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Old Feb 26, 2004, 07:11 PM
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Mini-Review
Aeronaut Panther pictures

A couple of pictures my Aeronaut Panther, done with the servo installation.

http://www.aero-naut.net/151.html

http://www.aero-naut.de

http://www.wemotec.com/prototype/pro...products_id=53

http://www.wemotec.com


.
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Old Feb 26, 2004, 07:12 PM
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it's not summer yet!
or is that Dougie's?
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Old Feb 26, 2004, 07:18 PM
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Mine - I think I might be done before summer ... Excellent part fit once the cutouts are done using the supplied templates,
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Old Feb 26, 2004, 07:19 PM
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Not much surface prep necessary before spray painting
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Old Feb 26, 2004, 07:21 PM
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Sturdy elevator servo setup (two ball links) :
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Old Feb 26, 2004, 07:23 PM
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Elevator servo HS-81 MG with silver soldered linkages,
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Old Feb 26, 2004, 07:25 PM
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Aileron HS-81MG servo just barely fits in the wing!
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Old Feb 26, 2004, 07:26 PM
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JePe 90mm carbon fan / Hacker B50-18S / Hacker M77 ready for installation,
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Old Feb 26, 2004, 07:29 PM
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Need to sort out how to mount the JePe fan preserving its intake lip, need to make some ring-shaped wood mount.
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Old Feb 26, 2004, 07:39 PM
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Will use the decals supplied by Ralle for "Blue Tail Fly" scheme,
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Old Feb 26, 2004, 08:54 PM
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Herb,

Very nice. It seems everybody is catching "Panther Fever". I need to get working on my Stumax Panther myself.


Rob
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Old Feb 27, 2004, 06:38 AM
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Looks great Herb!
How many cells on the B50-18S? I ran one on 16 cells in my Midi size F-18 for several months until it split a magnet. I sent a photo to Hacker and they said it should not have happened and told me to send it to Aeromodel. At first Aeromodel said it would be warranted and they would send a new one. After over 2 months and several phone calls another guy told me that 16 cells was too much and it would not be replaced. I told him what Hacker and the first guy said and he finally sent a new one. I've been trying to decide what to do with it now.

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Old Feb 27, 2004, 09:52 AM
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Herb, nice. Is there a U.S. distributor for the Aeronaut Panther?
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Old Feb 27, 2004, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
JePe 90mm carbon fan / Hacker B50-18S / Hacker M77 ready for installation,
Herb,
What is the power output from Jepe fan with this motor/Cell combo? Is this the fan out of you Scooter? To mount the fan in my Scooter I cut two Glass Plates and butted them up againest the rear bulkhead. Then I used threaded inserts in the bulkhead.
The Photo papier glue Jepe suggests is okay in a perfect enviroment but I prefer something more servicable.
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Old Feb 27, 2004, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by k_sonn
Herb, nice. Is there a U.S. distributor for the Aeronaut Panther?

Do a search for Ductedfann he has them.
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Old Feb 27, 2004, 11:20 AM
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Herb

Very, very nice. I like that Blue Tail Fly decor it's unique.

This is the Year of the Panther.

Bob
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Old Feb 27, 2004, 11:38 AM
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Old Feb 27, 2004, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Phelps
Looks great Herb!
How many cells on the B50-18S? I ran one on 16 cells in my Midi size F-18 for several months until it split a magnet... Jim
Well in the Panther it will be 16 GP 3300 cells to start with. I already have those and they work very well. The Aeronaut Panther seems quite sleek and does not seem to need a lot of power to fly fast.

The JePe fan is less of a load than the Midi, but not by much.

I have run the Hacker B50-18S in the JePe F-16 on 18 CP-1700 cells and lately 16 GP 3300 cells for two years now with no problems. I pull about 800 Watts in this setup (I will give you more accurate numbers later), but I never used a cone so I have plenty of cooling. I also enlarged the front gap between rotor and shroud to about 2mm for cooling. I cool the motor with the fan running at low rpm for about a minute after each flight.

