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Old Aug 13, 2005, 09:06 AM
Purple power
gregg f's Avatar
shadow hills,ca
Joined Apr 2000
6,594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lebdog
Gregg:

The reason I was most specifically considering the B50 is that I have a large credit with Hacker for something they returned today. Is the B50 not a good motor? I would love your experience. I was thinking of actually even going B50-10L?

What do you think? TIA!
The Hacker is very good. Use up some of that credit! Like Bob mentioned the B50-15l would work well.

I use the 13xl in the Bandito and it's awesome! However it would be overkill in this airframe.
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 09:09 AM
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Elizabethtown/Ft. Knox, Kentucky, United States
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That's the one bad thing about the Panther. The intakes are very thin and mine were not glued to the former.

I mixed up some Polyurethane glue with micro balloons to make it thick enough not to run. I put a bead of it where the intake touches the wood former. That made it quite stiff and worked very well.

Jim
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 01:01 PM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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Well I fixed the ducting and reinforced the opposite one w/ a whole lot of epoxy and glass tape. Confident it will hold now.
Chris
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 02:54 PM
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Century City, CA
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregg f
I use the 13xl in the Bandito and it's awesome! However it would be overkill in this airframe.
Overkill or too much fun!!!

As you know Gregg, I have long time been contemplating this model. After losing my T33 at an electric meet long ago, I pretty much swore that this would be the next EDF for me. I like the Sniper, but I know that at the speeds I would fly it, it would be like flying blind most of the time. This F-9 on the other hand is of substancial size and provides now for landing gear. My F86 is fun, but I'm an adrenaline junkie and need more, really a lot more...

Hence, we arrive at my build of the F-9. If you run the 13XL in the Bandito, Gregg, then maybe the 13L is good for the Panther.
How many cells do you run in the Bandito and how many Amps does it pull WOT? I am not gonna fly in the infield with this model so I don't want anyone to worry, but I really want to build an EDF which really, really performs as your Bandito does. Hopefully the higher drag of the Panther doesn't all together prevent this. Is the 8L too many amps too much fun? I really want to know. I won't fly WOT the entire flight only for a few moments or so from time to time, hopefully in to the path of a radar gun!

Thanks for your input and advice! I need it, I don't know everything; but I'm not afraid of much - a lethal combination.

Has anyone put a rudder in to this model?
Looking at pictures, it seems almost impossible due to the elevator setup.

Downwind:
Quite impressive numbers from the Jepe Fan/Motor!
Is that motor really capable of taking the 6S?
On the Jepe sites they only rate it's output between 600-800watts?
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 03:29 PM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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lebdog: the numbers on the Jepe site are for the 2W motor, which is meant for 5S. This combination has the 3W motor in it and as far as I know no numbers exist for this setup. Most use the 5S here too. If the max Amp draw is below 50, I fugure it will be OK for that motor. I will definately NOT be flying WOT with 1050W as I'm sure it wouldn't be good for the motor in the long run (and it won't be necessary either). It is a very nice prebalanced fan though!!
Chris
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Old Aug 13, 2005, 03:30 PM
Purple power
gregg f's Avatar
shadow hills,ca
Joined Apr 2000
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Caleb:
The 13l would be closer to a 5s set up.
1500-1600kv = 6s
1700-1800kv = is better suited to a 5s imo.
Any of these run well in the Midi fan.

The 13xl runs on 9s and requires a Ds51 3ph.

Btw:
When you get the kit I have the instructions in English on a word doc.
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Old Aug 14, 2005, 03:00 PM
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Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
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Reinforcing the DUCT at the INTAKES is a must, as Jim says you need to run a bead of polyurethane glue outside the intakes (not inside) so it gets properly anchored to the lip and whatever else is around it (I forget). There's a pictures of this up in this thread.

You need high quality BALL LINKS at the ELEVATOR linkage,

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...hmentid=188316

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...hmentid=188319

the elevator is tiny and you need extremely precise movement. The other alternative that works well is like Gregg's with a servo arm sticking out one side of the tail + an elevator joiner. This is CRUCIAL.

Re questions about how a three year old HACKER B50-18S (200+flights) on 6S Poly might work in the Panther, you might want to look at this recent Panther video:

Panther rog video (17MB)
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Old Aug 14, 2005, 03:16 PM
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Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruff
I used Zap-A-Gap-A- Goo on the flats plus the stock pin & screw to attach the tail. I think that is what Herb did with his. I used tape to keep the wing from sliding.also.
Bob
I used GE Silicone II to glue the tail to the fuse. It might be more easily removable this way than with the Goo, it just peels off cleanly if you ever need to remove it. The Goo might be a lot more sticky, and perhaps messy.

I also kept that tiny screw in the back, just for looks .
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Old Aug 14, 2005, 07:16 PM
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Herb what battery set up are you using in the panther for the B50-18S??

Gene
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Old Aug 14, 2005, 10:22 PM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
1,507 Posts
Thanks for the input Herb. My left intake split along the seam from front to back, the lip didn't fail, I have however reinforced the lip according to your method - thank you! Although different from yours, my elevator linkage is stiff and has no slop at all Elevator linkage so I guess I'll stick with it.
Very nice Video!!!!!!
Regards, Chris
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Old Aug 15, 2005, 04:53 AM
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lebdog's Avatar
Century City, CA
Joined Jan 2004
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Here's my question then Herb and others:
(I really appreciate any advice or experience in your reply)

Is there any reason the B50-11L (only 200 higher kv than Herbs) won't kick bootie in this Panther (wiith a 77amp speed controller)?

I want an electric jet which can give the average turbine a run for it's money and am willing to work for it! Is the 8L possible for this airframe or is that just too hot - really?
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Old Aug 15, 2005, 05:15 PM
Purple power
gregg f's Avatar
shadow hills,ca
Joined Apr 2000
6,594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lebdog

I want an electric jet which can give the average turbine a run for it's money and am willing to work for it! Is the 8L possible for this airframe or is that just too hot - really?
You'll need a different airframe for that.
Pre spring air conversion top speed was around 110+mph. With spring air conversion probably around a 100mph tops on 1200w.

This is not a FAST airframe. It is slippery and scale like, which is the flight envelope it does best.
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Old Aug 15, 2005, 09:10 PM
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lebdog's Avatar
Century City, CA
Joined Jan 2004
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This is my favorite EDF, it's a shame there aren't more EDF models out there. I would love a F/P 80! Are there any more Bandito's out there?

I think that I would be happy with the performance from this EDF, I see from Gregg that it just can't keep up with the turbs though. I thank everyone for their assistance and will continue to research this project.

