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Old Aug 22, 2014, 05:44 AM
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Dinosaurs Clashing with Noobs - Rise of the RTF multis

With the recent take off in popularity of accessible products such as the DJI Phantom there is a whole new group of users emerging.
They are not striving to be professional R/C pilots and they are not into painting model trains, they simply try to capitalize on a new perspective in recording images.

Coincidentally this new big group of noob users, who try to use their VISA card to skip straight to idiot-proof flight controllers, use technology that overlaps with a pre-existing group of basement dwelling RC-enthusiasts (that's you guys here on RCGroups).

So everyone needs to remember there are categorically two major differentiating camps of quad pilots out there right now.

Anyway, I'm from the noob camp. I'm sick of you old dinosaurs nitpicking about technical details. I want to leapfrog you all and get my cam into the air.
I don't see why I should waste 1-2 years of time to learn flying a quad when there is GPS and ATTI mode built into each of them nowadays.
I'm willing to throw money to make that happen.

However I still might have questions and I still need a community to ask questions and troubleshoot problems.
For example I'm looking for DJI Phantom add-ons but I'm lost, I don't know which are the right items because I have no technical background.

Anyway, so where can I find a like-minded community? I'm sick of RCGroups.





Quote from a typical basement dwelling RC enthusiast:
"Any RTF multicopter can go to hell. If you didn't build it you shouldn't be allowed to fly it. This is why the FAA has gone ape sh*t. Because of retards who buy RTF multis."

Quote from a typical noob user:
"It makes DIY folks mad and they lash out saying it's a toy, they can build something better for cheaper, and yada yada yada....but the truth is this; if they could build something better and sell it for cheaper they would, and they would be rich because of it. But they can't. So in your warped logic the best pilots, drivers & operators of machines in the world have to build their own?? i think not"
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 06:23 AM
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United States, MO, Kingsville
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Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

It is really pretty simple, this stuff IS DANGEROUS. You have props spinning very fast, made of carbon fiber.....IIRC a very advanced heli pilot was killed not too long ago after he was struck with his heli. And you want to rely upon a $200 part to do all the flying for you. It is not fool proof, so there has to be some human skill there.

I enjoy the quads that fly themselves, but you do need to have the skill set to fly it yourself, just incase something happens.

This is just the way the hobby is going and it is not too different from foam and electric from just 10-12 short years ago....the same thing was said of people that flew electric foam models. The snobbery of "slimmer" flyers was just amazing.....and I admit I was one of them (yes I am an old guy and started flying in the early 80's.

This is just the next step. It will all mesh out....but where most of those that have been in the hobby for a very long time we know what these things can do, and we usually don't fly them over football games or major highways putting a great many people in danger.

As to where you can find a like minded community where they don't care anything about safety skill or ability......I really don't know....but good luck to you and please let me know where they are.....I don't want to be anywhere around them.
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Anyway, so where can I find a like-minded community? I'm sick of RCGroups.
Perhaps you should ask Google or just visit www.dji.com and do some research on your own instead of insulting the group that you are sick of. This seems like an odd way to approach your problem of inexperience.
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnRichards View Post
Anyway, so where can I find a like-minded community? I'm sick of RCGroups.
Quite happy to help. Here you go:

http://www.reddit.com/r/upskirt/

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Old Aug 22, 2014, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

It is really pretty simple, this stuff IS DANGEROUS. You have props spinning very fast, made of carbon fiber.....IIRC a very advanced heli pilot was killed not too long ago after he was struck with his heli. And you want to rely upon a $200 part to do all the flying for you. It is not fool proof, so there has to be some human skill there.

I enjoy the quads that fly themselves, but you do need to have the skill set to fly it yourself, just incase something happens.

This is just the way the hobby is going and it is not too different from foam and electric from just 10-12 short years ago....the same thing was said of people that flew electric foam models. The snobbery of "slimmer" flyers was just amazing.....and I admit I was one of them (yes I am an old guy and started flying in the early 80's.