In the Jepe A-4 I have run another Hacker B50-18S on 18 CP-1700 and lately 20 GP 3300 cells, ca 1000 Watts with no problem yet for a year. Again I use no cone, so I have good cooling. The wingloading on the 20 GP cell A-4 is a hefty 48 oz/ft2, a bit on the high side for my taste at least for this plane (low wing, high center of mass).
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Old Feb 27, 2004, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by k_sonn
Herb, nice. Is there a U.S. distributor for the Aeronaut Panther?
I got mine from Dymond at the IMS show in Ontario in January, I paid a lot less than what's listed on the Aeronaut page ...
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Old Feb 27, 2004, 03:48 PM
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Thanks Herb for the info. Robert at EJF had told me that the 18S would be OK. I think Aeromodel was just jerking me around.

Jim
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Old Feb 27, 2004, 05:48 PM
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After about 20-30 seconds these are the measurements I got some time ago for the Hacker B50-18S in the JePe carbon fan:

16 x CP 1700 cells -> 590 Watts 40A

16 x GP 3300 cells -> 790 Watts 44A

18 x CP 1700 cells -> 760 Watts 40A

18 x GP 3300 cells -> 910 Watts 50A

20 x CP 1700 cells -> 940 Watts 44A

20 x GP 3300 cells -> 1100 Watts 56A

The measurements were made over two years so there's some variation in battery state, when the measurement was taken, etc. As usual the GP's hold the voltage much better than the CP's. 20 GP cells is probably over the limit ...

The JePe and Midifan have comparable measured efficiencies, the DS-51 does slightly better esp. the new one.
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Old Feb 27, 2004, 07:38 PM
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Old Feb 28, 2004, 07:30 AM
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Looking good Haldor

Herb, I wish I were that disciplined to keep info like that!

Jim
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Old Feb 28, 2004, 01:17 PM
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.. keeping track of those numbers can save you a few motors & controllers in the long run ...
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Old Feb 28, 2004, 01:30 PM
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Gregg btw the Tamiya Royal Blue X-3 as far as I can tell is an almost perfect match for the Aeronaut blue (which is a SaturnBlau)...
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Old Feb 28, 2004, 02:42 PM
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Gregg btw the Tamiya Royal Blue X-3 as far as I can tell is an almost perfect match for the Aeronaut blue (which is a SaturnBlau)...
vielen Dank!
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Old Feb 28, 2004, 06:02 PM
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Herb ... The Photo papier glue Jepe suggests is okay in a perfect enviroment but I prefer something more servicable.
I am not sure what glue that's supposed to be, I used GE Silicone II from the local hardware store, and once glued in the JePe fan won't come off unless you go in there with a knife and blades to pry, and pull with all your strength ...

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Old Feb 29, 2004, 10:40 AM
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I am also building a Panther, scale 1/9

Martin
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Old Feb 29, 2004, 10:41 AM
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Old Feb 29, 2004, 11:09 AM
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Martin:
which kit is that?
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Old Feb 29, 2004, 11:18 AM
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It´s a JHH kit.
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Old Feb 29, 2004, 11:32 AM
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It´s a JHH kit.
thanks
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Old Feb 29, 2004, 12:29 PM
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That's a nice Panther kit, but the intakes look about 40% of the size needed for that fan.
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Old Mar 01, 2004, 11:47 AM
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Applied rivets to the wings tonite, rather quick affair with approx 1hr spendt. The rivets were like onthe canopy burned in with a thin, hollow metal tube attached to a 25W sodering iron.
Only a very light touch was required to mark the paint.
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Old Mar 01, 2004, 06:01 PM
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Herb, i think a lot f the JHH kits use cheater holes, no?
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Old Mar 01, 2004, 08:09 PM
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Haldor -- Nice. I have been applying panel lines and rivets to my warbirds for years. It just adds that extra touch of realism. Nice job.
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Old Mar 02, 2004, 10:59 AM
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Guys, the correct term is auxilliary air inlet! On the Panther (same with the Cougar), the speed brakes are made functional and retract into the fuselage creating an aux inlet. Then, they can the be extended for landings and slow flight and the fan is still fed plenty of air. It's a pretty slick setup and is completely hidden.