I was wondering how those cut outs would support +100 Mph winds pulling them apart. Basically isn't that what's happening to the cutouts for the retracts. Aren't they taking a lot of turbulence abuse?

Again thanks and I'm sure no one has heard the last of me!
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Old Aug 29, 2005, 04:14 PM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
1,507 Posts
Got going again after vacation.
Installed fan and tube.
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Old Aug 30, 2005, 02:48 PM
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Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lebdog
Here's my question then Herb and others:
... I want an electric jet which can give the average turbine a run for it's money ...
When you will see an EDF flying together with a turbine powered BVM toy you will realize how big the gap between turbines and edf's is .

The Panther is definitely not one of the fastest edfs, a sleek low drag high performance composite 90mm airframe such as the Aeronaut Rafale, Steve C's MiG-15 or the JePe F-16 will give you quite a bit more speed per Watt expended.

Still, you are talking 150mph or so max vs 200mph ++ in a much larger airframe.

Now that doesn't mean that there aren't turbines that are fairly slow, I have witnessed a few ones myself. I did see some mw44 stuff that staggered around in the sky, and for ex the Eurosport is usually not that fast either.


.
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Old Aug 31, 2005, 02:57 AM
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greddin's Avatar
Sydney Kingsford, Australia
Joined Oct 2001
525 Posts
Herb,

I just love the ROG video of the Panther - what a great performer! Thanks for posting.

Could you please advise what %FSA the inlets and exhaust are on this model? TIA.

Graham.
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Old Sep 08, 2005, 05:12 AM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
1,507 Posts
Lookin' for a pilot!

I've finished the cockpit but can't find a willing pilot to fly my panther . Any suggestions???
Chris
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Old Sep 08, 2005, 07:01 AM
Readiness is all
BadBilly's Avatar
Zrich
Joined Sep 2004
156 Posts
beautiful cockpit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Downwind3Zero
I've finished the cockpit but can't find a willing pilot to fly my panther . Any suggestions???
Chris

Hey Chris

maybe the pilot is scared, because the gun is a "Heckler & Koch MP5 short cal. 9 x 19 mm"

...you better find a willing pilot, cause the "chickenhill-event" is upcoming....

cheers
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Old Sep 08, 2005, 07:18 AM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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Hey, I'd hate to eject without a good piece with me
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Old Sep 08, 2005, 10:37 AM
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k_sonn's Avatar
Bellevue, WA
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downwind3Zero
I've finished the cockpit but can't find a willing pilot to fly my panther . Any suggestions???
Chris

If you go to my Aeronaut Panther build thread you will see the pilot I used. It is a 10th scale jet pilot from Century Jet Models.

Kirk
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Old Sep 08, 2005, 12:32 PM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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Thanks for the tip k_sonn! btw I've never seen such a piece of art like your Panther man!!!!
Chris
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Old Sep 08, 2005, 04:16 PM
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Chris,

Thanks. If you decide to get the pilot from CJM, tell them you want the pilot from the '50s era.

Later,
Kirk
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Old Sep 09, 2005, 10:33 AM
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Here's a link to video of my Panther.

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/show...0&ppuser=28119

Kirk
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Old Sep 11, 2005, 05:01 AM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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Starting to come together. Need to add the guns in front as cooling-inlets, battery tray etc. Wing fences were made from plexiglass and painted in flat aluminum. Still no willing pilot
Chris
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Old Sep 12, 2005, 07:25 AM
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Elizabethtown/Ft. Knox, Kentucky, United States
Joined Jan 2001
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Chris,
Looks great! You'll really like the way it flys. I don't think you will need the fences, it will land really slow. The fences do look nice, I may add them to mine.

Everyone at the field loves this jet.

Jim
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Old Sep 12, 2005, 08:08 AM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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Thanks Jim! As you guessed, I added them for looks but hey,I don't mind a slower stall speed either

Chris
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Old Sep 20, 2005, 06:33 AM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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I'm going for home plate! Finished the battery tray and most of the wiring. Shooting for maiden tomorrow - but I ain't gonna be pushin' my luck - it's either perfect conditions or it's a "no go" for this baby
Any final suggestions? (and I don't mean the mandatory Valium, Bicycle clips and Cheer leaders etc ... )

Chris
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Old Sep 20, 2005, 09:38 AM
Zoom-Zoom
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Switzerland, ZH, Dietikon
Joined Jun 2004
815 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downwind3Zero
Any final suggestions?
A pack of those new and improved Pampers should be mandatory.

Looking forward to seeing the beast live tomorrow (the weather forecast is looking good)!

Best regards - Paco
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Old Sep 20, 2005, 09:50 AM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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It's done and so am I 2390g @1050 W
Paco, I figured you'd come up w/ something like that
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 01:47 PM
It's like an addiction!
Downwind3Zero's Avatar
NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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No maiden today as the wind was kickin' around here
I was wondering where others have placed their antennas? Any pics?
Chris
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 05:13 PM
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Elizabethtown/Ft. Knox, Kentucky, United States
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Deans whip, just behind the canopy.

Jim
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 08:32 AM
EDF Head
Haldor's Avatar
Stavanger, Norway
Joined Feb 2000
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I have the antenna going into one of the wings and its completely hidden.
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 02:25 PM
Let er Rip
Pilot44's Avatar
Long Island, NY
Joined Oct 2003
3,111 Posts
Ok, here I go. Can't believe it. Been looking to do this coolest of jets but, things going on and life stuff. No time,

So up jumps this one on the other place. Grabbed it.... this is good.

Ok, need to get this together and hope you guys can give me a heads up on the power train stuff.

So heres some pics.

As of now:
Plan A: Hacker B50/16
At least 85 Amp, looking at CC HV85amp
No idea on a battery, (help)
came with Wemotec Midi fan, 001-5 thing (90mm)
Either Spring Air 602's or a set of gear from this fella larry who
makes some real great small/light spring air type retracts.

Sure would appreciate some thoughts from you good fellas..

Thanks

Jim
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 05:13 PM
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Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot44
... hope you guys can give me a heads up on the power train stuff. ...
Hello Jim,

As usual the possibilities are just about endless. My setup (Hacker B50-18S/ Hacker Master 77A opto controller/ JePe Carbon fan / Kokam 3200 3S+3S=6S/ 3xHS85 servos/ Springair 602's +2 micros) is described here, it would work just as well with the Midifan:

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/show...ge=1&x=10&y=11

There are usually very specific reasons for every single choice in my list , some described in this thread, and some elsewhere.

