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Old Oct 09, 2008, 02:06 PM
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They should be coming back around soon. The dollar is gaining strength.
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Old Oct 09, 2008, 02:18 PM
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About two months ago I ordered the Savex L-39 at the worst time. 1.7 $ to Euro. Just a day or two ago it was 1.38 $ to Euro. Better but still hard on the wallet for sure. Oh for the days when the Euro was worth less than the $.
If you find a Panther for less than $700 it is the non retract version like the one shown at warbirdsrc.com
icarerc and ductedfans both have/had retract ready version.
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Old Oct 09, 2008, 02:26 PM
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Ducted fans wanted Almost $600 for the NON-retract version. Yikes!!
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 04:40 PM
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My Aeronaut Panther arrived today. Yipee!

The glass work is real purdy. It is surprisingly light weight too. I guess that is the benefit of epoxy resin?

It is too bad you can't purchase the laser-cut battery tray and supports from the new retract-ready Panther to retrofit into the older one. That would be handy.

I don't suppose anyone has them they could scan and I could use as a template?
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 05:18 PM
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Yes once you have held one of the Aeronaut, Schuebeler or WeMotec etc. kits in your hands, it's hard to go back to some of the chinese overweight junk.

I am told it's a) the quality design which only puts strength were it's needed b) the specific way the epoxy is laid out and c) the type and weight of the epoxy resin itself. For ex, a lot of the chinese made junk uses some cheap but inevitably heavy weight epoxy. Look for ex at some of the weight tables of the het kits like the MiG-29 ... Of course they look good on the internet, esp with some shiny heavy paint coating on top of it .

For the battery tray, why not just make a paper template and cut it out of lightweight ply? I would say it's rather easy, at least compared to say the retract mounts. It does not have to look good, it just needs to be light and functional

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=216
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
For the battery tray, why not just make a paper template and cut it out of lightweight ply? I would say it's rather easy, at least compared to say the retract mounts. It does not have to look good, it just needs to be light and functional
Yup - that will be plan B. I just thought it would be nice if I could print a scan and use it as my paper template - no guesswork.
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 05:31 PM
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All I can offer is these pictures of the proto:

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=63332
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Old Oct 16, 2008, 09:48 PM
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Thanks for the link Herb. I don't speak German, but it looks like at one point there may have been CAD files posted of the parts I was looking for.
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 02:12 PM
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Heck from those pictures your could use a program called Tileprint to size and print out the photos of the bulheads and use the pics as patterns for making the gear mounts.

With tileprint you set one point and then another and tell the program the distance betweeen the two and it then prints out the photo at 1 to 1 scale. It's a freeware program, do a google search to find it.
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 02:18 PM
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Thank you. I will have a look. I am not going to use any landing gear so I am really just after the battery tray and formers.
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Old Oct 20, 2008, 01:00 PM
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Yes, that TilePrint program looks very useful. Thanks Ed.

Socomon, there is a program/website babelfish that allows you to translate a page. It works ok and gives you at least a rough idea of what they are taking about.

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/
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Old Oct 20, 2008, 01:36 PM
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Thanks Herb. My flying buddy Gary is fluent in German and I had him read through the thread for me. I may ask him e-mail that fellow for me to see if he still has the CAD files.
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Old Dec 08, 2008, 08:43 PM
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Where have people gone to get scale decals for their Panthers?
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Old Dec 08, 2008, 09:06 PM
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I got mine here from Ralph Schneider:

http://www.tailormadedecals.com/

.
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Old Dec 08, 2008, 09:09 PM
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How does there price and quality compare with callie-graphics or the like?

Your panther looks darn nice.
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Old Dec 08, 2008, 11:36 PM
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Not sure ...

Ralf produces his as waterslide decals, and the quality is really superb. He even sent me a second set, with some very slight imperfections, for free.

I have been told that JHH used to make some very nice decals, maybe one of their sets could be used for the Panther?

I have occasionally made my own (vinyl, monokote or testors) decals - but the latter with time these have a tendency to fade in the Ca sun, or just peel off at the corners. So I only use this method on smaller planes. But maybe here it might work for some.

.
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Old Dec 09, 2008, 07:59 AM
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Thanks for posting those.
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Old Dec 11, 2008, 04:09 PM
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BTW Herb - what is involved with buffing that model masters aluminum paint that you used? Do you buff it by hand with a rag or ??
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 01:59 PM
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I used a pad that Ralf Schneider sent me, there are similar products at Target. Not sure what it's called, it has the shape of a soft grey disk, and
it's not scotchbrite which is much too harsh...