This is just the next step. It will all mesh out....but where most of those that have been in the hobby for a very long time we know what these things can do, and we usually don't fly them over football games or major highways putting a great many people in danger.

As to where you can find a like minded community where they don't care anything about safety skill or ability......I really don't know....but good luck to you and please let me know where they are.....I don't want to be anywhere around them.
I really appreciate your valuable input.
I'm all for safety myself and I agree with you on that basis.

Here is where I vehemently disagree with you:
You are thinking inside a box.
Also, your arguments are very irrational, that's probably because it's your longterm hobby.

Look, I'm from the "new generation". I'm 24 years old and I call myself a professional computer programmer. I love to rely on computers, and the whole world already relies more on them than you would think. If something goes wrong with computers there are much worse things that can happen compared to drone accidents. Computers are safe and reliable.
I vehemently disagree that we need skillful pilots in case something happens. What we need is better software(!) and better hardware. Humans can do mistakes, computers can't (tested software).

Let's try to think big, outside the box. Amazon will deliver items with drones, I'm sure you know that.
Do you think Amazon will have a bunch of pro-pilots who will fly the drones manually?
Those are the kind of jobs that humans will never be able to do as good and efficient as computers.
I bet with you $100 that all of those drones will fly completely automatic. Amazons warehouses are already automatic, I'm sure the drone will just pick up the package by it's own without any human interaction whatsoever.
And this drone will fly over roads, humans, and what not.
THIS is the future! THIS is the way to go.
Learning to fly manually with a $50 copter and then after 1 year playing with a phantom is NOT the way to go.
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DParker View Post
Perhaps you should ask Google or just visit www.dji.com and do some research on your own instead of insulting the group that you are sick of. This seems like an odd way to approach your problem of inexperience.
You really make me feel ashamed of myself
I'm sorry if I was insulting. I had another account here in the past and I remember that a lot of folks here are pretty rough so I didn't choose my nicest tone.
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 09:07 AM
Manual will not flyaway :D
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ok from that bad start then lets have a turn around, we are not all DIY arrogant folks on here
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 09:13 AM
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And if it hadnt been for computer assisted flying we would still be staring at the moon wondering what it would be like to land there. There is no shame in using gps or self leveling flight characteristics in anything that lifts off the ground IMO.
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 09:46 AM
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Well, the moon shots had triple redundant computers, hobby drones usually have no redundancy. They also have multiple single points of failure, some of which are irrecoverable, but some of which can be recovered from if the pilot has the necessary skills. In addition, pilots who have an attitude of "I don't want to learn about this I just want to fly" are unlikely to know the safety code or pay sufficient attention to safety - check your equipment before each flight,don't fly over crowds, etc.
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 10:11 AM
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I understand, you are 24, have not done this for a long time and yet know everything about it.

I tried to give you real world experience, but like most kids you choose to discount those years of experience and learn things the hard way.

good luck, and I hope you don't hurt anyone along the way, or damage our hobby that some of us have worked years to build....your attitude is the issue and like others have said, I doubt you will go far with it.

BTW I have also done computers longer then you have been alive, there are always issues that come up that the program/hardware can not deal with.....this is why the human brain will always be better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRichards View Post
I really appreciate your valuable input.
I'm all for safety myself and I agree with you on that basis.

Here is where I vehemently disagree with you:
You are thinking inside a box.
Also, your arguments are very irrational, that's probably because it's your longterm hobby.

Look, I'm from the "new generation". I'm 24 years old and I call myself a professional computer programmer. I love to rely on computers, and the whole world already relies more on them than you would think. If something goes wrong with computers there are much worse things that can happen compared to drone accidents. Computers are safe and reliable.
I vehemently disagree that we need skillful pilots in case something happens. What we need is better software(!) and better hardware. Humans can do mistakes, computers can't (tested software).

