Complete Guide to Lithium Polymer Batteries and LiPo Failure Reports - Page 3

TIA · May 11, 2006, 12:57 PM

Osprey,

I had an ETec 3s 1200mAh pack in storage that did the same thing only it was stored in a nice cool garage. I just chalked it off to the pack not being used for two months and the voltage got too low to which it went bad. I guess the pack could have had a bad cel from the start but never thought that much into it.

Anyway that is a possibility since I have like 10 Lipo packs right now and only that one puffed on me.

Reno.

jmralves · May 11, 2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry3215

Do NOT put it in salt water.

Larry

Excuse for my lack of knowledge about lipos chemistry, but I think the salt water use is to extract the Litium ions from the lipo.
Obviously, we can't put a charged lipo pack in salt water, mainly for two reasons, the salt water works as a shunt and do a short circuit to the lipo pack and in this process happen the hidrolisis of the water with the formation of hidrogenium, a explosive gas.

I remember I read somewhere, that we should do a very slow discharge of the lipo (don't remember if complete or not) and only then put it in salt water, do some puncture work in the pack to allow the exit of the litium ions to the water (maybe the sodium ions of the salt replace the litium ions in the lipo, converting the lipo in a mass of inofensive salt)

For all the readers of this post, I can't defend what I write here, take this information with reserv, I gladely change or erase the all post if I am wrong.

This the way I deal with faulty lipos, with good results so far, but keep in mind that I am not sure that this the right way, I will change my procedure if someone demonstrate I'm wrong.

Jorge

birdlives1955 · May 12, 2006, 12:36 AM

I've been meaning to ask someone about this, but it has kept slipping my mind until now. I've only got one li-po pack, and I keep it stored in a little Sentry fire-safe box I got at an office supply store, and you can only open the box with a key. It seems like a pretty stout little box and the fire-proof material it's made out of is very thick. The thing is, I'm relatively new to li-pos in general, so I was wondering, is the fire-proof box idea something that's generally accepted as safe for li-po pack storage?

I'm generally not paranoid about these types of things, but I just want to make sure that it's safe because I store the packs in the box in my room indoors. I've heard so much about the instability of lithium-polymer batteries and I just wanted to make sure I'm doing the right thing for safety.

I leave the pack inside my room and since I'm not there most of the day, I just wanted to make sure that if something were to happen to the pack while I'm away from my room, that it would be safely contained in this fire-proof box. Is is okay for me to leave it in there? I also charge the pack in the fire-proof box, and right now I'm at college so I have to charge indoors, but I monitor the charge the whole time and I don't even leave the room for a minute. I also never charge the pack at more than its C rating, so it should be in pretty good shape.

Thanks for the help!

-Matt

hall woo · May 12, 2006, 10:55 AM

LIPOs R not unstable, it's the people who r using them the wrong way or any way

U cannot overwork them and yes they do need rest like U 8 hours of sleep will be fine

mrm1 · May 12, 2006, 12:12 PM

agreed with mister hall,

got one word for you .... cell phone

I know I will take the "your being irresponsible" beating for that, but all I am saying is no one thinks twice about sleeping next to one, leaving them in hot cars, throwing them around etc.

I would NEVER do that to an RC Lipo, not the same protection circuits. But lets face it, people abuse cell phone Li-ions and Lipos. So would not call it unstable, just do it responsibly.

birdlives1955 · May 12, 2006, 03:25 PM

Hhhhmmm, Okay thanks for the help guys! I appreciate it. I mean, I know it might not be the best idea to sleep next to my li-po box, but then again I'd want to be the first one to know about it if something were to happen to them while I was asleep. However I just found a unique safety addition that anyone can make to their li-po storage box.

My box is supposedly fire-proof already, however if the cells were to somehow spontaneously ignite, I would want to the fire to smothered as soon as possible. My friend Paul keeps his li-pos in a barbecue grill outside, and he said that he tapes a larger ziploc bag full of dirt or sand to the top of his storage place, directly above the li-pos. That way, if the packs do ever ignite, the plastic of the ziploc bag will melt and drop all of the dirt or sand on the fire, hopefully smothering it before it gets out of control. I thought this was good idea and I will defintely try to do this myself, I just thought I'd share it with you guys in case anyone was interested.

-Matt

mrm1 · May 13, 2006, 04:14 AM

you can also charge them in a bucket of sand with a sand bag on top

Osprey Engineer · May 15, 2006, 12:43 PM

Typo in my post (#28). It is 11.98, not 12.98.

Thanks for your replies. I never thought about liability when shipping a defective battery.

So I am not sure which cell is bad since they are all within 0.01 V of each other. That was my reasoning for charging the pack. Perhaps the one that is bad will not hold the same charge.