If I were to to it again today, I would not change one iota - except the WeMo Midi 90mm or DS-51 would work very well too. Buy the batteries last (new models come out every month) and: Keep it Light!!

hope this helps hwh
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 06:18 PM
EDF Head
Haldor's Avatar
Stavanger, Norway
Joined Feb 2000
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Hacker B50-16L = 6S LiPo setup that are capable of atleast 40A continous.
This combo draw ~900W with <40A load which is plenty for the F9F.

Details of mine - http://halair.com/panther/
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Old Oct 06, 2005, 11:50 AM
Let er Rip
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Long Island, NY
Joined Oct 2003
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Herb, Haldor,

Thanks Gents, just ordering the components. So I think the B50 16L. An Castle Creation HV85 ESC and whatever battery's I will need will get the job done.

Going to install retracts. I remember seeing the installation procedure posted here by one or both of you Gents. Going to search for it. Any particular comments that you might have in that regard would be most welcome. Checked out your gallery/homepages. Saw that Aeronaut Rafale, I hate it when I see stuff like that. Makes me poorer but happy...

Jim
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Old Oct 10, 2005, 05:21 PM
Let er Rip
Pilot44's Avatar
Long Island, NY
Joined Oct 2003
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Batteries for Panther, Midi fan 90mm

Ok,

Herb, Haldor, need some of your expertise here.

Going with the Hacker B50 16L, CC80 Phoenix ESC or CC's HV85 ESC.

Question is what batteries???? So its either of these two setups..

TP Pro-Lite 6000 3S3P X2 for a 6S2P 22.2Volt 6000mah pack. @12.9 oz. each for 25.8oz. for both. At $410.00 for 2 packs. Looks like I can get away here for under 1K for a couple of setups.

or:

This is new stuff from FMA Direct:

Skyvolt systems: SYSKOK3200 6S2P 6400mah for 22.2V at 38.3 oz. At $709.00 each per pack. Support equipment for charging and onboard discharge module gets expensive, and heavy, figure a least two packs and related stuff. over $1575.00.

What do ya think.....????

Looking at the Hacker.com web page. I see no B50 L16, there is a B50 L15.
and there is a B50LX16. Confusing for sure. Making wrong choices here can be costly to correct....

Jim
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Old Oct 10, 2005, 11:43 PM
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Los Angeles
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Breaking News.....

Gregg Sold his Panther......................................

World is going to end....

Gene
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Old Oct 10, 2005, 11:49 PM
EDF all the way!
bruff's Avatar
Gilbert, Az
Joined Jun 1999
8,040 Posts
Go with the TP packs. That is what I have in my Panther.Great flier!
Bob
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 03:08 AM
EDF Head
Haldor's Avatar
Stavanger, Norway
Joined Feb 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriptonic
Gregg Sold his Panther......................................
World is going to end....
Probably not, is probably just gonna smell more burnt kerosene...

Pilot44, I dont have much LiPo experience but of those two I'd probably choose the TP Prolites myself.
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 07:17 AM
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Elizabethtown/Ft. Knox, Kentucky, United States
Joined Jan 2001
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I fly mine with a Plett 220/30 A4-S-P4, Midi fan and 2-3S1P (6S1P) Kokam 3200. I've never used more than 2000 mah in a 4.5-5 min. flight and the cells and motor are just warm to the touch. It's bungee launched at this time but I'm thinking about installing fixed gear. It's a very light setup and flys great.

Jim Phelps

BTW, some of the setups that I wrote down while researching this jet:
Mega 22-30-3 8S 1200W
Mega 22-30-2 5S 900W
B50-15L 6S 900W
B50-16L 6S 850W
B50-13XL 9S 1800-1900W (I think, didn't write the W down)
Kontronik 600-15 6S 900W
Kontronik 500-19 5S 940W

All of these came off of e-zone and were used in the Panther.
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 08:23 AM
who dares wins
like2fly!'s Avatar
London,England
Joined Apr 2005
1,853 Posts
pilot44, hacker make the whole range
B50 S,L and XL short, long, extra long

Motor: weight: diameter: length: shaft dia: shaft length:
B50 S ca. 198 g 35,8 mm 50 mm 5,00 mm 16 mm
B50 L ca. 255 g 35,8 mm 60 mm 5,00 mm 16 mm
B50 XL ca. 340 g 35,8 mm 74 mm 5,00 mm 16 mm

Wind. kv-S kv-L kv-XL
6 --- 6150 4025 2630
7 --- 5271 3450 2254
8 --- 4613 3019 1973
9 --- 4100 2683 1753
10 -- 3640 2415 1578
11 -- 3309 2195 1435
12 -- 3033 2013 1315
13 -- 2800 1858 1214
14 -- 2600 1725 1127
15 -- 2407 1610 1052
16 -- 2256 1509 986
17 -- 2124 1421 928
18 -- 2006 1342 877
19 -- 1900 1271 831
20 -- 1788 1208 789
21 -- 1703 1150 751

you can get all data here
http://www.hacker-motor.com/deutsch/
click on : motore: B50 : Drehzahltabelle and mae for data

alex

also as regards the skyvolt system, kokam/fma uk said its more a fool proofing system. the cells are EXACTLY the same as normal 4th generation kokam, only difference is attached circuit board on each pack for the skyvolt charger/balancing system which is very expensive. the reason they charge faster ( fma uk said) is because your monitoring each cell individually etc. sounds like balancing to me.. well thats there explanation

also pilot44, you can find great data for midifan/motor combos for Hacker/plettenberg/lehner/kontronik, in the measurements section of http://www.schuebeler-jets.de/ under ds-51 which is of course the higher performance midi sized fan

for batteries the kokam 3200 6s 20C 2*286g=572g for 2* 3s 3200 packs
or
TP prolite 6s2p 4200 15C constant 2*290g=580g for 2* 3s2p2100's ( instead of the 12C constant rated 2000's the 15C constant rated 2100's)

so the kokams would be rated 64amps constant and the TPs's 63amps but 31% more capacity with prolites for same weight
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 09:04 AM
who dares wins
like2fly!'s Avatar
London,England
Joined Apr 2005
1,853 Posts
im also thinking about motor/ battery combo for my first midi fan sized model.
i want to be able to use all packs for all models also, my minifan models use 3s (well 5s in sniper but will change that i think) so i'd like to double up for midi fan and use 6s.

does anyone have experience of the mega 22/30/2 (kv=1770) on 6s?


Alex
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 09:18 AM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,733 Posts
I would go with the 6S1P pack unless you really want to fly a long time. Get two of those and keep the model light!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot44
Ok,

Herb, Haldor, need some of your expertise here.

Going with the Hacker B50 16L, CC80 Phoenix ESC or CC's HV85 ESC.