I thought I found (it's been a while ... ) that regular scottex paper or similar would also work well, if applied carefully always in one direction.
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 02:16 PM
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Thanks for the info. Yours looks so good it has me re-thinking my scheme. I was originally looking to do the blue with the red/yellow wings (the drone control plane). Now i'm not sure. I also love the Hawaii based version (the grey with red/yellow wings).
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 02:22 PM
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If you like the silver scheme, get two Tamiya "Silver Leaf" spray cans and some masking tape for the blue tail, and be done with it

After all, they are meant to fly, no ?
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 02:43 PM
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With that silver scheme are wing leading edges (I assume de-icers) intended to be a different paint (metal) than the rest of the wing?
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 03:29 PM
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i use silver leaf for alum surfaces too. best alum i can find, sprays and drys nice
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 03:32 PM
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I guess what I was asking was would it still look OK to do the wing and the leading edge all in one paint, or would you loose the effect of the de-icers?
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 04:08 PM
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they accualy wernt de-icers, just left bare alum, to avoid all the paint chipping/pitting at sea. atleast what i understand. i could be wrong. i know they arnt de-icers though. just about all navy birds had bare alum le's on wings/tails into the late 50's early 60's. to me, it adds alot to the look of the bird..heres a couple 50's navy examples..my jhh cougar and the alfa FJ3(sabre) i think the panther especially looks cool with the silver le's but thats just me.
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socomon
I guess what I was asking was would it still look OK to do the wing and the leading edge all in one paint, or would you loose the effect of the de-icers?
No two Panthers seem to look alike

.
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 05:51 PM
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I guess that is one of the beauty of a warbird. You can do almost anything you want cosmeticaly, because that seems to happen to the real ones over their lifetime, particularly during combat.
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 06:38 PM
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The leading edge system was referred to as "Droop Snoop".
The 1st 6 inches of the leading edge would move downward in conjunction with the flaps,
changing the camber of the wing for low speed carrier landings.
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Old Dec 12, 2008, 06:43 PM
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Like leading edge slats I guess.
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Old Dec 14, 2008, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair nut
they accualy wernt de-icers, just left bare alum, to avoid all the paint chipping/pitting at sea. atleast what i understand. i could be wrong. i know they arnt de-icers though. just about all navy birds had bare alum le's on wings/tails into the late 50's early 60's. to me, it adds alot to the look of the bird..heres a couple 50's navy examples..my jhh cougar and the alfa FJ3(sabre) i think the panther especially looks cool with the silver le's but thats just me.
Corsair Nut,

Nice looking set of jets. Question, who makes that Couger? What power system is used in that jet. Got to get me one of those.

Jim
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Old Dec 14, 2008, 03:13 PM
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That might be a jhh one.

Airworld makes a nice 90mm EDF Cougar designed for the DS-51 fan

http://www.airworld.de/Englisch/Index.htm

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4087770/tm.htm

(also called the baby-Cougar since they make a much bigger one as well:

http://www.alsgallery.co.uk/view_alb...bumName=couger

I saw the Airworld EDF one fly by Dr. Jet aka Bill Knoll at the Mid-Winter Electrics in San Diego a few years ago and it was awsome, full ducting and very lightweight glass work painted in the mold,

.

.
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Old Dec 14, 2008, 03:33 PM
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C/N built a JHH Cougar with a 90mm Midi fan for power

JHH cougar thread is here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669012
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Old Dec 18, 2008, 07:07 PM
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I picked up a NIB Mega 22/30/3 off e-bay ($65 shipped) to use in the Panther. I was originally thinking I might try the new HET 90mm fan, but based on what I have seen so far, I think I am going with the midi pro and 8s 4000 mah batteries.
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Old Dec 19, 2008, 01:10 PM
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The Mega 30/3 is a good motor, up to ca. 1500-1600W or so, then you start entering white smoke territory. The epoxy holding the windings in place vaporizes. Mega has a new high temp series out though.

I would use an 8S 2500 battery though, 8S 4000's turns the Panther into a flying brick.

Btw all Aeronaut prototypes flew on 4S 3200's Kokams. Yes, that is 4S. Lighter is better .

If you want to fly longer, get a second or third evo 2500 8S pack. That is how I do it. And who was it that said edf was cheap?
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Old Dec 19, 2008, 03:10 PM
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Hmmm. I have to re-think my strategy then. Yes, the 8s 4000mah battereis are about 2 lbs or so but I thought it would be OK since this airframe is so light.

I fly the Mega 30/3 in a FlyFly Sabre in a midi fan on 8s and it draws around 50 amps and 1300W, but flight times are only around 4 minutes are so. Now mind you that Sabre is pretty draggy, so the throttle is open a good bit of the time. On 8s 2500 though, it seems like my flight times would be awful short, no? I calculate 2.5 minutes of WOT with a 20% reserve.
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Old Dec 19, 2008, 03:53 PM
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Just for kicks : I once flew my Panther for 7minutes at an average of 200W. Ambient temp was ~40degF and no wind.

800-1kW is ideal for this airframe IMHO. But I'm no power junkie, scale performance is also nice
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Old Dec 19, 2008, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socomon
... FlyFly Sabre in a midi fan on 8s ... Now mind you that Sabre is pretty draggy ...
Yes please - there is absolutely no comparison ...

I will refrain here from doing analogies so as to not offend anybody ...
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Old Dec 19, 2008, 08:47 PM
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Heres mine with my upgrades and the take off was without a bungie!
Old system:
Mega 22/30/3t
Hacker esc 77
8 cell Maxamp 4000 packs
Midi fan!

Here's what I've changed to this day!

Motor: Neumotor 15153D (Thanks Herb and Tam for fan mounting and motor tips!!!)
ESC: CCHV85
Fan Unit: DS51
Pwr: 10s Evo 3700

Resulting in 2500 watts!
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Old Dec 21, 2008, 02:24 PM
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Looks good Andrew ... now time to put wheels on it
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 08:04 PM
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Did everyone use Hysol to put their Panther together or did anyone use regular epoxy? I went to the hobby store to get Hysol, but you have to buy the twin tube of Hysol for $12, then a big caulk gun looking dispenser thing for $25 and then nozzles for more money. It seemed kind of crazy. How about Gorilla glue?