Is there a way to tell which one/ones are bad without charging it. Can I do a discharge capacity test with the battery in it's current state? I'll have to search the posts to see how to do that unless anyone wants to post the proceedure here. I have a digital volt meter. It is a pretty decent one. Can that be used?

Thanks again.

Larry3215 · May 15, 2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osprey Engineer

Typo in my post (#28). It is 11.98, not 12.98.

Thanks for your replies. I never thought about liability when shipping a defective battery.

So I am not sure which cell is bad since they are all within 0.01 V of each other. That was my reasoning for charging the pack. Perhaps the one that is bad will not hold the same charge.

Is there a way to tell which one/ones are bad without charging it. Can I do a discharge capacity test with the battery in it's current state? I'll have to search the posts to see how to do that unless anyone wants to post the proceedure here. I have a digital volt meter. It is a pretty decent one. Can that be used?

Thanks again.

This really isnt the best place for this particular discussion. We are cluttering up this thread with off-topic things.

How about starting a new thread with that question?

You should get more replys and help too. Post a link here as well and I will try to answer in the new thread.

Thanks,

Larry

Raketemensch · May 29, 2006, 11:53 PM

I don't worry about my laptop bursting into flames, nor my cell phone, and I charge them both haphazardly and whenever I actually remember to. What's keeping us from doing that with r/c power?

aeajr · May 30, 2006, 02:48 AM

You don't discharge and charge your lipos in your computer at the rates we discharge and charge ours. And you can't change the charge settings or over draw them with your computer either. It won't let you.

On the other hand, here you can draw too much, charge too fast, crash, and otherwise abuse the lipos in your planes.

And hopefully you don't crash your hard drive, physically, the way our planes do, sometimes.

Big difference.

Raketemensch · May 30, 2006, 10:37 AM

Well, I knew there was definitely a difference, I just wasn't sure what it was. Thanks for pointing it out.

- Raketemensch

Andrew McGregor · Jun 20, 2006, 04:24 AM

I expect that a cellphone repair place will take a used, dead lipo of whatever description and recycle the lithium properly, and they certainly have the means to transport damaged lipos safely.

gmyers143 · Jun 20, 2006, 11:20 AM

I am currently charging my Lipo's with a triton charger. This charger does not have the ability to balance charge single cells within the pack. Most of my packs are 3 cells and have a balance connector. Does anyone know if an adapter can be made to charge each cell in the pack individually?

Mark Winstanley · Jun 25, 2006, 10:07 AM

I just (yesterday) bought a battery equalizer that is fitted between the GP Triton Charger and the Battery. You also have to fit balacing leads to the Lipo in order to plug into the balancer. I was able to do this myself (it is not rocket science but you myst be careful not to short out the cells. The balancer did identify out of balance cells and charged accordingly.

The Equalizer is made by Robbe and cost approx 26 Euro which would be about $30. It can handle up to 5 cells.

The part number is 8446 and should be available in the US.

Mark.

May 29, 2006, 11:53 PM	#40
Raketemensch Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 10	But why LiPo instead of LiIon? I don't worry about my laptop bursting into flames, nor my cell phone, and I charge them both haphazardly and whenever I actually remember to. What's keeping us from doing that with r/c power?

Jun 25, 2006, 10:07 AM	#45
Mark Winstanley Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany/Cologne for a while Posts: 383	LiPo Balancer I just (yesterday) bought a battery equalizer that is fitted between the GP Triton Charger and the Battery. You also have to fit balacing leads to the Lipo in order to plug into the balancer. I was able to do this myself (it is not rocket science but you myst be careful not to short out the cells. The balancer did identify out of balance cells and charged accordingly. The Equalizer is made by Robbe and cost approx 26 Euro which would be about $30. It can handle up to 5 cells. The part number is 8446 and should be available in the US. Mark.

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May 11, 2006, 12:57 PM	#31
TIA Registered abUser Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,091	Osprey, I had an ETec 3s 1200mAh pack in storage that did the same thing only it was stored in a nice cool garage. I just chalked it off to the pack not being used for two months and the voltage got too low to which it went bad. I guess the pack could have had a bad cel from the start but never thought that much into it. Anyway that is a possibility since I have like 10 Lipo packs right now and only that one puffed on me. Reno.

