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Old Apr 03, 2004, 11:21 PM
Registered User
Hollister, CA
Joined Sep 2003
457 Posts
MicRotex and CC10 not working correctly

OK Folks,
I picked up a MicRotex 18 Turn and Phoenix 10 for my GWS TM.

Motor installed and spools up, but I notice a problem when running at mid-high throttle. I am running 2S1P and 3S1p LiPo batteries.

When the amp pull gets beyong 2.5-3ish, the voltage of my pack starts to drop significantly and depending on the prop the motor may shut down if I push it to 4.5-5A. The light starts blinking on my phoenix, and I have to drop the stick to rearm the throttle. Now, I have the soft shutdown on low voltage, so it shouldn't be a low voltage situation.

There are two problems here...

1. -Why is this combo pulling my voltage down soooo much. No, It isn't my packs. I have tried an Etec 1200 2S1P, Kokam 1500 3S1P and a brand new Apogee 830 3S1P. All get pulled down well below 9.5V under a 4.5-6A load. NOT RIGHT.

2. -Why is my phoenix shutting down. The light is blinking but I cannot tell why.

NOTE: The bell housing on my outrunner needed loctite to keep it in place, so it is now locked in place, and is not shifting on the shaft under load.

I have though of trying another ESC, but it would entail ripping a plane apart and desoldering it. Ugh.

Any Ideas???

Chris.
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Old Apr 04, 2004, 05:21 AM
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Steve_Bennington's Avatar
King's Lynn,Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
423 Posts
Is your charger working correctly????

To see pack volts drop off like that at only 5A either indicates faulty cells in the pack, or insufficiently charged cells.....

Also, V1.01 of the PHX link software seems to set an LVC of 9.7v regardless of the settings you program it with. this would exhibit the same behaviour as you are seeing

Regards,

Steve
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Old Apr 04, 2004, 12:54 PM
Registered User
Hollister, CA
Joined Sep 2003
457 Posts
Well, I don't have the Phoenix programmer, I just listen for beeps :-)

And my charger must be working correctly for my other planes! I just flew my Alfa P47 for 15 minutes of hard throttle with my RZ2500 and Kokam's.

I don't think it is the charger, but I am at a loss. Perhaps today I will get out the soldering iron and switch ESC's.....

Chris
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Old Apr 04, 2004, 06:33 PM
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Woodridge, Illinois
Joined May 2000
4,478 Posts
I just received my Microtex motor the other day and bench tested it with my PHX10. I am experiencing the exact same thing you are Chris. I've reprogrammed my PHX10 3 times and still get the same thing. I was testing it with a 9x4.7 and went down to a 8x4.3 and it got better but still not gone. I'm not exceeding 3-4 amps when it shuts down. I was going to try a Jeti next. I think a call into Sal at NESail is in order...
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Old Apr 04, 2004, 08:39 PM
TeamZiering
enigmabomb's Avatar
Chandler, AZ
Joined Mar 2002
1,859 Posts
Sal is replacing the Phoenix controllers with TMM controllers in the orders he's shipping out now until castle puts out an update to the 10's. I'd check to see what is up with him.

-Josh
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Old Apr 05, 2004, 06:51 PM
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Hollister, CA
Joined Sep 2003
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OK, I just tried my CC PHoenix 25 and had the exact same problem. This really "feels" like a controller based failure. I would guess the software in my 25 is similar to the software in my 10.

Sal C.
Please update me with your findings on the Jeti. I tried adjusting the timing to all 3 options to no avail. I did find that on the softest start setting it fired up nicer, but still shuts down way too early, regardless of prop selection.

Although I hate to be a bad omen on you, I am ecstatic that I am not the only one experiencing this problem!!!

I crash landed the other day because of this, so I wont fly now until it is resolved.

Chris
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Old Apr 05, 2004, 06:58 PM
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Helena, MT
Joined Feb 2003
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Hopefully CC will fix this problem - their controller is a great fit for this motor in terms of amps and its weight/size.
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Old Apr 05, 2004, 07:35 PM
MKH
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Ohio
Joined Mar 2000
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Has anyone called or emailed Patrick at Castle yet? I'd like to hear the outcome of this, as I have plans for a Microtex in the near future, and I really prefer Castle esc's. Keep us posted please.