Steve
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 08:12 PM
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5-min, 30 min and laminating epoxy (z-poxy brand).

Btw, Hysol is epoxy. With an added thickening agent (which you can add to any regular epoxy as well).

And you can squeeze most epoxies through a $75 epoxy mixing applicator, just like you do for hysol (see the composite store offerings).
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 08:16 PM
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So, for example - when I install the horizontal stab, would 30 minte epoxy be appropriate? Would I need to add a thickening agent for that? When would I need the thickener? Are microballons a thickener or something else?

Sorry for all the questions, this is something new to me.
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 08:19 PM
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Thyxotropic agents prevent running, microballons are a different ingredient which adds volume.

For the Panther stab you need neither, just good quality 30 min epoxy applied with care

Running of the laminating epoxy (which is generally thinner) can occasionally be a problem when you install formers, depends how you work and how you apply it.
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 08:23 PM
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Ok - I am with you so far. What part of the Panther build requires the thickener, if any? Any brand name of thickener I should look for?
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 08:34 PM
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None that I can think of.

You can use a bit microbaloons if the parts don't fit well or if you are making your own.

On the Panther everything fits, and even the original designer (Joerg Rehm aka JRehm) seems to use very small amounts of epoxy:

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...?t=9830&page=2
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Old Apr 25, 2009, 01:33 PM
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This neat video of the Aeronaut Panther was posted a week ago ... Lambert mini-turbine.

To bad for the annoying loud music. Also, the air system leaked so the gear did not come out - should have used Springairs

.

Aeronaut Grumman F9-F "Panther" (3 min 31 sec)
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haldor View Post
Just for kicks : I once flew my Panther for 7minutes at an average of 200W. Ambient temp was ~40degF and no wind.

800-1kW is ideal for this airframe IMHO. But I'm no power junkie, scale performance is also nice
Digging this one up from the grave, but I just kicked off the EDF flying season today with a couple of flights on my Aeronaut Panther, and it was a lot of fun getting this old bird back in the air again. I have swapped out the power system since I last had it in the air (a couple of years ago) and it is now got way more power than really needed. This particular model started life with a DS-51 with a Hacker B50-10XL running on 18 1950mAh FAUP cells which gave me 4 min. of 750W, later on it was flying on a 5S 6000mAh TP pack and then a 5S 4900 20C XCell pack, bumping power slightly to 850W.

I now have a Midifan/ARC 3655 1.5Y combo running on a 6S 40C 4000 pack, this put out 2.8kg thrust on my test stand using this tailpipe (25cm Wemo fiberglass) and pulled 1550W. The power on tap is just silly, I cruise on 1/3 and if using full throttle in a vertical it shoots off, I think I have like 1.25/1 in thrust to weight ratio so it's kinda fun really

But it really does not need more than 1kW to be fun, anything above that is just not needed and rarely used even though a 400m vertical accelerating climb is a bit fun. Now it only needs a fresh paint job and it's ready for the coming season.
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 01:32 PM
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Steve, I don't completely agree with Herb. The professionals use Hysol. Don't you think that if they could save money they would use epoxy instead?

For 20 years I have been using epoxy, 6 min, 30 min, thickening agents, even thinning it with alcohol in certain cases. I love epoxy, but now when I want a strong joint I use Hysol. I even use the fast curing Hysol in certain applications. The stuff is stronger than the material it bonds and you're not going to break a Hysol glue joint with plyers, like epoxy.

I don't have to know the component makeup of the elements that go into the making of Hysol, however, I do know that Hysol is stronger than normal epoxy, much stronger than normal epoxy. That is why the professionals use it, they can count on it to make a good glue joint.

Al


Quote:
Originally Posted by Socomon View Post
So, for example - when I install the horizontal stab, would 30 minte epoxy be appropriate? Would I need to add a thickening agent for that? When would I need the thickener? Are microballons a thickener or something else?

Sorry for all the questions, this is something new to me.
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 02:08 PM
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I wound up using Hysol and it worked well. I have used it on a few planes since. It is good stuff to work with.
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arngeir Blakseth View Post
...started life with a DS-51 with a Hacker B50-10XL ...
That is one brick of a motor

It is a very lightweight airframe ... Keep in mind that the prototype took off from short wet grass - sliding on it's belly - at 600W !

A video of Joerg's prototype is on the Aeronaut web page.

One problem I heard with setups above 1200W is the intakes imploding, the wings flying off, and the light thin tail flexing

I suppose on yours you don't have gear?

There's an impressive video a few posts back of one flying at 1100W but without gear - handlaunch.

If you add gear then the extra weight and drag requires you to have a bit more power, ca. 1000W or thereabouts.

Did you take a video of yours, that would be nice?

Short video of my Aeronaut Panther at El Toro MCAS in Irvine, 2005 :

F9F Panther EDF 90mm by Aeronaut (1 min 12 sec)


That same day I took a video of Joe McBride's F/A-18 - A couple of months after that the field was closed.

