Hockey ... Bad Influence/ Example for Kids?

[Shortman]

Im sorry, but Hockey is one of the greatest sports ever played. I am 16 and have played Ice Hockey at the highest levels.

I started when I was 10, and went on to play Peewee AA Icehockey for the Junior Fresno Falcons, then went to Bantams AA Tier for the Junior Fresno Falcons and then finally Midget AA Teir. I tried out for the Junior Olympic team when I was 12 and made the team, but was unable to go due to the mass expense of traveling to Ontario for the tournament. Dont think that ohhh were 12-16 years old, you guys don't hit like an NHL player, your thinking of the kids just learning. When I tried out, there was a kid that was 6' 6" and 250+lbs, they have kids in my league shooting 80+mph. However, we are all at the same level and all are aware of our own skills.

I played FULL CHECK hockey since I was 12, never broke a bone, chipped or lost a tooth, and never hurt myself. You want to know whats funny, I broke my collar bone playing rollar hockey with no checking allowed.

Hockey players if your not aware wear A LOT of protection.

Girdle, shin pads, cup, shoulder pads, chest protector, back protector, elbow pads, and a helmet. The reason they dont wear a full face mask is for a couple reasons, one is for much better vision on the ice, they are able to see the PUCK coming at them quicker and even see the defensive player coming to take a lick on him.

Why dont they wear a full face mask? Because NHL players are professionals, they dont shoot 6 feet off the ice, they have controlled shots and only take a shot when there is no obstruction from the path of the net. A hockey player isnt a wildman trying to shoot someones head off, they are trying to score a goal.

Football is no more dangerous then Hockey, just hockey players go faster.

Sorry, but hockey is great, if you dont think kids should learn it then I feel sorry for your kids or any other kids that you dont let them learn. Its a very safe sport and equipment now is far safer then it was even 10 years ago.

The guy who broke his neck just happened to have a freak accident, nothing else.

I had my friend break his neck wrestling his Sophomore year in High School.


Steven

[ICTHRMLS]

Very insightful post Shortman.... actually closer to the thread topic than many others by discussing the effect on kids. I know for a fact that entry level hockey (peewee or whatever it is called) is HUGE - even in the South. Ice time is very difficult to come by and the commitment by the players and their parents is very demanding in terms of time and dollars. The number of rinks in North Texas has skyrocketed and the interest does not seem to be waning. I see the biggest setback to the kids being the high cost of equipment and overbearing frustrated parents who can't behave as fans any better than Bertuzzi did. Otherwise, I see hockey as a great teacher of motor-skills, team play and commitment like many other sports are capable of.

[Shortman]

Very true. I will be upfront, my dues that my parents were nice enough to pay were $3,000 + for the season, plus traveling expenses around the state and even out of the state, Pheonix, Seattle, Ontario...

Its very expensive, and that is the only set-back. The time involved is intense as well. I have played many sports over the years, Cross-country, Track, football, soccer, baseball, all at Varsity level and they dont compare with Hockey and the commitment.


Steven

[ZRX Doug]

Steve/Shortman..all that you say is very true, but I've got a question for you.
If you did exactly what was done (break another players neck while fighting, not checking, not accidentally.) during one of your games, what do you suppose would happen to you?
At your level, is fighting tolerated? Don't say yes..I've got a few nephews/cousins who play or have played to your level & higher (this is Detroit, man..Hockey is bigger here than in most anywhere but Canada, eh?) and they all would have been looking at serious trouble for such an offense.
An accidental injury while playing just isn't the same thing as an injury caused with intent.
You guys who think NHL players aren't role models need to come on up to Meesheegan & check out the lines of elementary school kids wearing Red Wings jerseys...cripes, my 78 year old mom thinks Steve Yzerman is some kinda god or something. And my seven year old great nephew turns into a little hyper fool after watching a game on TV.
The fighting needs to be taken out of the NHL, it isn't part of the game.
Myself, I can take Hockey or leave it..if I wanna watch fast & deadly sports, I prefer sportbike racing...pretty rare to see one of these guys take a swing at another!

[Shortman]

Fighting is a part of hockey, always will be. Players get frustrated with eachother and usually both want to hit eachother badly, I never hurt anybody or broke a guys neck, but actually I did have a friend get hurt.

And actually, he broke his neck, he was checked from behind and put his head right into the boards, he was not fortunate to put his head up which would have saved much of the pain. His was a minor fracture but never the less broke it. The kid got a 10min penalty. If your fighting, thats just like taking a cheap shot or check at someone. Ive seen it happen, but Burtuzzi has been playing a long time, and he is very talented, it was just a freak accident.

