Hockey ... Bad Influence/ Example for Kids? - Page 2

ICTHRMLS · Mar 12, 2004, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sport Flyer
Hockey may be just a passing fancy for many Americans, but in Canada it is our national sport and a major part of how many Canadians define who we are.

You are correct and I meant no disrespect.... a poor attempt at humor aimed at the wrong target. Hockey is no passing fancy (but aren't those fancy passes great

) for me.... I appreciate all aspects of the sport and put it up against any other professional sport in all areas. In MY opinion nothing somes close to offering the speed, toughness (hey, 82 games plus another 28 possible - whew), continual action and skill of a hockey game. The game has its downsides and not just the fighting part. I look forward to some of the new rules changes that are under consideration. I hope something good comes from the Bertuzzi incident - good for the entire sport

ICTHRMLS · Mar 12, 2004, 03:24 PM

Greg - I guess we have to agree to disagree..... however, as the
RULES stand right now, certain actions you don't like are part of the sport.

Quote:

Either you believe in rules and laws, sportmanship, and civilized behavoir, or you do not.

I happen to believe in all of those and play by the same.

Dax · Mar 12, 2004, 04:06 PM

You guys should watch a rugby game sometime. It makes hockey look very civilised.

Greg Smith · Mar 12, 2004, 04:30 PM

I played rugby in college. I even got knocked out once on a legal hit. We did not start fights. Well maybe once but that was an exception.

There were no "codes", enforcers, or the other junk like pro hockey.

DougB · Mar 12, 2004, 04:42 PM

As a past player and an admirer of professional hockey I do believe that Bertuzzi's mugging of Steve Moore wasn't his best move.

However, considering that Colorado's coach Tony Granato was himself guilty of breaking a stick over the head of an opposing teams player in years past just goes to show how much of a complete goof this guy is. The fact that he played Steve Moore during a game that was so far out of reach for Vancouver was just waiving a red flag in the face of Vancouver's players.

Also, for those of you who think Steve is greatly hurt, the news is (from the hospital) that he should be playing before the regular season finishes or playoff's are over, regardless of the media's attempt to cloud/sensationalize the issue and railroad Bertuzzi.

Funny, someone mentioned that why wasn't the mugging of Naslund done before the 7 extra periods were played. It was, to some extent, Brad May went after Moore immediately, but was hauled off by the ref's before the fight could even start. The NHL should look to itself, instead of the media to figure out a way of controlling the current lack of respect and discipline the players are showing each other, the referee's and the league in general. Either way the recent game was a sorry example of the fastest sport on ice.

DougB

Dax · Mar 12, 2004, 05:36 PM

I still say that the coach was to blame. Moore should have never been on the ice in the 3rd. Its not even like he is a good player, or they needed his skills to win. And I think that the avs coach's stick to the head is THE WORST hit to ever happen in the NHL even more so than the brashire hit to the head.

Sport Flyer · Mar 12, 2004, 05:55 PM

The Ted Green hit in the 60s was absolutely brutal. They were chopping each other back and for then the guy he was fighting basically then two-handed tomahawked him across the top of the head with the stick, and this back in the days of no helmuts. Took three operations to save his life. Green ended up running a mini-golf place back here in Winnipeg.

newracer · Mar 12, 2004, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dax
I still say that the coach was to blame. Moore should have never been on the ice in the 3rd. Its not even like he is a good player, or they needed his skills to win.

With a game that has been riddled with fights and cheap shots and is for all intensive purposes over, who are you going to play, your rookie that needs ice time and isn't a key player or your best vetrans that will take you through the palyoffs? Not the coaches fault at all, well at least not the Av's coach.

newracer · Mar 12, 2004, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DougB
Funny, someone mentioned that why wasn't the mugging of Naslund done before the 7 extra periods were played. It was, to some extent, Brad May went after Moore immediately, but was hauled off by the ref's before the fight could even start.
DougB

They still had 2 periods of that game and 3 periods of the next. Both were close games though at the Pepsi center though.

Radioguy · Mar 12, 2004, 07:41 PM

Hi Folks:

There is one simple reason Todd was crying on TV, and that's money. Not the paltry sum of 500K he'll lose this season, but the multiple millions he'll lose before this is all over. He'll be lucky to find a job selling used cars wearing a plaid suit.

I hope he has been investing his previous earnings well, because his earning power has just started a dramatic downhill slide.

You can't possibly think that Todd has undergone a sudden behavioural reformation before the TV press conference because Moore suffered an injury. He's spent many years being groomed for that very moment when he hit Moore by having had dozens upon dozens of fights on the ice probably starting when he was about 13 years old.

If he and a few buddies had stumbled onto Moore on some back road drinking beer and laid him out with a few punches, he'd have been bragging about it for months among themselves instead of suddenly thinking "this is bad, I hurt a man, I'd better change my ways or I'll end up in the slammer"

In this case, the only thing that Todd is crying about is getting caught and the ramifications of being caught, not in the results of his actions. His little performance was not genuine concern for his actions.