F/A-18 Hornet turbine by Yellow Aircraft (5 min 57 sec)
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb View Post
That is one brick of a motor

It is a very lightweight airframe ... Keep in mind that the prototype took off from short wet grass - sliding on it's belly - at 600W !

A video of Joerg's prototype is on the Aeronaut web page.

One problem I heard with setups above 1200W is the intakes imploding, the wings flying off, and the light thin tail flexing

I suppose on yours you don't have gear?

There's an impressive video a few posts back of one flying at 1100W but without gear - handlaunch.

If you add gear then the extra weight and drag requires you to have a bit more power, ca. 1000W or thereabouts.

Did you take a video of yours, that would be nice?

Short video of my Aeronaut Panther at El Toro MCAS in Irvine, 2005 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgS94yszg3I

That same day I took a video of Joe McBride's F/A-18 - A couple of months after that the field was closed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoipfg8kGAk
I know about the Hacker motor, I originally got it and a Kontronik esc for a speed boat, but the Kontronik esc did not like that use too much so the motor ended up in the Panther instead. Not exactly the optimum use of the motor but it did work out ok, funny thing is my current setup is 250gram lighter, and power and duration have more than doubled, I put 1650mAh back into the 4000 pack after the first flight, and that probably lasted 5-6 minutes of easy flying, it's such a slippery and efficient airframe.

I don't have gear on mine and I use a bungee to launch, the intakes have some carbon tow as reinforcement and the carbon wing tubes has been beefed up as they started to crack on me after a while, I have another thick wall carbon tube epoxied into the existing tube and this has worked well so far.

The only video I have of this jet is very old, besides it looks awful right now as I'm currently prepping it for paint once the weather heats up a bit so it's not exactly pretty with spots of filler and areas where the blue paint have been sanded down all over. But will try to get some video shot once I get it painted and all dressed up.
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 08:58 PM
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... without gear it is a very lightweight & slippery airframe.

Did you see this recent A. Panther video (ca. 1000W) ? Panther clip starts at ca. 2:34

http://www.rcmovie.de/video/432ccf20f9fda2492b6f
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Old Apr 02, 2010, 02:04 AM
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I seen carl rich's Panther fly at Seff 08' and I was very impressed. His had retracts and yet it was very fast and very nimble. Aeronaut did a great job on this one. I'd like to try the airworld cougar out. Not the large turbine one, but the edf smaller one. Looks very nice.
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Old Jul 13, 2010, 10:33 PM
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One problem I heard with setups above 1200W is the intakes imploding, the wings flying off, and the light thin tail flexing
I can see where these could be an issue. It took a lot of hysol to keep my ducts from sucking-in. The tail definitely has a lot of flex to it when I grab the horizontal stab and wiggle it. I have not maidened mine yet (maybe next week), but that tail does have me a bit nervous.
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Old Jul 14, 2010, 09:34 AM
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Have you looked into any way of stiffening the tail before you fly it?
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Old Jul 14, 2010, 06:49 PM
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It seems like it could use another former in the fusleage near the exhaust and maybe some carbon fiber in the tail to stiffen it up.
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Old Jul 14, 2010, 09:03 PM
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I filled mine with expanding urethane sealer all around the intake ducts. The kind used for house insulation. Worked great with the applicator tip provided. I also made a former ring to locate and hold the thrust tube in the rear. Mine was midi with Kontronic 600-17 on 6s 3200 cells.
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Old Jul 14, 2010, 09:44 PM
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The urethane is a good idea. The weight of all the hysol added up and mine is going to be a bit of a porker.
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Old Jul 15, 2010, 03:33 PM
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My Panther got a bit of damage earlier when I was flying it at the Electric Jet meet at Greve in Denmark, so now I have the perfect excuse to do some small modifications to it. I will reinforce the attachment of the tail section, adding some fiberglass to the area around the screw in the back, and I also think I will use a pair of BVM canopy hooks, one on each side halway between the fan former and the rear end. The problem on mine is not lack of strength in the tail itself, but more the fact that the tail is only attached with one dowel in the front, and a single 3mm screw in the rear (as per the instructions) so it can flex a lot from side to side. That's what I will stop by using the canopy hooks, with some reinforcement of the flanges I think that will do the trick.

I will also cut out and make the speed brakes operational as I'm struggling to get this thing slowed down when it's time for a landing. I need some additional drag to help getting it down, our local club field does not permit the long shallow approaches this thing needs now. It should not be too hard hooking them up to a servo and making them functional, only thing I have to remember is to retract them before touchdown
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Old Jul 15, 2010, 08:51 PM
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I also think I will use a pair of BVM canopy hooks, one on each side halway between the fan former and the rear end.
Please post some photos of that when you do it.

Here is a photo of my bird's 'innards'. Nothing fancy. I mounted the ESC on the formers that hold the ducting.

For the canopy, I used the latch and dowel they provided. It isn't going anywhere.

I am not going to paint the plane and pretty it up until I see how it flies.

I am running a Neu motor and the Aeronaut c/f fan. I have tested it on 6s-8s. I will probably go with 7s. My batteries are on the big side, which is most of what is making this plane a porker, but I did not feel like buying new batteries, so . . .

Steve
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Old Jul 16, 2010, 05:15 AM
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Please post some photos of that when you do it.