Martin, what fan are you planning on using in the Panther? Looks like you're going EDF? Very cool!


Chris
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Old Mar 02, 2004, 02:29 PM
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Yes my Panther will be EDF.
It will be powered by a HW750 fan (I have not decided on motor and cells yet).
Larry manufactured a lighter fiberglass fuselage for me so I think the flight performance will be great.
I will keep you all updated on the progress.

Martin
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Old Mar 02, 2004, 03:36 PM
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Ok I guess the large cheater hole explains it ... I though edf's were past that phase .
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Old Mar 03, 2004, 08:44 PM
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Back on it :
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Old Mar 03, 2004, 08:46 PM
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Beautiful Bud!

Steve
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Old Mar 03, 2004, 09:58 PM
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nice haldor !!!!!

BTW bak to JHH, you can delete the aux inlet and use a CF scubie and 30+ cells >>>>>>> zoooom!
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Old Mar 04, 2004, 07:02 AM
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Very Nice Haldor!!

--jer
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Old Mar 04, 2004, 08:43 AM
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Wow! What a lovely finish Haldor. You're certainly showing us all the standard we need to aim for from now on

Gordon
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Old Mar 04, 2004, 08:47 AM
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Wow! What a lovely finish Haldor. You're certainly showing us all the standard we need to aim for from now on

Gordon
Thanks I'm just trying to catch up with Ralf the Detail Master
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Old Mar 04, 2004, 12:06 PM
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Love those rivets ... and maybe the'll even make the Panther go faster .
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Old Mar 04, 2004, 12:12 PM
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Hardor,

Please stop raising the bar, it makes it too hard for the rest of us to think we did a nice paint job.

We all knew we could not match Ralf, but now you go and remind us how much better we should do.

Outstanding job so far.

- Ken
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Old Mar 04, 2004, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks I'm just trying to catch up with Ralf the Detail Master
I think you did just that!
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Old Mar 04, 2004, 03:27 PM
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Gordon and all:

you should read the next two issures of the "JetPower" magazin. You will get all information to paint an real aluminuim "panther".

Haldor:

very nice, looks great and I hope it will be the second best panther of the world.
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Old Mar 04, 2004, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
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Haldor:

very nice, looks great and I hope it will be the second best panther of the world.
priceless
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Old Mar 04, 2004, 04:28 PM
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AWESOME GUYS
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Old Mar 04, 2004, 09:07 PM
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I really appreciate the cheering, I'm having a ball with the Panther. Yes there is a bit of work involved but the model is really coming alive However without the great help from Ralf Schneider supplying support / how-to's / paints and decals I would never be able to do this. It wont win the Masters but it will look good in my shop

My work for tonite - wings are complete and halfway done on the fuselage :
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Old Mar 08, 2004, 08:25 PM
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After a weekend at work I had an hour to spend on the Panther => more pics to share:
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Old Mar 08, 2004, 08:26 PM
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Full side view. Tomorrow I'll finish the right fuselage side and belly and she should b all set
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Old Mar 09, 2004, 04:56 AM
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Same out in the sun:
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Old Mar 09, 2004, 04:58 AM
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Close-up:
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Old Mar 09, 2004, 05:06 AM
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realy nice,

I´m happy.
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Old Mar 09, 2004, 07:44 AM
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Very Cool Haldor. Even the pilot looks very happy. Such a happy bunch of guys on the Ezone

Must be time to go blow up some bridges.

Gordon
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Old Mar 09, 2004, 09:40 AM
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My oh my, what a beauty!

Congratulations Haldor.

