail pitch bellcrank, That is a common problem... I don't know how most have solved this or maybe they just put up with it... I drilled out the screw hole (all the way thru) with a 1/16" drill and then ran a 2mm tap thru... I then used a 2mm x 16mm screw up form the bottom with a jam nut on top... A drop of blue thread lock on the nut is good... You can now adjust the slop out of the bellcrank without locking it up...

As for the 8U radio I can't help... I fly JR but if you were to set up your throttle in normal with a 0-70-80-85-100 curve, it would probably work pretty good for a start...

It will crank the head speed up, but that is what this little bird wants... You'll effectively be flying the collective...


Hope this helps...
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Old Jan 01, 2002, 04:05 PM
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Thanks

I couldn't decide what to do: Throw the Voyager in the trash, OR, take it outside and try to hover.

Well, I didn't throw it out. She took off without any problems. I know that she is way overweight with standard servos, but she actually hovered at about 70%. I was surprised at how stable it is. As soon as I get a decent pitch gauge I'll try some FF.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

BTW can anyone tell me if it is ok to charge an 8 cell 2400 pack at 5 amps? The charger is an Astroflight 112D. 5 amps is the chargers max.

Mike
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Old Jan 01, 2002, 07:05 PM
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Go for it... 5A OK...
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