I am running a Neu motor and the Aeronaut c/f fan. I have tested it on 6s-8s. I will probably go with 7s. My batteries are on the big side, which is most of what is making this plane a porker, but I did not feel like buying new batteries, so . . .

Steve
Will post pictures here when I get the modifications done.


Now, how much power do you have in your setup? I'm using a 6S and is pulling 72A, power is about 1600W. It is a rocket with this much power so if you have much more on tap on 7S I may suggest using a 6S to start off with.
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Old Jul 16, 2010, 05:29 AM
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I think 7s gave me somewhere around 1800w, so I could drop it back down to 6s. I was going to try to ROG rather than bungee, so I wasn't sure of 6s would be enough to get it moving over the grass.
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Old Jul 19, 2010, 08:11 AM
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Can any of you flying this plane tell me where your elevator was (relative to the stab) after you trimmed it out for level flight? I ended up with some down-throw and I suspect I did not have the CG quite correct (too far aft maybe).

BTW - ROG was no problem on 6 cells.
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Old Jul 19, 2010, 09:08 PM
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About 1/16" down on the elevator, it's a design flaw by Aeronaut, the incidence on the tail is wrong. CG and throws is set per the manual and the plane handles very nicely.
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Old Jul 19, 2010, 09:13 PM
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Yep 1/16 down, same on mine(RIP) Herbs and Andrews over here in cali.
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Old Jul 30, 2010, 08:00 PM
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... where your elevator was ... I ended up with some down-throw and I suspect I did not have the CG quite correct ...


Yes it needs downtrim, See above :

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=194

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=81

Quote:
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...The trim was close, with 1.5 mm of down trim as per the instructions (the elevator incidence is wrong) .
.
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Old May 20, 2012, 06:19 PM
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Finish is one $3 Model Master spray can of aluminum plate buffing metalizer, applied directly to the cleaned gelcoat surface, buffed and sealed with Future water based acrylic.
Hi Herb,

I have to pull up this old (but perfect!) thread as the time to finish my Aronaut Panther comes closer ans closer.

I read that the Aluminium finish of Modelmaster is one of the best , if you compare the result and the difficulty to use, so I probably will try the MM paint.
(maybe Alclad could be even better, but evtl. more difficult to apply, ...don't know??)

One question is still left: I don't know if your Panther was already equipped with a 2.4 Ghz RC but am I right that the MM metalizer series contain real metal pieces?
As we all know 2.4 Ghz systems are much more sensible regarding these kind of shields than the 35 Mhz systems have been. Did you note any negative effect of the metalizer paint regading the range or the signal quality of your RC system?

kind regards from Germany

Holger
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Old May 21, 2012, 12:17 PM
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How much are the Panthers now and who has them in US?
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Old May 21, 2012, 12:39 PM
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Hi Herb,

I have to pull up this old (but perfect!) thread as the time to finish my Aronaut Panther comes closer ans closer.

I read that the Aluminium finish of Modelmaster is one of the best , if you compare the result and the difficulty to use, so I probably will try the MM paint.
(maybe Alclad could be even better, but evtl. more difficult to apply, ...don't know??) ...
Hi Holger,

I am not 100% sure (I would have to read my thread ) but I think at the time I used Tamiya Silverleaf spray which I knew was superb, because I had it used it before. One advantage is that it is very easy to use. I did not like the MM metallics at all, but maybe some are ok.

Later I did some very minor weathering, and applied a few coats of Future (it is a Johnson Wax product and has different name in Europe).

.
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Old May 21, 2012, 12:43 PM
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... One question is still left: I don't know if your Panther was already equipped with a 2.4 Ghz RC but am I right that the MM metalizer series contain real metal pieces?
As we all know 2.4 Ghz systems are much more sensible regarding these kind of shields than the 35 Mhz systems have been. Did you note any negative effect of the metalizer paint regading the range or the signal quality of your RC system?

kind regards from Germany Holger
Holger, not sure ... I would play it safe and keep the 2.4GHz antennas in an area where it will not be shielded by any metallic paint. That would be either the cockpit area or the tail. There are ways of putting the antenna even inside the cockpit frame.
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Old May 21, 2012, 12:44 PM
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How much are the Panthers now and who has them in US?
http://www.icare-rc.com/catalog/grum...er-p-1820.html (ok not quite US).
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Old May 21, 2012, 04:18 PM
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Hi Herb,

thanks a lot

Your Panther is a real beauty (I hope she's still well!) and I'll be happy if mine will finally look half as good as yours (you know, all kind of paint is hating me )!

Regarding your post #78 and #721 I wasn't sure which paint you finally used.
Even if you made it with the Tamyia silver leaf spray, did you seal the paint and the decals with this "Future" acrylic as you describe in the "Modelmaster" post #78 or did you use an other seal? Afaik the Tamyia paint is waterbased so a waterbased clear paint would be the right choice in this case.
And (important!) : As many decals have problems to stick on semi gloss or matt surfaces, do Ralles decals stick directly on this silver leaf or do the need a clear coating before applying the decals?
I will order the decals from Ralle as well. I heard so many positive comments about his products an his service, I think one can't go wrong! I know that Ralle as well finished a Panther which is really breathtaking, but I neither have the skill nor the time to create something like this.