Question is what batteries???? So its either of these two setups..

TP Pro-Lite 6000 3S3P X2 for a 6S2P 22.2Volt 6000mah pack. @12.9 oz. each for 25.8oz. for both. At $410.00 for 2 packs. Looks like I can get away here for under 1K for a couple of setups.

or:

This is new stuff from FMA Direct:

Skyvolt systems: SYSKOK3200 6S2P 6400mah for 22.2V at 38.3 oz. At $709.00 each per pack. Support equipment for charging and onboard discharge module gets expensive, and heavy, figure a least two packs and related stuff. over $1575.00.

What do ya think.....????

Looking at the Hacker.com web page. I see no B50 L16, there is a B50 L15.
and there is a B50LX16. Confusing for sure. Making wrong choices here can be costly to correct....

Jim
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 05:01 PM
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Thanks all for the heads up.

So, I think it will be:

Hacker 50 16L
Tp 3S3P 6000 X2 Pro-Lite. A couple of setups.
CC HV 85 ESC. Weighs 4.2 oz. as compared to the CC Phoenix 80 at 1.5oz...Still up in the air with that...

I can use this batteries in .40 size conversion I have under way as well.

Trying to locate a set of Spring Air 602's for this jet...Anyone have some information in this regard....????

Jim
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 05:15 PM
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Mega 22/30/2 in Midifan pulls 52 amps on 5S4P TP 8000 mah lipos. Full throttle flights for 7 or 8 minutes can puff lipos, ask me how i know. Gen 1 and 2. 6S would be too much unless you really watch the full throttle use. Strap a heatsink on your controller. I don't think Prolites will be majic, there's only so much surface area you can use to dissipate heat when 4 rows of cells are stacked on the other, but maybe they'll run cooler.
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot44
Ok,

Herb ... need some of your expertise here.

... Question is what batteries... Jim
Hello Jim,

I believe I answered your questions here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=334

The only change would be the WeMoTec Midifan, which works just as well as the JePe fan (which I already had ready to go into the Panther).

The only cell competitive with the Kokam 3200HD (6S) at this point is the new PQ 3700 XP (6S). There is no data on the durability of this new cell yet though.
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Waldrep
Mega 22/30/2 in Midifan pulls 52 amps on 5S4P TP 8000 mah lipos. Full throttle flights for 7 or 8 minutes can puff lipos, ask me how i know. Gen 1 and 2. 6S would be too much unless you really watch the full throttle use. Strap a heatsink on your controller. I don't think Prolites will be majic, there's only so much surface area you can use to dissipate heat when 4 rows of cells are stacked on the other, but maybe they'll run cooler.
Ed, I can see 8 minutes at full blast settin fire to them packs....

For my purposes, I think theses packs are best suited for my needs, Ie: interchangability to some large .40 size conversions I have underway. The TP 3S3P 6000 Pro-Lite pack: 12.9 oz.
7 1/2"X1 7/8"X7/8"

I would only use 2 for the 22.2 Volts. Can always add more, need be.
Cooling spacers between packs easily installed if at all necessary, as there is bigtime room in the Aeronaut F9F fuselage, 4 of these packs will pop in nicely with spacers for cooling. Provision for cooling needs to be addressed. Looking at the gun ports for openings to admit air and keep the awesome look of this beautiful model intact without other nasty intrusion to the fuselage.

Cooling the ESC. Have a look at the CC HV85 for a decent heatsink from the factory. This is actually the 110, same exactly as 85, shows heatsink better. Key is: get air moving in there.

I try to get it right the first time. Thanks to the guys who have been there, done it with this F9F Panther and provide guidence. Making mistakes with the wrong setups as far as battery packs that cost $210.00 a pop goes, is not a good thing.

Need to get my hands on a set of 3 gear 602's, then again, we have a Gent who dwells here in the zone who makes some great lightweight retracts. Where I fly, I need rollers for sure. Cause, a "YO, just need to setup my bungee, give me a minute". This would surely get me killed.....



Jim
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Hello Jim,

I believe I answered your questions here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=334

The only change would be the WeMoTec Midifan, which works just as well as the JePe fan (which I already had ready to go into the Panther).

The only cell competitive with the Kokam 3200HD (6S) at this point is the new PQ 3700 XP (6S). There is no data on the durability of this new cell yet though.
Herb,

So, do ya think the packs I intend to use are good or not good, that is the question. What say you......

Gonna go that route initially, don't work, I will buy other packs till I get it right. Can use these in other applications as I earlier mentioned.
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Old Oct 12, 2005, 06:09 AM
who dares wins
like2fly!'s Avatar
London,England
Joined Apr 2005
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pilot,
heres charts on the polyquest XP's from an independent german tester
http://www.elektromodellflug.de/akku-test/polyquest.htm
as you can see not all were tested at 20C because of temperature, but that is a laboratory test so conditions are different up there in the air!

theres a furore going on with polyquest at the moment http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=426043
so as the ex main dealer rclipos and associated network says they are doing deals to clear stock now! that includes cbp etc

your choice of cells makes sense from a numbers point of view to me

2 kokam 3s 3200 HD 572g (20.1oz) total capacity 3200mah, 64amp constant

2 TP PL 3s2p 2100 580g (20.4oz) total capacity 4200mah, 63 amp constant

2 TP PL 3s3p 2000 765g (26.9oz) total capacity 6000mah, 60-72amp constant (TP)

considering this bird when on nimhs flys with 16-21 sub c's at 62g each (GP3300), so 1-1.3kg (~35-46oz) for 3300 capacity.

Ed, thanks alot for the info regarding the mega. this morning as thoughts of flying were going through my head whilst on the tube i came to the conclusion to get a lehner, first midi for me so hey why not first nice motor also!

Alex
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 02:22 AM
It's like an addiction!
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NY, Rochester
Joined Oct 2003
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Spiderfan 3W, 6s3p TP Maiden!

Successful maiden of the Panther! Flies like a dream, 3 down clicks was all she needed after that she flew on rails. Setup gives near unlimited vertical climb and @ WOT she's a speed deamon. Had one high speed stall coming out of an undefineable maneuver but that was my fault as I was maybe pushing too much for a maiden flight. Slow flight very stable! After 6 min flight used 1900 out of 6000mAh mixed throttle
All in all she's a killer!
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 11:39 AM
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Congrats Chris. Welcome to the Panther Flying Fraternity. They are one of the best flying jets out there.

