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Old Dec 01, 2013, 08:33 AM
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SayCheeze's Avatar
United States, TN, Martin
Joined Apr 2013
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Zero for 2 with Nitro...

Starting to doubt whether or not I should peruse nitro.

Bought a little sporty plane from a guy that flew nitro's for years. Fueled it up, flew one circuit, landed, no harm. Re-fueled, flew a lap or two, and the motor quits. Rough landing, slight repairs. She's ready, I think, to take her back up.

Now I buy a large 1/4 scale champ/super cub styled plane. a Bud Nosen Kit. I take it to the field, with 2 experienced nitro plane/helicopter pilots along with me.

Assemble the plane wings/struts. - CHECK
Fuel the planes tank - CHECK
Range Check - CHECK
Battery Pack Power level - CHECK
Control Surfaces - CHECK

I let the experienced pilot take her up. He flies around 3 minutes, lands, no harm.

An hour passes or so, so I decide to take her up myself, with him standing next to me. Kind of a shaky take off just because I'm not used to flying tail drag'rs.

I get around maybe a 100' up, make a turn and the motor sputters, and I can tell I'm not getting the power I need. I start to circle back, and the motor shuts off.

Luckily for me with a 108" wingspan it glides pretty decent back to me, and I land a bit harder that I would like. No big damage, short of my pride.

What's with me and Nitro planes. I can't figure out why they quite on me. I'm going to fly my electrics today, to try to wash out yesterday's fiasco.

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Old Dec 01, 2013, 09:09 AM
Detroit 2-stroke junkie
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Joined Jul 2008
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Too lean, too rich, pin hole in fuel lines (fuel line inside tank also), bad glow plug, wrong glow plug, air leaks at engine mating surfaces, air leak around carburetor base, pressure line plugged, fuel tank height wrong...

Glow can be tricky to set up but theirs nothing like the smell of Napalm in the Morning
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Old Dec 01, 2013, 09:11 AM
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United States, TN, Martin
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Originally Posted by 1320fastback View Post
Too lean, too rich, pin hole in fuel lines (fuel line inside tank also), bad glow plug, wrong glow plug, air leaks at engine mating surfaces, air leak around carburetor base, pressure line plugged, fuel tank height wrong...
Thanks Fast...

I'm not sure I'm up to the task of dis-assembling the fuse for all that. Beyond my pay grade. But I hear what your saying. The thing is, the previous owner flew it just last week, with no issues.... I can at the very least pull the glow plug and replace it.
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Old Dec 01, 2013, 10:13 AM
The Prez....... again
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United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Your fuel and his fuel may not be the same. That may be a bit, though not much, of the problem. Glow engines can be a bit finicky at times. 99% is getting to know the engine and what to do. I flew a little YS 53 four stroke a lot last summer. I burned over a gallon of fuel through it. Doesn't sound like much fuel but 1/2 throttle flights would last 20 minutes or more. I only touched the high speed needle twice through the whole time.

Spend a bit of time getting familiar with the engine and it's adjustments. You can't be to far off the mark from where you are now. Get a bit of help and you will be OK.

Ken
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Old Dec 01, 2013, 11:14 AM
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United States, TN, Martin
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Thanks Ken..

Is there fuel that maybe you one should consider burning throughout the winter months -vs- the summer? We're in the south, so the temps don't get that cold. It was probably high 40's yesterday when this happened.

I want to replace the fuel lines, so I took off the cowl today. The engine mount is attached via 4 allen/star screws. What I don't know, and can't see from behind, is if there is some type of nut on the backside. If so, I'm screwed if I pull those, because there is no backdoor access to the firewall.


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Old Dec 01, 2013, 12:28 PM
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United States, NE, Hooper
Joined Oct 2013
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one thing FYI, the blind nuts on the flywall have been put on the wrong side. i'm guessing he may have just nuts on opposite side. let other pilots look, but blind nuts are ALWAYS put on back side.
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Old Dec 01, 2013, 01:06 PM
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United States, TN, Martin
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Yeah, I can't figure this out. Why would you almost seal up the backside with very minimal access that would prevent you from tightening anything... Not sure if I can figure out a work around on this one.
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Old Dec 01, 2013, 04:19 PM
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United States, CA, Clovis
Joined Mar 2004
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I'd be suspicious of that fueler valve. Although they are a decent design, the only thing that keeps them working correctly is the O-ring contained within... It doesn't take much for those to leak air..

Did you get the original fueler probe designed for that fueler?.. I do believe there are more then 1 size, depending on the manufacturer.. not that thats a root of the prob.. but just wondering if you had any fueling issues.. anything that might have "displaced" something inside that fueler valve... or created any flow issues..

Another question is the fuel, and how fresh it is.. and of course the plumbing and tubing.. as has been noted... 1320fastback listed several key areas.. very possible issues if things aren't correct.

It does look like there might have been more then one engine in this plane, by the looks of the "stand-off" pieces there..
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Old Dec 01, 2013, 08:42 PM
Tampa,Fl
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United States, FL, Tampa
Joined Jan 2007
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When you buy old used RC Planes. Many times. If you don't replace ALL the fuel lines and this goes for the lines inside the tank too. You'll continue to have problems. Your issue is Not uncommon for new to fuel Flyers. On the fuel valve. I hate those. I use a fuel Dot. It eliminates issues like the O ring.
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Old Dec 01, 2013, 08:59 PM
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Those Quick Fill valves can be a issue. If they get dried out to the point where the nipple doesn't spring back and seat it is for sure going to cause problems.