Fresno may not have the leagues Detroit does, but one of my friends just got signed into the NHL, they are twins and 1 is now playing for the New Yersey Devils and both went and played in the Canadian Junior league. So we definately have talent, plus, our coach is Randy Semchuck, played with Wayne Greatsky for the LA Kings. So we do have talent, and we beat the team from Ontario, canadians are good, but they can be beat.


Steven

[ZRX Doug]

No, man..checking/hitting/bumping/whatever in pursuit of control of the puck, THAT is part of the game. Intentionally using physical violence to inflict injury for personal reasons isn't hockey, it's criminal.
Last time I was on a road racing course, a rookie rider cut inside of me and panic-braked..forcing me wide, resulting in a crash that caused some serious damages to me and my motorcycle..by your logic, I should have approached the guy in the pits and brained him with a ball-peen hammer or something.
Fortunately, we were both adult human beings able to exercise control over our emotions, as most everyone over the age of seven (excepting hockey players, apparently) is able to...instead of trying to put each other in the hospital, he met me at the ambulance and apologized..and I accepted it.
That's just the way it works..I have plenty of friends who've lost bikes or have been injured seriously because of another racer's actions..Harsh words have been used on occasion, but it never entered anyone's mind to use violence to get revenge..
Why is it that racers are able to come so much closer to death and still be sportsmen about it, but ya put some goof on a pair of hockey skates and all of a sudden getting tripped is cause for attempted freakin' homicide?

[Radioguy]

Doug:

Well said! That's my point exactly. What is up with hockey players thinking they should be allowed special treatment as far as fair play goes?

Believe me, the game isn't so much better/faster than all/any other sports that it can get players so wound up with bloodlust they can't be expected to maintain control of themselves like a pack of frenzied Bull Terriers ripping apart a tame house cat.

A player in .... football for example (pick any sport)... playing in the Rose Bowl no doubt is all worked up about the game, the competition, the crowd, possible NFL contracts, the cheerleaders, mom & dad watching in the stands, etc. but they don't think "fighting is just a part of the game" and decide to give the competition a "pop in the chops" out of frustration with not getting his way on a play.

I'd suggest the fans would be pretty pissed at having the game interrupted a dozen times by by small time hoodlums deciding to duke it out because somebody got the better of them during a pass intercept.

If I want to watch a fight, I'll watch heavyweight boxing or full contact Karate and see it done right. Especially in Karate, the fighters are really worked up about winning the match. The game is very much about fair play and sportsmanship and the officiating body is exceptionally intollerant of people who lose mental control.

If I want to watch a couple of little spoiled brats take a few swings & pokes at each other, I can just go and sit in a local bar on a Saturday night and eventually some social misfit clown with a belly full of beer will decide to punch out an ex-buddy for stealing his girlfriend.....that's the quality of fighting in the NHL.

Lee

[ZRX Doug]

PS. Steve, I didn't mean to infer that Fresno was any less of a talent pool for hockey than Detroit..sorry if ya took it that way.
It's just up here, if you aren't in to hockey you're the oddball..EVERYONE is a fan, seems like. And the way the NHL players behave is reflected in the behavior of every little kid who watches...like I said, my great-nephew is a little monster after watching a game.
Ya wanna talk about adrenelin overload in a sport? Sign up for a track day at a local road course sometime..see what a half hour of constantly hanging your life on the edge will do to ya. There are no rear view mirrors on racebikes..you are truly putting your life in the hands of the guy behind you..but it all works out, 'cuz the guy in front is doing the same with you.
In the incident I mentioned above, I was so geeked on competitive juices I didn't realize my foot was broken in four places for close to an hour.

[Wingbreaker]

I think anything out in the world can be a bad influence for kids, but rather than trying to decide whether something is good or bad for someone or stifle the things that might affect our children we should educate our children about these things instead.

I also think good parenting will prevent anything from having a bad influence on children.

We are always quick to blame something or someone else for our childrens' behavior, but in reality it is the parents' faults.

I would never blame a hockey player, movie, radio show or anything else for my child's behavior. I would blame myself and try to find the problem I have with raising my son or daughter.

This is the problem with our society, especially now. We try too hard to stifle everything rather than try to find out what our real problems are.

FCC! Don't ban bad entertainment! Ban bad parents!