From time to time you'll see a comment ... "Oh gosh....he didn't mean to hurt anyone" .... any 3 year old kid knows full well that punching somebody hurts and the reason somebody throws a punch is to cause pain.

His career is now toast as far as making the big bucks.

He has instantly become about as marketable as OJ Simpson for product endorsements.

Lee

DougB · Mar 13, 2004, 12:30 AM

Sorry Lee,

I know the big guy slightly (I also live fairly close to him) and can vouch he's an alright sort! He and his wife Julie are very active in the local community during hockey season when they live here and Todd works very hard for Canuck Place, a hospice for terminally ill kids here in Vancouver that is sponsored in a large fashion by the Vancouver Canucks organization. On ice, his persona is that of take no prisoners...

Actually, he's one of the nicest guys you could meet away from the rink and I can tell you he's hurting right now, not because of future financial considerations or the suspension, but because he actually does care about the condition of the other player. He's also bright enough to realize that the shoe could have been on the other foot and he himself could've been hurt badly, instead of the other way around.

I go back to my initial post and say that the NHL has got some serious deciding to do, either they want the US network money and sell a rock'em'sock'em brand of hockey so Gary Bettman and his ilk can make millions more, or control the discipline now with whatever means they have to stop this travesty from getting any bigger or worse.

DougB

Dax · Mar 13, 2004, 03:12 AM

Your right he wanted to hurt him, like your gonna have to put some ice on that eye tonight, but not, HURT HIM, like wake up in the hospital hurt him.

Its not like he thought 'I want to make shure this kid never plays again and spends his life eating through a straw'. He just wanted to teach him not to hit a leading player. What would have happened if it was gretsky he hit and not nazzi? OUTRAGE, but I think the rules have gotten a bit slack since the great one left the game (the un-written rules that is)

Greg Smith · Mar 13, 2004, 10:58 AM

I sometimes wonder if NHL hockey violence is the end result of a cold calculation that goes like this:

1. Hockey is one of the best and most exciting sports to watch live because of the speed, constant action and closeness to the action the crowd gets in modern big arenas.
2. Hockey is one of the worst TV sports to watch because viewers have a hard time seeing the puck and don't get to appreciate the speed because TV negates perhiperal vision.
3. Therefore, we are not going to even try to make it a big TV draw. We are rather going to make it a big live event draw.
4. Allowing some violence, especially fights, will increase the live event crowds.

I am not saying I believe this but I do wonder about it.

Dax · Mar 13, 2004, 03:21 PM

not true, I like watching a game on TV better. Then again I HATE watching a game on an american network, they can't follow the puck worth a damn. I think you see alot more of what happens on tv than in the arena, plus instant replay is great if you miss a goal because you stoped to get a fresh beer. I think hockey is like a chess game. when played by two REAL GOOD teams its like watching chess, no one scores till the other team makes a mistake.

ICTHRMLS · Mar 13, 2004, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dax
not true, I like watching a game on TV better.

I have been to a number of games and the TV affords better overall views, replays, shorter restroom lines, cheaper beer and I don't have to put up with obnoxious fans - for or against. While the FoxTrak puck experiment went by the wayside, it had the potential to bring in a lot more fans. It was a great concept if only you could turn it off if you did not want to see the blue/red streak. Just another chilling opinion.... ice, chilling, get it?

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Mar 12, 2004, 04:06 PM	#18
Dax There is no spoon Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 871	You guys should watch a rugby game sometime. It makes hockey look very civilised.

Mar 12, 2004, 04:30 PM	#19
Greg Smith Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Centennial Posts: 1,732	I played rugby in college. I even got knocked out once on a legal hit. We did not start fights. Well maybe once but that was an exception. There were no "codes", enforcers, or the other junk like pro hockey.

Mar 12, 2004, 04:42 PM	#20
DougB Spittin' Sparx forever... Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: West Vancouver, BC Posts: 472	As a past player and an admirer of professional hockey I do believe that Bertuzzi's mugging of Steve Moore wasn't his best move. However, considering that Colorado's coach Tony Granato was himself guilty of breaking a stick over the head of an opposing teams player in years past just goes to show how much of a complete goof this guy is. The fact that he played Steve Moore during a game that was so far out of reach for Vancouver was just waiving a red flag in the face of Vancouver's players. Also, for those of you who think Steve is greatly hurt, the news is (from the hospital) that he should be playing before the regular season finishes or playoff's are over, regardless of the media's attempt to cloud/sensationalize the issue and railroad Bertuzzi. Funny, someone mentioned that why wasn't the mugging of Naslund done before the 7 extra periods were played. It was, to some extent, Brad May went after Moore immediately, but was hauled off by the ref's before the fight could even start. The NHL should look to itself, instead of the media to figure out a way of controlling the current lack of respect and discipline the players are showing each other, the referee's and the league in general. Either way the recent game was a sorry example of the fastest sport on ice. DougB

Mar 12, 2004, 05:36 PM	#21
Dax There is no spoon Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 871	I still say that the coach was to blame. Moore should have never been on the ice in the 3rd. Its not even like he is a good player, or they needed his skills to win. And I think that the avs coach's stick to the head is THE WORST hit to ever happen in the NHL even more so than the brashire hit to the head.