Let's try to think big, outside the box. Amazon will deliver items with drones, I'm sure you know that.
Do you think Amazon will have a bunch of pro-pilots who will fly the drones manually?
Those are the kind of jobs that humans will never be able to do as good and efficient as computers.
I bet with you $100 that all of those drones will fly completely automatic. Amazons warehouses are already automatic, I'm sure the drone will just pick up the package by it's own without any human interaction whatsoever.
And this drone will fly over roads, humans, and what not.
THIS is the future! THIS is the way to go.
Learning to fly manually with a $50 copter and then after 1 year playing with a phantom is NOT the way to go.
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Resurgam View Post
Well, the moon shots had triple redundant computers, hobby drones usually have no redundancy. They also have multiple single points of failure, some of which are irrecoverable, but some of which can be recovered from if the pilot has the necessary skills. In addition, pilots who have an attitude of "I don't want to learn about this I just want to fly" are unlikely to know the safety code or pay sufficient attention to safety - check your equipment before each flight,don't fly over crowds, etc.
Now look - I will repeat myself from earlier postings - I agree with you but this is the wrong way to approach this. Then let's implement redundancy. I'm not saying that drones in it's current forms are perfect, they aren't at all!
Implementing redundancy would be more efficient than training 1000000 noobs who get into this.
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
I understand, you are 24, have not done this for a long time and yet know everything about it.

I tried to give you real world experience, but like most kids you choose to discount those years of experience and learn things the hard way.

good luck, and I hope you don't hurt anyone along the way, or damage our hobby that some of us have worked years to build....your attitude is the issue and like others have said, I doubt you will go far with it.

BTW I have also done computers longer then you have been alive, there are always issues that come up that the program/hardware can not deal with.....this is why the human brain will always be better.
It's not just about me, it's about millions of other noobs who WILL get into this due to the broad marketing of RTF drones. It's already too late.
I'm pretty sure that this issue will fix itself, tons of money will poor to DJI, in turn they will have better research and better products. Capitalism at it's best.

Good luck, don't hurt anybody, damage the hobby.. yada yada yada.. JAWN! Please refer to my AMAZON example above. Software is the future, not skills.
Enjoy painting your model trains while I will leapfrog your R/C skills with efficient computer software.
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 10:24 AM
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Actually, are you guys AGAINST COMMERCIAL DRONES? Drones that will fly automatically? Because there won't be a skillful pilot around.
If you aren't against autonomous commercial drones, so you just have just prejudices for noobs?
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 10:41 AM
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United States, MD, Fort Washington
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anything can and will fail at some point.
the best computer can do nothing against things like the PSU failing, and the user didnt know a UPS would have been a good idea,
because he/she didnt wanna spend the time to "learn"...

lets say your life would depend on the drone working, think you would approach it the same way? doubt it.

look at car gps, it works and is reliable, but you still see people driving into the river cause they (completely) rely on the system.
im not saying you need to spend years learning, but i started driving without any assist systems on the car (abs/esp and so), so i KNOW how to react when the car looses grip on a slippery road to prevent an accident, because at that moment i dont have the time to "think" about what to do (saved my life twice already).

same reason why police/military/doctors etc. train things repeatedly all the time.
if you've done stuff 100 times and you need to do it when it matters,...
my quad lost lift once and flipped over (most of them a "top heavy" ), since im not new to RC/flying, i quickly applied throttle and it flipped back and got it under control about 10ft off the ground.
without any experience it would have continued to drop like a stone and hit a car/someone...

be a noob, just dont be stupid...
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Old Aug 22, 2014, 10:53 AM
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All I will say is that the various governments are becoming quite interested in the little "drones" RC aircraft. So as more and more people do stuff stupid with the things, then it becomes more and more likely the governments will do something about it. Unfortunately we are going to really regret what the government decides to do about it all. We could wind up like Bahrain and having all RC aircraft banned. Remember the rest of the population only sees these as toys and of no interest to the economy in general, so they could easily kill it all off. We do have a large number of anti-terrorist paranoid types in the government that want tight controls on everything.

I think that having new people around is good, especially thinking outside of the box, so to speak. It is a good thing. It just needs to be done safely though.
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Last edited by earlwb; Aug 22, 2014 at 10:55 AM. Reason: add more info
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