You idea to place the antennas in the cockpit cutout outside the fuselage and to only "cover" them with the canopy is brilliant! Hmmm...I could fix them on a small 90 "V" bracket which comes trough a small slit somewhere behind the pilot seat when I mount the canopy ! I'll check this!
The alternative would have been to apply something like this but beautyness must be something else

Holgi
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Old May 21, 2012, 06:19 PM
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Hi Holger,

I am pretty sure I used Tamiya Silver Leaf in the end, which is a superb paint.



No, you are right, you can't apply decals on it, it needs to be sealed with Future (I think now called Pledge?) first



The decals will stick well to the Future, and can be later sealed with the Future as well.

Ralle has a whole line of fantastic products, but I myself have drifted almost complely to water-based (acrylic) products primarily for long term health reasons.

His decals are second to none, recently I used him again for my Me-262 :

.
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Old May 22, 2012, 10:37 AM
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herb outstanding work on both of these planes
love the panther and me 262... you do really nice work my brother
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Old May 22, 2012, 06:48 PM
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Hi Herb,

thanks for the info! A friend of mine is working as a stewardess for Lufthansa. She will come to LA next week and will look for Future for me.
I suppose it can be found in every supermarket?
I think you are right. The new name seems to be "Pledge" (see pic, the Pledge bottle even wears the small Future logo).

Hi Ron,

nice to meet you here The last time we "met" was in the T-45 Thread, unfortunately with tragic results for me
This bad experience is the reason why I decided to build a plane this time which is known to fly absolutely awsome without any bad habits. Just a relaxing jet this time!
Having seen so many Kolibri equipped Panthers with retracts and without meanwhile I'm sure that this is the plane!

BTW: I don't want to start the discussion which kind of engines, turbine or EDF is "better". My answer is simply "none of them is "better" or "worse". Both kind of engines have made an incredible developement the last years and offer something to suit everyone's taste.
It just happend that one day I met Martin Lambert, and got to know him as a very fine guy which lives for his little magical machines. It's not just a job for him it's a real passion. The next years I had incredible fun with my Kolibri powered MPX Twinjet.
Maybe things may have gone different if I met Daniel Schuebeler first...
So the engine is secondary I think and I don't want to bother you with turbine details in this thread - sorry for OT

Back to topic: I actually build the retract version and found some nice struts from EPF for their DSR-46 which suit almost perfect.
I used the telescope struts for the main gear and the trail type for the nosegear.
The struts com complete with wheels for a very cheap price. The DSR-mechanism I didn't use due to some not so good comments in the web, so I prefered to trust my springair 602.
I attached some pics. As you see I added Flaps (more a "want to have" than a "must have" ) and also a small hatch in the rear section.
As a turbine needs a little more "care" than an EDF I wanted to have a quick access to look after it during start up (e.g. flamestart, leakages ....).
Never had a problem like this with my Kolibri even one time but it's just a better feeling

Holgi
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Old May 23, 2012, 01:04 PM
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Hi Herb, thanks for the info! A friend of mine is working as a stewardess for Lufthansa. She will come to LA next week and will look for Future for me. [...] Holgi
... known I think in Europe as SCJohnson Pronto Floor wax (Baumarkt), maybe no need to get your stewardess friend arrested by the tsa for carrying strange fluids on an airliner

http://www.modellbaufarben.de/

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

http://www.scjohnson.de/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=5543

I like this Future stuff

.
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Old May 25, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Herb, it is a testament to your skills that this thread is still going over 3000 days later.
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Old May 25, 2012, 05:15 PM
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San Salvador, El Salvador
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I know this is the Aeronaut Panther thread but that is cool 163! Is it scratchbuilt or a kit?
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Old May 27, 2012, 01:32 PM
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Hi Jim and Mario, thanks

The Me-163 Kraftei is a kit (actually an ARF) that can be bought at various places:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1557491&pp=100

It is rather well made and a lot of fun to fly (video 1pL6LFneCMA on youtube). I repainted the whole thing...
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 10:16 AM
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I just picked up a Aeronaut Panther that just need a bit more assembly. Last night I taped off and sanded the cockpit hatch and is ready for paint. Does anyone now the best paint to match the dark blue? Also I keep looking at the single mount screw for the rear tail surface hatch and it got's me a little worried. I know Aeronaut make excellent kits but a single screw for the entire rear hatch seems weak to me. Has anyone had a problem with this screw letting go in flight? I was thinking about reinforcing the mount with carbon fiber and using 2 screws just wondering what others have done? The Panther came with a wemo and a kontronic 1800Kv motor but I got a Jetfan 90 with a Het 700-68-1680 that could run on 6 to 8 cells but I'm going with 6s for now should be more then enough power for this light frame. My next step is to reinforce the inlet ducts to strengthen them because they very weak.
Thanks for any help you could give me on the paint and tail mount! Pic's Below
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 10:51 AM
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I added a small plywood plate to the inside of the rear fuselage to reinforce the screw mount, and that single screw has been doing fine. But I have now added one BVM canopy hook on either side a bit forward to help keep the sides of the rear fuselage in place, it could wiggle a little bit from side to side.
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Arngeir Blakseth View Post
I added a small plywood plate to the inside of the rear fuselage to reinforce the screw mount, and that single screw has been doing fine. But I have now added one BVM canopy hook on either side a bit forward to help keep the sides of the rear fuselage in place, it could wiggle a little bit from side to side.
I did use the metal spring loaded latch but I see what you mean I guess I could use some alignment pins on the side to secure the canopy hatch.