Mar 12, 2004, 05:55 PM	#22
Sport Flyer Neo-Cowboyism Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portage La Prairie, Manitoba Canada Posts: 472	The Ted Green hit in the 60s was absolutely brutal. They were chopping each other back and for then the guy he was fighting basically then two-handed tomahawked him across the top of the head with the stick, and this back in the days of no helmuts. Took three operations to save his life. Green ended up running a mini-golf place back here in Winnipeg.

Mar 12, 2004, 07:41 PM	#25
Radioguy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg Intl, Canada Posts: 633	Hi Folks: There is one simple reason Todd was crying on TV, and that's money. Not the paltry sum of 500K he'll lose this season, but the multiple millions he'll lose before this is all over. He'll be lucky to find a job selling used cars wearing a plaid suit. I hope he has been investing his previous earnings well, because his earning power has just started a dramatic downhill slide. You can't possibly think that Todd has undergone a sudden behavioural reformation before the TV press conference because Moore suffered an injury. He's spent many years being groomed for that very moment when he hit Moore by having had dozens upon dozens of fights on the ice probably starting when he was about 13 years old. If he and a few buddies had stumbled onto Moore on some back road drinking beer and laid him out with a few punches, he'd have been bragging about it for months among themselves instead of suddenly thinking "this is bad, I hurt a man, I'd better change my ways or I'll end up in the slammer" In this case, the only thing that Todd is crying about is getting caught and the ramifications of being caught, not in the results of his actions. His little performance was not genuine concern for his actions. From time to time you'll see a comment ... "Oh gosh....he didn't mean to hurt anyone" .... any 3 year old kid knows full well that punching somebody hurts and the reason somebody throws a punch is to cause pain. His career is now toast as far as making the big bucks. He has instantly become about as marketable as OJ Simpson for product endorsements. Lee

Mar 13, 2004, 12:30 AM	#26
DougB Spittin' Sparx forever... Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: West Vancouver, BC Posts: 472	Sorry Lee, I know the big guy slightly (I also live fairly close to him) and can vouch he's an alright sort! He and his wife Julie are very active in the local community during hockey season when they live here and Todd works very hard for Canuck Place, a hospice for terminally ill kids here in Vancouver that is sponsored in a large fashion by the Vancouver Canucks organization. On ice, his persona is that of take no prisoners... Actually, he's one of the nicest guys you could meet away from the rink and I can tell you he's hurting right now, not because of future financial considerations or the suspension, but because he actually does care about the condition of the other player. He's also bright enough to realize that the shoe could have been on the other foot and he himself could've been hurt badly, instead of the other way around. I go back to my initial post and say that the NHL has got some serious deciding to do, either they want the US network money and sell a rock'em'sock'em brand of hockey so Gary Bettman and his ilk can make millions more, or control the discipline now with whatever means they have to stop this travesty from getting any bigger or worse. DougB

Mar 13, 2004, 03:12 AM	#27
Dax There is no spoon Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 871	Your right he wanted to hurt him, like your gonna have to put some ice on that eye tonight, but not, HURT HIM, like wake up in the hospital hurt him. Its not like he thought 'I want to make shure this kid never plays again and spends his life eating through a straw'. He just wanted to teach him not to hit a leading player. What would have happened if it was gretsky he hit and not nazzi? OUTRAGE, but I think the rules have gotten a bit slack since the great one left the game (the un-written rules that is)

Mar 13, 2004, 10:58 AM	#28
Greg Smith Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Centennial Posts: 1,732	I sometimes wonder if NHL hockey violence is the end result of a cold calculation that goes like this: 1. Hockey is one of the best and most exciting sports to watch live because of the speed, constant action and closeness to the action the crowd gets in modern big arenas. 2. Hockey is one of the worst TV sports to watch because viewers have a hard time seeing the puck and don't get to appreciate the speed because TV negates perhiperal vision. 3. Therefore, we are not going to even try to make it a big TV draw. We are rather going to make it a big live event draw. 4. Allowing some violence, especially fights, will increase the live event crowds. I am not saying I believe this but I do wonder about it.

Mar 13, 2004, 03:21 PM	#29
Dax There is no spoon Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 871	not true, I like watching a game on TV better. Then again I HATE watching a game on an american network, they can't follow the puck worth a damn. I think you see alot more of what happens on tv than in the arena, plus instant replay is great if you miss a goal because you stoped to get a fresh beer. I think hockey is like a chess game. when played by two REAL GOOD teams its like watching chess, no one scores till the other team makes a mistake.