By the way those fuel lines look Id change them out. It's cheap enough that if its not the problem its piece of mind that they have been done.
This also means that you will have to get to the fuel tank. You will want to take the stopper out and change the Clunk line also. I have seen before where the clunk breaks off of the line, the line floats on the fuel and the motor runs funky once fuel level starts to drop.
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Old Dec 02, 2013, 06:01 AM
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United States, TN, Martin
Joined Apr 2013
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Thanks folks. I'm ordering fuel line today, along with some other misc. items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGrant View Post
Did you get the original fueler probe designed for that fueler?..
Not sure if I have an Original probe. Just the one the fellow I bought it from supplied it.

The man that built the plane passed away a year or so ago. I have to admit, those lines are very yellow looking. I'll ask some of the other nitro guys what my options are on fueling up the plane without that quick connect device or maybe just replace it too.

I'm bringing the plane in this morning to the shop to have them spot weld a piece on the landing gear that broke at a weld. While it's here, I'll ask what my options are as to getting that tank out too.

Appreciate the insight too.

I have fuel coming in today, and hope to fly my first fuel plane bought "again", without incident. It's suppose to be very mild out today temp wise...
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Old Dec 02, 2013, 09:14 AM
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United States, CA, Clovis
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Very cool. The question about the original probe was aimed at how the device is designed really.. as theres an O-ring previously mentioned.. that seats right in the hole the probe inserts into.. when the probe is inserted, it simply pushes a plunger back, opening the orifice to fuel. When the probe is removed, the plunger is pushed back into place via a micro-spring behind the plunger... "supposedly" sealing the orifice. The O-ring shrinks, cracks, and gets unseated relatively easily... I've seen 2 sizes of probes.. the diff is length... albeit a few nano thousandths..

Although for some applications the fuelers are cool... and I do have a few planes with these devices. I'm not a fan at all for the above reasons. They're very handy when the plane is new, and flown alot, but when they sit for a while.. its almost always a guarantee the valves need service.

A fuel-dot as mentioned is a very good device. With that you might need to ad a line to the tank. Talk to your hobby shop guys.. they'll be able to give you good advice.
Good luck.
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Old Dec 03, 2013, 05:44 AM
Jim in the Desert
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United States, NM, Las Cruces
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SayCheeze View Post
Thanks Fast...

I'm not sure I'm up to the task of dis-assembling the fuse for all that. Beyond my pay grade. But I hear what your saying. The thing is, the previous owner flew it just last week, with no issues.... I can at the very least pull the glow plug and replace it.
My onion, if you like that internal combustion experience, the sound, the feel, bad enough, you will be motivated to figure this stuff out, which won't be that hard if you have guys at the field.

None of the fixes suggested above cost real money, just time and frustration. I flew this morning for the first time using my own nitro plane (Hanger 9 Ultrastick 40, have been flying the club trainer several months).

It was so exhilarating, the plane is quick, handles quick, nothing like a trainer (to me). Sure I could have had an electric in it, but I am now so addicted to the engine sound, messing with a fuel eating engine, I won't stop. I will still fly my electrics at the university field we use for electrics which is close by. But my real flying will be fuel. I already have bought a bigger 1/4 Cub and 1/4 Chipmunk to put gas engines in.

If you have guys to help, watch what they do, and it will teach you. I had two old hands spend a couple hours getting the Evolution .46 in my Ultrastick to run right, but I learned a whole lot watching them.

Just depends on whether you like the fuel thing. If not, electrics are the thing. I love them too.
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Old Dec 03, 2013, 05:50 AM
Jim in the Desert
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United States, NM, Las Cruces
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Originally Posted by SayCheeze View Post
Thanks Ken..

Is there fuel that maybe you one should consider burning throughout the winter months -vs- the summer? We're in the south, so the temps don't get that cold. It was probably high 40's yesterday when this happened.

I want to replace the fuel lines, so I took off the cowl today. The engine mount is attached via 4 allen/star screws. What I don't know, and can't see from behind, is if there is some type of nut on the backside. If so, I'm screwed if I pull those, because there is no backdoor access to the firewall.


They are almost always T-nuts (blind nuts) for the very reason you point out. Unscrew them a tad, and try to look in the space with a flashlight. You may be able to see the metal edge of the blind nuts flush with the firewall.

Do you have any other openinig into the area? You can't take out the fuel tank?
If the nut fell off the other end (if I'm wrong), no place you could shake the nut to so it'd fall out?
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Old Dec 03, 2013, 05:56 AM
Jim in the Desert
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Originally Posted by Transplanted1996 View Post
one thing FYI, the blind nuts on the flywall have been put on the wrong side. i'm guessing he may have just nuts on opposite side. let other pilots look, but blind nuts are ALWAYS put on back side.
I think he has blind nuts on both the firewall, put in correctly, and blind nuts to hold the piece of plywood he's using as a spacer, and the latter are put in correctly if the intent is to hold the spacer to the firewall. The flat part of the blind nut should be doing the pulling and it is pulling the spacer to the firewall.

Even if you get all that engine mount stuff off, you will still have a solid firewall. How will you get to the fuel tank to change the lines?
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