Kirk
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Old Oct 14, 2005, 12:36 PM
It's like an addiction!
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Thanks Kirk! They sure are great flying jets!! I was less nervous on this maiden than usually due to the fact that everybody who has flown one says the're great, in addition I had applied several modifications/alterations and double/tripple checked everything pertaining to the increased power in this setup due to the Spiderfan (1050 W, I posted the inlet ductings collapsing during tests a few pages back )
Chris
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Old Oct 15, 2005, 08:00 AM
It's like an addiction!
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Here's the bungee launch sequence from the maiden:
Panther bungee launch
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Old Oct 15, 2005, 11:23 AM
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Wadmalaw Island ,SC
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very nice .

up,up, and away ....hope my 1st panther launch goes as smoothly as yours .

p.s. Ducts on mine collapsed in testing as well. got it sorted and will begin "building" in a week .

did you do any mods to the tail ?
any pics of ducts and tail secton would be appreciated.

Congrats and continued good luck ~
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Old Oct 15, 2005, 01:28 PM
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SwampFox: Don't worry about the flying part-easy! Take care to reinforce the intakes (as you well have noticed) and do a clean strong build of all parts. I don't have any pics of the ducts and their reinforcement, what I did was, from the tail end dump epoxy on the outer surface of the ducts and cover with glass-cloth and made sure the spars were incorporated in the covering. The aft portions of the ducting (the parts which need to be glued any way) were reinforced the same way from inside the fuze. Needless to say, a big sticky mess if you dont use at least 30min epoxy for times' sake, lay out everything, have tools, towels and alcohol (no not to drink.. although now that I think about it..., and do at least 1 dry run of the process - and a sticky mess even if you do Clean off epoxy w/ alcohol works fine!
Tail: in addition to what you see in the picture, I added an additional spar to the right in the picture, parallell to the one on the left, approx 1 inch from the fuze joiner.
Hope this helps, feel free to ask otherwise..

Chris
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Old Oct 15, 2005, 01:51 PM
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Thanks a bunch.

Already have the HStab/ control horns put together and epoxied in . . Just need some good linkages. plenty of pics of what I need for that in this great thread .

I see you're using a 3 -in- 1 deal for the split ele.... I have that rigged up too and seems to be an easy way to go. I will loctite the tar out of it .

for the ducts I read back a bit ,,,amazing what that'll do
I do plan on incorporating some glass for sure and really locking them into the rear former .
for the intake lip I plan on tacking them ,then glassing the joint from the inside. Sound good ? open to any other method. There is not much area to adhere the duct to the lip and that concerns me just a little . I have some west systems and plenty of cloth . guess I just need to get in there and do it

22/30/2 - Midifan- jeti 70- 5s 6750

not the 1kw+ beasts in this thread ... but that should do well enough.

take care ~
Henry
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Old Oct 15, 2005, 02:21 PM
It's like an addiction!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Swamp Fox
I will loctite the tar out of it .
You betcha!

As for the joint: that's what I did too, glass it from the inside and pour epoxy in and stand the model on it's nose - solid!
As for this: 22/30/2 - Midifan- jeti 70- 5s 6750 That'll move her allright!!!

Regards, Chris

Oh yeah, I'll put up some vid of the first flight so you can see how stable she is.
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Old Oct 15, 2005, 06:56 PM
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Long Island, NY
Joined Oct 2003
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Hey, guys,

Sure would like to see a picture or two of this intake duct reinforcement points, just where does the ducting collapse?

Thanks for your help in advance.......

Jim
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Old Oct 16, 2005, 12:12 AM
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guadalajara, jalisco, mexico
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This is my indoor EDF pager powered Panther, I love the Blue Angels paint, this plane got to fly 4 laps indoor, the model weighs 11 grams.

Alfredo Rubio
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Old Oct 16, 2005, 01:09 AM
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Wadmalaw Island ,SC
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Dang Jim,,,

Now a flood ?!?!

here's a cracked panther duct.

take care bud,
Henry
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Old Oct 16, 2005, 01:51 AM
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Had same crack also left side:
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Old Oct 16, 2005, 02:02 PM
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Ok, thanks for the look, see.

Jim
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Old Oct 18, 2005, 01:51 AM
It's like an addiction!
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Once around the block

From the maiden flight :
http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/show...cat=509&page=1
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Old Jan 28, 2006, 12:44 PM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Belgium
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Retract on the Panther

OK, I finaly got for the Panther, And I will built 2 wings :

- one wing, light, for grass landing,
- and another wing, with Flaps and Retracts.

How easy is it to built retract ? If someone has already built it with retracts, can he post pictures of the mod ? What is the ind=crease in weight ? What is the Best/lightest retract to choose ?

thanks
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Old Jan 28, 2006, 01:15 PM
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shadow hills,ca
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No need for flaps in the Panther. It slows down nicely as it was designed........
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Old Jan 28, 2006, 01:47 PM
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Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
... How easy is it to built retract ? If someone has already built it with retracts, can he post pictures of the mod ? What is the ind=crease in weight ? What is the Best/lightest retract to choose ?

thanks
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...&page=3&pp=100

"Those who can read always have an advantage"
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Old Jan 28, 2006, 01:55 PM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Belgium
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Sorry greg, I read the posts indeed AFTER I wrote the question ! :-((( sorry

Is the Spring Air 600 really the one you recomment or is there something lighter/better now ? Why use an AIR-Retract rather that a servo driven ? (is there a way to save weight by using mecanical retract or is the AIR option in fact better and lighter ?)

Is the mod really simple or quite some headheach ?
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Old Jan 28, 2006, 02:23 PM
Purple power
gregg f's Avatar
shadow hills,ca
Joined Apr 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
Sorry greg, I read the posts indeed AFTER I wrote the question ! :-((( sorry

Is the Spring Air 600 really the one you recomment or is there something lighter/better now ? Why use an AIR-Retract rather that a servo driven ? (is there a way to save weight by using mecanical retract or is the AIR option in fact better and lighter ?)

Is the mod really simple or quite some headheach ?
The conversion took around 10 hours. Most of that was planning and cutting gear plates and making up two half formers for the nose.
I fly mostly from tarmac so it was a logical choice to do the conversion. Note: I flew it for a year off the bungee which worked well. If I had a grass field close to where I live, I would not of converted it.

The Spring Airs are quite light! Total added weight for the conversion was somewhere around 300g.
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Old Jan 29, 2006, 07:33 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Belgium
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Panther, Rafale... OK for 80mm Grass tale off ??

Thanks for the answer Gregg . Right now, I bungee my Jet (Kyosho F16+Schubeler DS30), but I start to consider that a "real" take off and landing is more that just a way to get the plane in the air, that it is also part of the fun of the fly and that the chalenge of perfect landing is increasing the Flight enveloppe/pleasure.