Arngeir

I got another question I bought this kit as is no instructions I downloaded the ones off Aeronauts web-site but their description of the kit and on the website are pretty vague. The kit I have is for bungee launching or can rise off grass no retract mounts at all so I believe it's an early kit. Their are no forward bulkheads from the wings forward do you know if this is normal for the kit I Have?

Thanks
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 02:00 PM
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Does anyone now the best paint to match the dark blue? ...
Hi Bad ... You were very LUCKY to find one !

The blue paint is very close to the right navy blue ...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=25

I would take a piece of the Panther (ie elevator) to a local hobby shop and see if any of the Tamiya or Model Master dark navy blues are a close match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadLemon View Post
... Also I keep looking at the single mount screw for the rear tail surface hatch and it got's me a little worried. I know Aeronaut make excellent kits but a single screw for the entire rear hatch seems weak to me. Has anyone had a problem with this screw letting go in flight? I was thinking about reinforcing the mount with carbon fiber and using 2 screws just wondering what others have done? ...
I never went with just the single screw (although I might have put one in there). The problem is the tail has to sit nice an tight otherwise you have a) trim problems or b) vibration issues. I therefore glued my tail on with a long bead of silicone glue on both sides. I believe I used the screw (or just tape) to hold the tail down nice and tight until the silicone ("GE Silicone II") cured.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=27

You only need to remove the tail if your fan blows up, or is otherwise damaged, On mine I was lucky enough that this never happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadLemon View Post
... The Panther came with a Wemo and a kontronic 1800Kv motor but I got a Jetfan 90 with a Het 700-68-1680 that could run on 6 to 8 cells but I'm going with 6s for now should be more then enough power for this light frame. My next step is to reinforce the inlet ducts to strengthen them because they very weak. ...
I would not consider more than 6S for this airframe as it is very LIGHT and with very efficient ducting !

Recent shiny chinese offering have given composites a very BAD name (ie lead sled), but this Panther is in a completely different class.

You could use the Wemo fan (the EVO will have a more pleasant sound) but I would reserve that Kontronic as a paper weight The JF / Het combo looks good if it can deliver something around 2000W (which will be plenty).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadLemon View Post
... l so I believe it's an early kit. Their are no forward bulkheads from the wings forward do you know if this is normal for the kit I Have?
Yes it seems you have an early kit, which flies just as well though Installing lightweight retracts is not difficult, since there are nice ply formers to anchor to, and there's easy access through the canopy (for the nose gear). All in all, an easy retract conversion.

I miss my Panther !
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 06:24 PM
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My kit also is of the first version, intended for bungee, years later they came out with the second version which has formers for retracts. No bulkheads from the wing forward, this is normal on the bungee version. All I have done to mine is reinforce the bottom of the forward fuselage with a layer of fiberglass (110gram/m2) and some carbon tow on the ducts as they got sucked in. And glue in a plywood plate for the battery.

Btw, it's not the canopy that I added the hooks to, it's between the main fuselage and the rear section, this is a recent mod though, I have been flying it for years without this so it's not a necessity, it's just a personal preference. It does help stabilize the rear section so it can't wiggle from side to side at all, and it almost removes the unsightly gap between the two parts as the fit is not perfect on my plane with just the wooden dowel in the front and the single screw in the back holding the two fuselage parts together. The sides on the rear section bows out and up slightly on my Panther.

I flew mine for several years on 700-750W on 18 NiMh cells and it did very well, later on I got some Lipo's and doubled my flight time with a bit less weight, with just a little increase in power. In recent years I have been running it on a 6S 4000 pack, with 1400W of power. I get 8-10 minutes on this combo, it needs so little power due to the light weight and low drag, it really glides very well this plane. 1400W is really not necessary though, 1000-1200W is plenty good enough. Of course, if you install retracts and increase the weight, a bit more power might come in handy but it does not need 2000W to fly like a rocketship, it's a farily small and very efficient airframe.
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 09:01 PM
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Herb

Ya I got lucky with this find for sure as soon as I saw I up for sale I jumped on it! I also got lucky because another flyer from our club was going up to deliver a jet to the seller of the panther so I did have to pay for shipping, the stars where aligned for me that day! I agree the 6s setup is more then plenty for this light frame. using RTV on the rear hatch is a good idea would hold well be still be able to remove it if necessary. Lastly you said you miss yours did you sell it or loose it in a crash?

Arngeir

Now I get what your saying that a good idea as well. I've got some 4000 6s packs as well running the numbers I should get over 1500 watts and like you and Herb have said the panther has a every efficient ducting and air frame I should get 6 to 7 minutes flights times easy.

I've been working on mounting the edf unit I made a plywood ring with horizontal rail mounts I've got it mocked up and curing right now. My attention is back on the rear hatch screw I found reading over the instructions that there are 2 plywood pieces to reinforce the mount. I can add the reinforcement piece to the fuselage but the nut is already glued to the top of the hatch so I'm going to cut the nut loose to add the reinforcement.