WB

[ZRX Doug]

Uh-huh..normally speaking, I would agree with you. What little kids see and how they react to it should be constantly supervised by their guardians.
However, we're talking about an activity that is being pursued by a bunch of guys who are (like it or not) heroes to these little kids. This is a national (more or less) sport..it's not like we're talking about illegal dog fights hidden away in the dark, this is a readily available form of entertainment. I grew up watching the games with my dad..kids today should have the same chance to watch a sportsmanlike game.
Asking someone who is looked up to by our children to behave in a non-criminal manner isn't out of line..It's the law! (At least for everyone else in the world.)
What would you suggest parents do in this situation?
Ban their children from watching hockey? That seems a little harsh..it's not the game's fault.
Or would you prefer that parents try to explain the paradox of the good man doing bad things, and becoming a multi millionaire while doing it? This isn't like a movie, you can't tell your kids that those people are just acting. The injured guys are really injured, and the ones who commit the crime walk away free, or with a slap on the wrist at most. What kind of moral lesson is that to teach a child?
At this point in time, the NHL is teaching our kids that violence is not only acceptable, but profitable and something to be commended.

[Wingbreaker]

Ban their children from watching hockey? That seems a little harsh..it's not the game's fault.

Yes, if your kids can't handle it tell them NO!!! This is the problem with the US right now. The government wants to be our parent and tell us what we should watch or listen to. It should be our responsibilities not the government. Teach your kids and tell them no if you think they should not be watching it.

I know many people love hockey and other sports because they are violent. If you don't want your kids watching violent sports don't let them. You can't force people to be role models, and if you are relying on Pro sports players to be kids' roll models you really need to look at how you are raising your children.

Kids should be banned from watching any adult game with violence if they are easily influenced by it. If my kids liked hockey I would teach them that these men fight because of game stress, egos and attitude that is not accpetible. If they copy or mimic a hockey players violence or attitude I will stop them from watching it, YES! Children will know right from wrong if you teach them.

Look at all this backyard wrestling. Do you blame the WWF or whatever fake wrestling association it is now for this stuff? No, it is the parents. They should watch their kids more to prevent this behavior and take more time to deal with it.

Good parenting starts with NO!!!

[ZRX Doug]

I think you're missing the whole point..I personally don't have children. And frankly, I agree with what you say about parental responsibility. In a perfect world, parents would watch their children and deal with problems before they were manifested in anti-social behavior..however, in THIS world, parents are too busy or don't give a damn 90% of the time. So when their little brat with his "violence is the solution" attitude grows up, me, you, and the rest of society are the ones who pay for his behavior.
Believe it or not, I also like the violence of the game..key words are "of the game"...body-checking a guy into the boards in pursuit of a win is a pretty entertaining bit of brutality! However, sneaking up behind the body-checker ten minutes later and sucker-punching him while the puck is half a rink away is criminal..

Anyway, the whole "personal responsibility" thing is sort of a two-edged sword, isn't it? Or is it only parents who need to be responsible?
Shouldn't the league and it's players be responsible when they commit a felony assualt? If it isn't an accidental injury incurred during regular game play, then the guilty party should face the same charges he would if he committed the assault in the arena parking lot after the game..

[Wingbreaker]

OH, yeah. I guess I got off track there. I do believe the guy should be punished. Nobody should get away with assault no matter how rich or famous they are. It is very bad for kids to see someone get away with a crime, especially a violent one. You are right 100% I wasn't paying attention too well to what you said. I thought you were talking about the sport in general because the topic asks if Hockey is a bad example, not players who do crimes and get away with it.

[TLyttle]

You have to have leather balls to play rugby (bumper sticker I saw recently)...

My old man played hockey since before school, and he stopped watching hockey the day they showed a fistfight on tv. He explained that it was the stupidest thing he had ever seen, that there were a dozen other ways to punish an opposing player without trying to swing at a guy while wearing skates. Nothing for me has changed, I still regard NHL as the Ameteur League. I watch US and Canadian football, Olympic wrestling, and some other SPORTS. Fighting is part of hockey? Count me out, count out any kid that I have influence over, and be sure that I will treat a hockey player or fan as a neanderthal: proof is the interviews after the game if you need it. Football (US etc) has the wonderful rule that fighting on the field is grounds for immediate expulsion; works for me, as does the tv coverage that will not show a fight on the field.

Soccer: That is where the real athletes are: 90 minutes, full bore, few subs, lots of sportsmanship in all but the top leagues (again, it's usually the fans that are the boors!), and played the WORLD over, not just the US. Rugby is right beside it, particularly in the sportsmanship category, and really, isn't that what any SPORT is about? Or am I just being silly here? When I went to school, the old adage, "it isn't win or lose, it is how you play the game", but that has been replaced with, " winning isn't everything, it is the only thing".

Bring on the Olympics, except for the drugs the oly real "sport" left.

[Wingbreaker]

Soccer is a sissy sport besides the endurance. I lived in Italy for three years and went to many soccer games. I never saw so many faked injuries before in my life. What's up with that? Play the game or go home. Soccer fans are tougher than the players! I got hit in the head with can openers and coins during all derby mathces. What a crazy place a soccer stadium in Europe is. Talk about violence! But is is OK because afterwards everyone went to the bars for great wine off the tap!