So, even if I have built my owe bungee & ramp, I would like to add retract to my planes now (I can still leave the retract off and bungee them when the grass is not good enough ! )

But I have a question (May be for Herb who has booth planes):

Our grass runway is nice and smooth but.... only 80 metters.

As you know, I have bought a Micro Kerozene turbine from Lambert :





It weight 200 grammes, that gives a TOTAL propulsion system, including kerozene for 8minutes flight, of 750 grammes. The thrust is 3 lb max.

Of course I prefer to put it in a scale jet rather than a TwinJet (not only for look, but also to reduce the high pitch noise emited from the front by the comprerssor, so that only the nice RRRrrrooooarr emited by the back is heard)

So now I need to built 2 new planes !

1 - One for the Lambert turbine. I believe I will go for the Panther, and because of the 3lb max thrust, keept it light (no retracts). (I am also considering the EAM F15 with light retract... ?)

2 - One for my next EDF. Indeed, in Belgium there is very little clubs where you can fly turbines, so I will have most of the time to fly electric.

And here is the terrible question :

Do I built another Aeronaut Panther, with a Powerfull Schubeler DS51 (what set-up is recommended for grass field take off ??).

Or ... an Aeronaut Aramid Rafale, with retracts, for a 120mm FAN.

I have to say that I am tempted by the 120mm technology, The aramid, and... the fact that the retract is not a mod. but already in the kit design.

So here is my question:
*****************
With 80mm of (short) grass, can I take off with a Panther ?

And also can I take off With a Rafale ? (I have a feeling that the runway will be too short for the rafale! or may be the rafale will have a shorter take off than the Panther due to its much higher power/thrust ? )

Or.... I must stay with bungee
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Old Jan 29, 2006, 09:33 AM
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Generally deltas need more runway than a conventional setup because they just will not rotate until the get to a certain speed, the elevators on the back of the wing don't have much leverage. On the other hand, a canard setup CAN be a good grass field plane! You set it up with the canards on a switch - for landing and takeoffyou flip the switch and get say 10 degrees of canard which will lift the nose at a low speed and allow slower takeoffs and landings. But you really want to fly it in nuetral trim first and get the feel for the plane before doing that and 80 meters of grass is probably not enough.

Also, how short is short? If the grass is 5mm high then an 80 meter strip should be enough for either plane. If it is 12mm it'll be marginal, higher than that forget about it.
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Old Jan 29, 2006, 12:45 PM
Fight On!
mario alvarez's Avatar
San Salvador, El Salvador
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That micro turbine is too cool!! Where did you buy it? Does Lambert have a web page?
Thanks.
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Old Jan 29, 2006, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
... So here is my question:

With 80mm of (short) grass, can I take off with a Panther ?

And also can I take off With a Rafale ? ...
80mm is a bit short . For the Panther with my setup the takeoff run is about 10m (30ft) on short grass or dirt.

My Rafale takes off in about 15m (45ft) on short grass or dirt, no need for canards. The designer's (J. Rehm) Rafale takes off in about the same distance on short grass give or take a few, no canards there either. The Aeronaut Rafale (2x90mm or 120mm) does not need canards for takeoff or landing, because it's a super light composite airframe (mine with retracts is 3.6 kg rtf), look at the videos. They do look cool though.

The Rafale needs a lot more space than the Panther to fly safely, it's a bigger, faster edf. The Panther (which is also very light, mine with retracts 2.3kg rtf) is quite maneuvrable and can handle tighter flying spaces better.

What you seem to be missing though is the fact that you need a long (grass, dirt or asphalt) runway to land safely, for either plane. These planes are a bit more difficult to land than your Kyosho f-16.


.
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Old Jan 31, 2006, 09:13 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Lambert web site is : http://www.lambert-modellturbinen.de/html/news.html
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Old Jan 31, 2006, 09:18 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Thanks Herbs.

I Can read between your lines that I should start with the Panther.

And I believe that this is even more true that I can with the Panther Take-off "on the wheels" and land 'on the belly" (retrach off) is the field is too short (ot the pilot too bad).

I believe that "belly landing" with the Rafale is less appropriate ?? Isn'it ??
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Old Jan 31, 2006, 12:21 PM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Belgium
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110mm EDF in a Panther ???



I read on WeMoTec Web site the following about the Panther : " Aeronaut mentions, that bigger units up to 110 mm in diameter can be used, so you have the option of fitting the HW 730.

Is it true ?

Is there an advantage to use a HW730 instead of a 90mm DS-51 Schubeller (normaly, the bigger EDF, the better efficiency" ?

thanks
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Old Jan 31, 2006, 12:47 PM
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The panther flies EXTREMELY well on a 90mm fan. What is possible and what is advisable are two different things, you would need to make your own inlets which is no easy task. I have no idea what the actual inlet size is but I bet it is marginal for a 730, best to go with the recommended setup for which parts are available before you go off on an adaptation adventure.
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Old Jan 31, 2006, 03:55 PM
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... Not sure why Aeronaut still has that 110mm fan stuff in there.

Everybody I know of (including the designer) flies it with the 90mm fans (JePe fan, MidiFan, DS-51 etc) and those are a perfect fit from every perspective. There's really nothing to gain today in the Panther with a 110mm fan. The intakes are perfectly dimensioned for a 90mm fan.

Perhaps the original motivation was to say that if you had one of those fans already available in your shop, then you could make it work ...
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 10:30 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Belgium
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Are you going to the 2006 Florida jet Meeting

Hello Herb and other guys,

I will be attenting (as spectator this time ) the 2006 Florida Jet meeting first week of March (YEs... flying all the way from Belgium to see this show !)

Who is going there also ? may be we can meet !
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 12:28 PM
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Actually the 110 mm remark by Aeronaut comes from the original presentation some 6 or 7 (?) years ago.
By that time a typical 90 m fan was powered by approx. 500-600 W.
That is the reason to mention the choice of a bigger fan.

Now that we squeeze 1000 W+ thru 90 mm fans it is no way advisable to use a bigger fan.

The intakes of the Aeronaut Panther are way out of scale already (compare with the same size RBC one (!), not sure if they are big enough for the 730. To my knowledge nobody ever tried it. And I can see no reason to do so.

Oliver
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 02:58 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
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United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
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I will be there as will Hoser and Bill from this forum. I think Ted from Neveda and Chris True are trying to make the event. I'm sure one of us can get you a pit pass too.
Let me know how I can help.
Bob Belluomini


Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
Hello Herb and other guys,

I will be attenting (as spectator this time ) the 2006 Florida Jet meeting first week of March (YEs... flying all the way from Belgium to see this show !)