I got one more question how did you guys mount the wings to the fuselage? The instructions use packing tape, which is fine but it just seems a little tacky for such a fine kit. Gluing would
would be the strongest mounting solution but that is permanent. So I'm running some solutions through my head for the wing.....


Thanks for the Help!
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 09:10 PM
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I always just used tape to fix my wings, not elegant but easy to take them off for transport and storage.
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Old Mar 23, 2014, 11:02 PM
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I like the idea of being able to remove the wings once I made a coupler out of collars, allen head screws and a carbon fiber tube to couple the back half of a Alfa Models Ta-183 to the front half of the fuselage. This worked out very well for the Ta-183 so I'm working out a setup for that.


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I always just used tape to fix my wings, not elegant but easy to take them off for transport and storage.
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Old Mar 29, 2014, 12:59 PM
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I used tape (transparent Graupner hinge tape) to secure the wings to the fuse. I put the tape on the bottom only.

Before that, I spread a thin layer of GE Silicone on both sides of the wing joint area (or maybe it was just on the two carbon rods). This achieves two things, a) is eliminates any play or slide in the joint, and b) it makes a real solid joint which can be undone, just by pulling hard enough.

Yes indeed the Panther will fly very well with little power (800W or so w/o retracts and 1200W or so with), it is a very slippery airframe.
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Old Mar 30, 2014, 12:41 PM
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This guy put a small Kolibri T-35 turbine in the Aeronaut Panther and clocked it at 249 mph (400 km/h) ... He claims on a T-25 if was only 236 mph so speed expectations are relative .

http://www.turbinenshop.com/Lambert-...ostart-Version

Yes, he did glue the wings in No dangers of intakes collapsing either ...

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...=1#post3382791

I can see Trevor's next little project
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Old Mar 30, 2014, 01:25 PM
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BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
935 Posts
Now that is impressive! and that is a big price tag on that micro turbine! but would be cool to own one.

Speaking about the intakes I pickup some carbon tow last night and I was looking over the best way to get to the backside of the intakes. To me it seems it will be a little tricky to get a good bead of epoxy on the carbon tow any suggestions?
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Old Mar 30, 2014, 02:09 PM
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Arngeir Blakseth's Avatar
Molde, Norway
Joined Jan 2001
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I used thin ca, wrap the tow around the duct dry and tack one end onto the duct then tighten up the wrap and tack the other end before soaking the rest with ca. Easy peasy.
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Old Mar 30, 2014, 03:51 PM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
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Yes that does sound the best way I have tip extentions for ca bottles that should help getting the ca to the back of the duct. It would of been a lot easier to wrap the duct before installing it into the fuselage or was the duct previously install at the factory.
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Old Mar 30, 2014, 04:14 PM
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Arngeir Blakseth's Avatar
Molde, Norway
Joined Jan 2001
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Comes preinstalled.
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Old Mar 30, 2014, 04:47 PM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
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The Aeronaut panther kit is an extremely High end kit for sure but I have to say the intake ducts are the downfall to this kit. They are very flimsy paper thin flimsy even for a low watt system back in the day. I just put a crack in the backside of the duct feeding the carbon tow around it. So now I'm going to cut and install a fiberglass patch to reinforce the crack.
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Old Mar 30, 2014, 08:02 PM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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+1 on the ducts! Back in the day I had a Jepe Spiderfan in my Aeronaut and on the first run-up both ducts collapsed Man that was a sweet carbon fan though!!
Chris
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Old Mar 30, 2014, 08:50 PM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
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Chris

Did you run with out the ducts or get new ones. I did a search to see if anybody made some fiberglass replacements but came up with nothing. I've got a Jetfan 90 going into it but first I'm thinking of running a flyfly fan unit to test the ducts.


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Originally Posted by Downwind3Zero View Post
+1 on the ducts! Back in the day I had a Jepe Spiderfan in my Aeronaut and on the first run-up both ducts collapsed Man that was a sweet carbon fan though!!
Chris
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Old Apr 01, 2014, 02:33 PM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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They split and collapsed at the seam. I put GF strip along the seam to repair it and then CF tow around the ducts. Held up w/o problems.
Chris
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 09:10 AM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downwind3Zero View Post
They split and collapsed at the seam. I put GF strip along the seam to repair it and then CF tow around the ducts. Held up w/o problems.
Chris
Great sounds like what I'm doing I ran cf tow along the seam and then wrapped around the duct. I also glued a piece of thin carbon fiber patch I cut from a defect Auto Meter Tach dial. Good thing working a gauge company that makes gauges with carbon fiber dials their is a lot of scrap that works great for making parts like this one.
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 09:24 AM
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Doug Bateman's Avatar
Swarthmore, PA 19081
Joined Dec 2004
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When I had mine, I encased the intake duct exteriors with expanding spray foam insulation. The kind from home depot for sealing leaky doorframes and electrical outlets. Made it solid and much quieter. Weight gain was minimal. The Panther was one of the most efficient airframes and ducting I have ever seen. I ran mine at 1000-1200 watts @ 6S and it scooted. Takeoff was bungee but later I just sat it on the grass and let her rip. Great little jet.
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Old Apr 02, 2014, 10:40 AM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
1,507 Posts
Yeah man, great little jet!! I now remember doing the foam like you did around the lip intake Doug.
Here's mine in 2006...
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