May 12, 2006, 12:36 AM	#33
birdlives1955 That thing's operational! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Orleans/Dallas Posts: 4,695	I've been meaning to ask someone about this, but it has kept slipping my mind until now. I've only got one li-po pack, and I keep it stored in a little Sentry fire-safe box I got at an office supply store, and you can only open the box with a key. It seems like a pretty stout little box and the fire-proof material it's made out of is very thick. The thing is, I'm relatively new to li-pos in general, so I was wondering, is the fire-proof box idea something that's generally accepted as safe for li-po pack storage? I'm generally not paranoid about these types of things, but I just want to make sure that it's safe because I store the packs in the box in my room indoors. I've heard so much about the instability of lithium-polymer batteries and I just wanted to make sure I'm doing the right thing for safety. I leave the pack inside my room and since I'm not there most of the day, I just wanted to make sure that if something were to happen to the pack while I'm away from my room, that it would be safely contained in this fire-proof box. Is is okay for me to leave it in there? I also charge the pack in the fire-proof box, and right now I'm at college so I have to charge indoors, but I monitor the charge the whole time and I don't even leave the room for a minute. I also never charge the pack at more than its C rating, so it should be in pretty good shape. Thanks for the help! -Matt

May 12, 2006, 10:55 AM	#34
hall woo Permanently Banned Join Date: May 2003 Location: San Jose Ca / RSA flyer Posts: 8,030	LIPOs R not unstable, it's the people who r using them the wrong way or any way U cannot overwork them and yes they do need rest like U 8 hours of sleep will be fine

May 12, 2006, 12:12 PM	#35
mrm1 Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: North Central Florida Posts: 4,678	agreed with mister hall, got one word for you .... cell phone I know I will take the "your being irresponsible" beating for that, but all I am saying is no one thinks twice about sleeping next to one, leaving them in hot cars, throwing them around etc. I would NEVER do that to an RC Lipo, not the same protection circuits. But lets face it, people abuse cell phone Li-ions and Lipos. So would not call it unstable, just do it responsibly.

May 12, 2006, 03:25 PM	#36
birdlives1955 That thing's operational! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Orleans/Dallas Posts: 4,695	Hhhhmmm, Okay thanks for the help guys! I appreciate it. I mean, I know it might not be the best idea to sleep next to my li-po box, but then again I'd want to be the first one to know about it if something were to happen to them while I was asleep. However I just found a unique safety addition that anyone can make to their li-po storage box. My box is supposedly fire-proof already, however if the cells were to somehow spontaneously ignite, I would want to the fire to smothered as soon as possible. My friend Paul keeps his li-pos in a barbecue grill outside, and he said that he tapes a larger ziploc bag full of dirt or sand to the top of his storage place, directly above the li-pos. That way, if the packs do ever ignite, the plastic of the ziploc bag will melt and drop all of the dirt or sand on the fire, hopefully smothering it before it gets out of control. I thought this was good idea and I will defintely try to do this myself, I just thought I'd share it with you guys in case anyone was interested. -Matt

May 13, 2006, 04:14 AM	#37
mrm1 Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: North Central Florida Posts: 4,678	you can also charge them in a bucket of sand with a sand bag on top

May 15, 2006, 12:43 PM	#38
Osprey Engineer Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 147	Typo in my post (#28). It is 11.98, not 12.98. Thanks for your replies. I never thought about liability when shipping a defective battery. So I am not sure which cell is bad since they are all within 0.01 V of each other. That was my reasoning for charging the pack. Perhaps the one that is bad will not hold the same charge. Is there a way to tell which one/ones are bad without charging it. Can I do a discharge capacity test with the battery in it's current state? I'll have to search the posts to see how to do that unless anyone wants to post the proceedure here. I have a digital volt meter. It is a pretty decent one. Can that be used? Thanks again.

May 30, 2006, 02:48 AM	#41
aeajr Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LI, New York, USA Posts: 14,817	You don't discharge and charge your lipos in your computer at the rates we discharge and charge ours. And you can't change the charge settings or over draw them with your computer either. It won't let you. On the other hand, here you can draw too much, charge too fast, crash, and otherwise abuse the lipos in your planes. And hopefully you don't crash your hard drive, physically, the way our planes do, sometimes. Big difference.

May 30, 2006, 10:37 AM	#42
Raketemensch Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 10	Well, I knew there was definitely a difference, I just wasn't sure what it was. Thanks for pointing it out. - Raketemensch

Jun 20, 2006, 04:24 AM	#43
Andrew McGregor Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Posts: 6,486	I expect that a cellphone repair place will take a used, dead lipo of whatever description and recycle the lithium properly, and they certainly have the means to transport damaged lipos safely.

Jun 20, 2006, 11:20 AM	#44
gmyers143 Watching the Sky Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Maumee, Ohio Posts: 47	I am currently charging my Lipo's with a triton charger. This charger does not have the ability to balance charge single cells within the pack. Most of my packs are 3 cells and have a balance connector. Does anyone know if an adapter can be made to charge each cell in the pack individually?