Who is going there also ? may be we can meet !
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Old Feb 06, 2006, 08:22 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Belgium
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Well, Since I come all the way from Europe, I just want to be sure to meet you there, so that next time we discuss on the Forum, I can put a face on the post. Do I need to wear a greed hat and yellow shoes so that you reconize me ?

PS : What is a pit pass ? Does it provide easier access to the planes and pilots that a regular "visitor pass" ? If this is the case, YES I am interested. (I am coming with my whife who is also learning about jets to become my crew member !)

thanks for the help
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Old Feb 06, 2006, 08:37 AM
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Pit pass would allow you inside the spectator line where the pilots sit / work on their planes etc. Without it you would be well back from the pilots.
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 05:45 PM
I know I'm stupid but...
FGuinand's Avatar
Paris
Joined Jan 2005
36 Posts
Hello everybody, I need your help again before taking an important decision...:

- I will have a special Panther from Aeronaute with the possiblity to have a wing including landing flaps , do you think it could be of some kind of help ? or just a stupid useless modification ? my landing field is rought grass and forest or trees all around it...

- Another stupid question also...did any one use a moving rudder on a Panther ? normaly it help some times...is it also a stupid modification ?

I like planes with landing gears, specially when they retract them after take off...but it's useles on grass and a lot of work if you want a clean job with closing doors..., and with all my projects of mofications, including fitting a turbine, there is enought work on the table...

Yes, we have been in Germany and after seeing the beautyfull job of Martin Lambert, (and some flying), we bought a turbine Kolibri (750 gr including Kerosene for a 8 minutes flight ) and next weekend i'm going to try and master the starting and shutting off before to lay it in my standard Panther to learn how to put "things" in it and still have the center of gravity at the right place.

Thank you for your help, and happy landings !
Francois
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 05:54 PM
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Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
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It flies fine without flaps or rudder, see videos. You can add rudder if you want to knife edge, nobody I know who's been flying the Panther has done it yet (kiss principle, see this thread).

Just out of curiousity, do you have any experience on setting up a turbine conversion? Have you flown turbines before? Have you considered the fact that this kit was NOT designed for turbine (even a small one), and does not therefore have the required mods?

These are all matters to ponder, you might want to start a new separate thread in the turbine section (here, or on RCU where most of the turbine guys hang out). Good luck on your project.
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Old Feb 14, 2006, 04:26 AM
I know I'm stupid but...
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Paris
Joined Jan 2005
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Hello Herb,
You are again very kind and the first ready to help... but you forgot to answer to one question...!

Of course I have seen videos and heard so many advice that I know that it fly great in standard configuration and that it's probably the best plane in this category on the market to day.

- But you did not answer to my question about Flaps : I was wondering if the landing flaps would be of some help for landing on some very small landing fields ?

- About the conversion, I have read in a 2005 december 's Jet magasine, a test of a Cougar from Airworld ( the last version of the full size Panther ), very similar in size and weight with the panther, also designed originally for a 90mm ducted fan, in which the writer had put a lambert turbine. (the Kolibri)

He said that the behaving in flight was similar because of he same power range.(about 3.3 pounds of trust, 1.5 Kilogramme ), and He did not have any problem of heat as the exhaust tube was in stainless steel which has a low heat transmission and of course because of the very small size of the turbine which has nothing to do with the Wrenn 44 in size or weight !

Remember that it is 750 gr including all : battery, ECU, tank, half a liter of kerosene and every thing for 8 minutes of flight....

I know I'm not going the easy road, but it's so exciting to hear the real sound when it fly. An by the way when you consider the price of two sets of batteries and the short life of the lipo battery, and all the accessories you need, you are not very much cheaper than this tiny turbine...

If I'm so excited with this turbine, it's because it's designed for the sort of plane I like, just like the Panther from Aeronaute and I simply would not have thought about buying a normal sized turbine...

When we went to Germany to buy it, we saw some demonstration from Martin Lambert, of starting, and did eveb try it ourself also. Then went to a field leaving the car near the road, and we saw the turbine powered Twinjet easy started, easy throwed by hand and demontrating a very convincing flight and sound !!!!

Easy starting, throwing by hand ....have you ever seen any other turbine which can do that ? and needing only 6 cm3 of kerosen per minute at full throttle.....?

I suppose that you can feel between the lines, how much I have been conviced by this tiny turbine...

All your advice are very welcome !

Kind regards and happy landings to every body...
Francois
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Old Feb 14, 2006, 02:51 PM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Belgium
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I can see that the tonton is very excited ! forgive him, he is still very young
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Old Feb 14, 2006, 03:31 PM
Let er Rip
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Long Island, NY
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Ton Ton....

turbine, well, if it don't melt the Panther, there ya go..

Jim
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Old Feb 14, 2006, 03:54 PM
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Swarthmore, PA 19081
Joined Dec 2004
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Hey Guys, I'm real close to finishing my panther. Set up is Midi driven by Kontronic 600-17 with 6s1p 3200 kokam cellpros 20C through Jeti 70 opti controller. On the test stand I'm getting 1200 watts At 58 amps and it is trying to pull my test stand off the ground. How does this power output sound to you guys. I would like to run it around 1000 watts even, but my attemps to throttle back using transmitter adjustments is not working.Aircraft weight is 4lb 5oz. All I need now is decals and a few more odds and ends.Battery cooling needs to be designed. Doug
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Old Feb 14, 2006, 03:58 PM
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Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
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Looks good to me ...

My experience with the Hacker master 70A controller (vs the slightly bigger master 77A) is that it does NOT handle reduced throttle well: It heats up quickly.

So to avoid thermal shutdown go from full throttle (in bursts) to less that 50% (the worst range for the fets is 70%-99%). And of course cooling always helps.

The battery should not get hot at all if you throttle back (but the connectors might melt ). The Panther already flies very nicely at 600W...
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Old Feb 14, 2006, 04:02 PM
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Wellington, Florida
Joined Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FGuinand
Hello Herb,
You are again very kind and the first ready to help... but you forgot to answer to one question...!

Of course I have seen videos and heard so many advice that I know that it fly great in standard configuration and that it's probably the best plane in this category on the market to day.

- But you did not answer to my question about Flaps : I was wondering if the landing flaps would be of some help for landing on some very small landing fields ?

- About the conversion, I have read in a 2005 december 's Jet magasine, a test of a Cougar from Airworld ( the last version of the full size Panther ), very similar in size and weight with the panther, also designed originally for a 90mm ducted fan, in which the writer had put a lambert turbine. (the Kolibri)

He said that the behaving in flight was similar because of he same power range.(about 3.3 pounds of trust, 1.5 Kilogramme ), and He did not have any problem of heat as the exhaust tube was in stainless steel which has a low heat transmission and of course because of the very small size of the turbine which has nothing to do with the Wrenn 44 in size or weight !