MKH
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Old Apr 05, 2004, 07:47 PM
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Woodridge, Illinois
Joined May 2000
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Has anyone else noticed on the Microtex that the bell rotates while the shaft is stationary? It doesn't take much resistance to hold it either.
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Old Apr 05, 2004, 08:54 PM
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Helena, MT
Joined Feb 2003
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I remember some posts about that Sal. The fix seems to be to carefully use green loctite to secure the bell. This should be relayed to the manafacturer so that they correct it.

BTW I posted the CC problem on their vendor forum area. Check it to see their response.
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Old Apr 05, 2004, 08:59 PM
MKH
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Ohio
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Quote:
Originally posted by LTChip
BTW I posted the CC problem on their vendor forum area. Check it to see their response.
I forgot Patrick is probably just getting home from the Toledo show, so it may take a day or two to get a response from him. Shoulda thought of that before I posted!
MKH
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Old Apr 05, 2004, 09:26 PM
LKC
must have been a glitch !
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Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Feb 2003
946 Posts
POSSIBLE FIX !

Hi guys !

I have the MicRotex and PH 10 combo running a 8x4.3 prop and 3s-340 Kokams. I was experiencing a similar problem. The motor ran fine even up to full throttle. The problem occured if I throttled up too quickly. The motor would stutter, like it couldn't keep up with the ESC. Then the ESC would shut it down.
So I fiddled around with the programming. I brought a PH link usb programmer which allowed quick re-programming. I had to update the software to get it to work, but finally was able to manipulate the features. I tried a number of different settings but couldn't resolve the problem.

I thought maybe it was something else ???

I noticed my motor would twist slightly when throttleing, so I re-mounted my motor in a more secure manner, now there isn't any slop. I am using the Liteflightrc technique with two carbon rods kevlar wrapped to the collar. Anyway I retried it and it still stuttered but not as bad, so I re-did the programming to "Soft start" and "high advance" timing. It seems to have fixed the problem.Originally I didn't think soft start was desirable for 3D flying, but the throttle responce it definately adequate. I flew 3 pack throught and the motor didn't stutter at all. Now I really love this little motor.... Oh yeah it's mounted on a 6 Oz Edge Shockflyer. Having a blast !!!

Hope this helps you guy out, I am interested in hearing if it solves your problems.

Let me know.
Luke
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Old Apr 05, 2004, 09:29 PM
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Sal C's Avatar
Woodridge, Illinois
Joined May 2000
4,478 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by akeyzoo
...Sal C.
Please update me with your findings on the Jeti. I tried adjusting the timing to all 3 options to no avail. I did find that on the softest start setting it fired up nicer, but still shuts down way too early, regardless of prop selection....
I tried my Jeti 18 and it spools up nicely but is making noise at about 3/4 to full throttle. I'm thinking that may be the loose bell on the shaft. I've got some loctite on there now...
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Old Apr 06, 2004, 09:42 AM
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Hollister, CA
Joined Sep 2003
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Luke,
Did you upgrade the software ON the ESC? If so, maybe that was part of this fix. I have tried soft start and the advanced timing myself, and THOUGHT it helped. It only helped a little.

That said, I don't have the USB link thingy, so I cant upgrade my ESC's software level....


ALL -
I had to green loctite mine for sure, that is definitely a manufacturing defect.

SAL -
Did it want to shut down at all? Did the Jeti seem to do the trick? I noticed when my endbell was loose it would slip under 1/2-3/4 throttle with the prop installed.

Chris
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Old Apr 06, 2004, 10:07 AM
LKC
must have been a glitch !
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Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Feb 2003
946 Posts
akeyzoo,

Yes I had to upgrade the Software on the ESC in order to get the USB link to work. So it may have been part of the fix.

I also E-mail Shawn @ Castle creations and he "Have you tried fast start, in combination with the low timing advance? That particular setting is best for motors that may have less than optimal winding geometries. " Haven't tried that conbination yet, but I am happy with the performance with soft start and high advance timing.
I think a lot of my problem was my motor mount was twisting under high torque. when the motor stutter slightly the motor mount would twist back and cause the timing to be further out. With my new more ridgid mount and the soft start and advanced timing it runs a lot smoother. Even when I give full throttle burst the power comes on fairly quickly and smoothly.

Let me know if it help at all.

Oh yeah the USB link is pretty cool. I can quickly hook it up and review or change setting as easily as clicking with the mouse. No more waiting for the beeps and flashes. Now I just need to work out how to get my PC to the field..lol or maybe a Palm or Lap top..mmm

Good luck
Luke
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