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Old Dec 15, 2001, 04:41 PM
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GWRIGHT's Avatar
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I tried the "dark side" and I like it

Tested the new Hacker motor today in one of my E3D's. It's been designed to be a bolt in replacement for "car motors", and they matched the KV really closely to the endoplasma, so you can use the same gearing/propping/cellcount and just bolt in the brushless.It also has a stepped down shaft to 3.2mm so the same pinions will work. It turns the 12X8 about identical to the endoplasma,.. just a touch more, but depends on condition of the battery of course. I recorded 7500 rpms with the 12X8 and a CP2400 pack. It does it, however, at 34 amps rather than 40 amps. My flying style is giving me over 10 minutes with the same power. Propped it up with a 14X7 and it went to 39.4 amps,.. almost 10 amps less than the endo with that prop, and turned it roughly 200 revs more than the endo, indicating that the efficiency difference is greater at higher power levels. For the many people that have asked for a brushless alternative, this looks to be a good one. You can get equal performance to the endo,.. for a couple minutes longer per flight, and zero maintanence,..but you will be paying more Is it worth it? I dunno,.. it looks like the price of this motor (I think it will be called the C40-12S) will be around $169, plus you've got to add in a controller (I'm using the 40 amp jeti). So, roughly $250 motor and controller, versus about $70 for the endo setup. Yes, it's better,.. much better, because it will last a long long time, and you get more runtime per charge. However,.. I think the endo setup will still have the advantage for getting people into e-flight due to the low cost. Of course, once you get them hooked, then they'l want the best equipment available,.. right? I'm still going to fly Endo's, but also these motors. Since I have two E3D's flying, I can show people the difference and let them decide. The endo setup is great bang for the buck,.. but as I've found out, lots of people don't mind spending money to get the best solution, so now there's something that will work with all the same gearing propping numbers I've worked out with the endo,.. but it's also capable of more,.. and it's more efficient. Quite a bit more money,.. but it is better.
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 04:55 PM
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Agra, Oklahoma
Joined Feb 2000
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Sounds like a typical brush versus brushless comparrison to me I have talked with Sean Plummer of Aero-Model.com a bit about this motor (although I thought it was a "D40") and he had nothing but good things to say about it. DOes the motor have a built in heat sink?
It certainly sounds like a win-win situation if someone has the funds. The idea of being able to start with a cheap brush setup and then move to a simple brushless drop in sounds like a winner to me.

Thanks for the info and keep up the great work!

Steve McBride
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 05:09 PM
BEC
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Auburn, Washington USA
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Hmmmmm..... sounds marvelous.

BTW, it probably doesn't need a heat sink. I have a bit bigger Hacker (B50-13L) that I've bench run at over 450W and it barely gets warm to the touch at those power levels. They are, based on what I've looked at and run, the most efficient motors out there. And with more efficiency there's less energy heating up the motor case.

Gary, you'll never look back.....
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 05:32 PM
MKH
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Ohio
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Sean's site shows some real-world numbers for Hacker combos he's tested, including one of the B40's, a 10L geared if I remember, that swings a 16x10 prop at 40 amps on an 8x2400 pack, and gives 70 ounces thrust. Made me think of the E3D right away. The motor will also take 10 cells, same prop, 49 amps, over 5 pounds of thrust. On 8 cells, especially CP1700's you could get your E3D under 3 pounds!

I just took delivery of my new B20-31S for slow/parkflyers, and it's a jewel. No cogging at all, and no gearnoise at all when I hand-spin the prop. Under $200 with the Jeti ESC and shipping.

MKH
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 06:34 PM
Tell that to George Zipp!
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United States, IL, Inverness
Joined Oct 2000
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quote[I tried the "dark side" and I like it ]

I thought you were going to say you bougt a IC gas plane!
Why would a brushless be the dark side?

Happy to hear your results though. I think the next nice plane I get will have a brushless. "Nice" means not made out of house insulation

MIKE
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 07:17 PM
p471701
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I tried the "dark side" and I like it

gary: it sounds like your walking towards the light
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 07:21 PM
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I would think he would be using the carbon cased hackers if he really when to the dark side.
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 08:03 PM
D.G.B.
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Southington, Connecticut, United States
Joined Jun 2000
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i think if gary really went over to the dark side it would be a 100" E3D and one of those ACRO brushless motors swinging a 22"prop : stefanP
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 08:16 PM
310mph Kolibri T25 Swist
henke's Avatar
Sverige, Kronobergs Lšn, Ljungby
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Dark side?? ...maybe purple

I just tested my B40 8L in my Ky CAP...it has more then enough power to pull my 2920g CAP upwards! approx 3,2kg thrust, using 12x2400 and 16x10 (8:1 reisenauer)

it should realy rock in the E3D!!!

anyone with motocalc that can confirm 3200g thrust?? amp?
thanks

/Henke
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 08:55 PM
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Rutherfordton, North Carolina, United States
Joined Apr 2001
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Gary's journey to the "brushless side"

Hi Gary,
Glad ...and VERY interested to hear about your tests with the Hacker brushless motor. This is definitely the way to go if cost can be pushed down on the priority list.
I've considered the Hacker B50 9S with their 6.7:1 planetary box for your E3D. It would be a bit heavier but would offer a much more robust drivetrain.
I'm trying a B50 11S with their 6.7:1 gearbox in my Diablotin Mini on 12 cells and hope I'm as pleased as you are with the results.
Please keep us posted on your journey into the "brushless side"
Ed
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Old Dec 16, 2001, 04:12 AM
17 years on RCG!
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Dec 1996
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Hey guys!

Bugging my dad to contact Gary about my E3D kit for my Christmas gift and Im trying to debate on power. I have a spare Hacker B40-8L motor laying around. Would this motor be any good in the E3D? Currently, I fly the same motor in a Voyager E heli. It used to have a 12 turn RC car motor, but with the 8L on 10 cells, its a 3D e-heli with power to spare! By the way - the C40 motor was actually designed with the Voyager in mind - It was designed to bolt right in in place of the 12 turn motor offering more power with more flight time at the same size/weight.

SO, how can I make this 8L work? Obviously I need to gear it - but how much? Id like to run either 8 or 10 cells, so what gearing and prop is best?

GWRIGHT - Im not sure if you know this, but the JETI ESCs are a ower quality than the Kontronik or Schulze brushless ESCs. Ive seen some reports from Germany and the like where they compare the Jetis and Kontronik/Schulze way we used to compare frame rate and high rate ESCs! Basically - the JETI units arent nearly as efficient as the Kon/Schulze ESCs - hence the lower cost. Since you fly mostly at rduced settings and with lots of throttle changes, I think the better brushless ESCs might suit the E3D and yourself even more. Of course, they cost more though

Jason
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Old Dec 16, 2001, 08:38 AM
AMA 697691
Rochester, NY, USA
Joined Aug 2000
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Wow, for a moment there, I thought you were going back to glow!

Excellent report, Gary, thank you.

Do you have any recommendations on where to purchase the Hacker brushless motors?
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Old Dec 16, 2001, 09:03 AM
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Brushless...

Yes, The Force is Strong with Brushless...
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