Remember that it is 750 gr including all : battery, ECU, tank, half a liter of kerosene and every thing for 8 minutes of flight....

I know I'm not going the easy road, but it's so exciting to hear the real sound when it fly. An by the way when you consider the price of two sets of batteries and the short life of the lipo battery, and all the accessories you need, you are not very much cheaper than this tiny turbine...

If I'm so excited with this turbine, it's because it's designed for the sort of plane I like, just like the Panther from Aeronaute and I simply would not have thought about buying a normal sized turbine...

When we went to Germany to buy it, we saw some demonstration from Martin Lambert, of starting, and did eveb try it ourself also. Then went to a field leaving the car near the road, and we saw the turbine powered Twinjet easy started, easy throwed by hand and demontrating a very convincing flight and sound !!!!

Easy starting, throwing by hand ....have you ever seen any other turbine which can do that ? and needing only 6 cm3 of kerosen per minute at full throttle.....?

I suppose that you can feel between the lines, how much I have been conviced by this tiny turbine...

All your advice are very welcome !

Kind regards and happy landings to every body...
Francois

Where are you going to fit the fuel tank and ECU? 1st see if you can fit a 1/2 liter fuel tank in the front nosecone. I have my doubts.
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Old Feb 14, 2006, 04:34 PM
I know I'm stupid but...
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Paris
Joined Jan 2005
36 Posts
It should be under the pilot's bottom and a bit behind. The air ducted canal can be cut if necessary befare the turbine, as it is not critical at all with a turbine and that is the way it was done on the Cougar from Airworld (about the same size ).that was tested on Jet magasine from december 2005 by Dave wilhswere (i dont remember his name exactly). The ECU is very very small...

HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP ....

But sadely nobody did answer to my question :
Does landing flaps help to have a more precise landing, with or without engine on, in very small areas surrounded by very unpleasant trees...???? I must have some advice very soon as Aeronaute is going to start building my custom Panther very soon...

Happy landings !
francois
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Old Feb 14, 2006, 08:40 PM
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Yes ,OK, Yes, the flaps will help to shorten your landing and reduce the size of the required runway/grass strip.But if you start loading up the weight of this relatively small model with flaps and retracts and the hardware that goes with it your landing speed will go back up and the aircraft will start to become unforgiving. I watch every gram of weight i put into the plane when i'm building and it pays off. The wing loading stays light and those nasty habits don't come into play when you try to slow down for a landing. I don't recall seeing flaps on to many EDF's. I do have them on my Turbine powered A-4 but only as a neccessity to conteract the motors residual thrust when i'm trying to land. Hope this helps...... Doug
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Old Feb 15, 2006, 03:54 AM
I know I'm stupid but...
FGuinand's Avatar
Paris
Joined Jan 2005
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Hello Doug,
I'm not planning to have retracts or any kind of landing gears !

it was just landingflaps, because of the trust of the turbine in case I would land with the engine on, but the main reason would be to have a steeper landing trajectory with the engine off, ( like as I mostly do with my other planes but no ones have flaps) without increasing the speed because as i said my landing fied is in a valley, near two forest and having trees all around, so making a long and flat approch is impossible !

So what I would like to know is if the Landing flaps would make a VERY noticeable difference as I have no experience with it.

The adding weight should be only Two small servos and the slight penalty in weight caused by the hinge of the flaps and the closing of the wing and the flap where they are cut ! less than one ounce all together I think.

As this Panther will be built in Aramid, I suppose that it still will be lighter with the flaps than the standard one without flaps , dont you think ?
Thank you Doug for your answer,
Francois
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Old Feb 15, 2006, 08:11 AM
EDF Head
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Stavanger, Norway
Joined Feb 2000
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I doubt a kevlar/aramid version will weigh much less than regular cloth.

FGuinand - we cant tell you if flaps will pay off because we dont know how your field is, how good you are flying models or how the flaps will add to the Panther.

On my EDF Panther I use spoilerons (both ailerons up) to aid in landing as this increase washout which allow me to hold the nose higher = more drag and a steeper controlled decent. This might work for you but at some point you will have to decide for yourself what to do...
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Old Feb 15, 2006, 08:53 AM
I know I'm stupid but...
FGuinand's Avatar
Paris
Joined Jan 2005
36 Posts
Hello Haldor, do you have a video of a landing using the spoileron ? maybe it is the way to go...with a F16 Kyosho and a Schubeler 50mm we did try it.. but the wrong way putting the ailerons down but it was very unpleasant to fly with a lot of down stick and very little efficiency left in roll...
Francois
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Old Feb 15, 2006, 09:09 AM
Zoom-Zoom
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Switzerland, ZH, Dietikon
Joined Jun 2004
815 Posts
No wonder it was unpleasant to fly.... Ailerons tilted down usually cause the plane to tipstall. They're supposed to be angled upwards (I use a free mixer channel on my transmitter), to slow things down and surpress tipstalls, like Haldor said!

It would be a shame if you guys smash the plane (and the expensive turbine) because of such experiments...

Oh, by the way, you do have a bit of EDF experience, don't you???

Best regards - Paco
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Old Feb 15, 2006, 09:45 AM
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Swarthmore, PA 19081
Joined Dec 2004
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In addition to above posts I beleive from the sound of it you should look for another site to fly. If your are trying to drop into a short field surrounded by trees you will lose the model!. A jet is not the aircraft you want use.I have long wide open approaches where I fly and still there are times when I overshoot or undershoot my landing area. In your case it will be goodbye investment. I would hate to see that happen. Have you looked around, maybe a short drive will be in order. Doug
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Old Feb 15, 2006, 09:59 AM
Let er Rip
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Long Island, NY
Joined Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haldor
On my EDF Panther I use spoilerons (both ailerons up) to aid in landing as this increase washout which allow me to hold the nose higher = more drag and a steeper controlled decent. This might work for you but at some point you will have to decide for yourself what to do...
Haldor, on the Spoilerons, how many degrees of up do you incorporate for them to be effective?

Jim
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Old Feb 15, 2006, 11:09 AM
EDF Head
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Stavanger, Norway
Joined Feb 2000
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FGuindand - http://halair.com/video/f9flight4.wmv (11MB)

Jim - between 10-15deg up. This is plenty to delay any tipstalling which allow you to give the plane some uptrim in the landing pattern = bleeds off speed better.
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