Gordon
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Old Mar 09, 2004, 10:47 AM
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Can't speak....drooling, aggghhhhrrrraaahhhh
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Old Mar 09, 2004, 12:47 PM
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Still working on my cockpit, should be done with the Panther by summer
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Old Mar 10, 2004, 07:57 AM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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Really nice, Haldor! BTW, I would have liked to see you model the monkey in your avatar for the pilot!

Now there's so many "Blue Tail Fly" Panthers around I'll have to work out a different scheme for my RBC Panther (which I'll be starting soon - whoo-hoo!).

Stu.
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Old Mar 10, 2004, 09:12 AM
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I would have liked to see you model the monkey in your avatar for the pilot!

Now that would riun the looks of things wouldnt it?


Now there's so many "Blue Tail Fly" Panthers around I'll have to work out a different scheme for my RBC Panther (which I'll be starting soon - whoo-hoo!).


The BlueTailFly scheme is popular alright, and it looks gooood! I hope some more variation will come soon as the Panther have some nice ones besides this.

Didnt get to work on it last nite, will try yo put more time on it this weekend.

Its still cold over here, no snow but ground is rock hard... no good to bellyflop onto.... But once it thaws I'll have my airforce ready to scramble.
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Old Mar 10, 2004, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by stumax
Now there's so many "Blue Tail Fly" Panthers around I'll have to work out a different scheme for my RBC Panther (which I'll be starting soon - whoo-hoo!).

Stu.

Hey Stu,

You could always do "Vise-Versa." IT's the "Blue Tail Fly" in reverse...the forward fuselage is blue and the tail is silver.

Chris
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Old Mar 10, 2004, 03:39 PM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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Yeah, I wonder what happened to the other bits? Probably too shot up to repair.

Does anyone know of any hardback books on the Panther?

Stu.
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Old Mar 11, 2004, 10:34 AM
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other colors

Stu,

here are some other color ideas. I have them in higher resolution if you want.

- Ken
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Old Mar 11, 2004, 10:35 AM
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Some others
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Old Mar 11, 2004, 11:28 AM
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Hi Ken,

I want, please.

high resolution I want. 20 or 30 MB are not a problem.

email:

Car-Painting@T-Online.de


Ralle
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Old Mar 11, 2004, 11:41 AM
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Ken:

If possible, please send me the high res files. My email is k_sonn@verizonmail.com

Thanks
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Old Mar 11, 2004, 03:35 PM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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Thanks Ken, remember you sent them ages ago I still have them, printed by our A3 colour laser at work, stuck on my office wall . I kinda like the charcoal/yellow tail one. But the blue ones look cool, and then......

Too many cool schemes, not enough Panthers!

Stu.
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Old Mar 24, 2004, 11:55 AM
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Finished on monday with most of the paint job ...
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Old Mar 24, 2004, 11:58 AM
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Ralle's excellent decals really bring the Panther to life ....

http://www.modell-lackierung.de/15901/home.html
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Old Mar 24, 2004, 11:59 AM
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Irvine, Calif USA
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I use a display LG to lift the model up a bit
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Old Mar 24, 2004, 12:02 PM
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Finish is one $3 Model Master spray can of aluminum plate buffing metalizer, applied directly to the cleaned gelcoat surface, buffed and sealed with Future water based acrylic.
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Old Mar 24, 2004, 12:18 PM
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Good job Herb - looks great! Ralf's decals are a work of art
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Old Mar 24, 2004, 03:29 PM
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Herb, did you have any problem with the decals sticking to the buffed paint? When I painted my Wattage Mig, the stick on decals didn't want to stick to the paint, some of them started falling off or just weren't stuck down really well. Maybe yours are water slide type. I didn't have mine sealed with a clear coat, and I've no idea on long term durability, the little plane died on it's first fligh after the paint job.
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Old Mar 24, 2004, 05:23 PM
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Indeed
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Old Mar 24, 2004, 06:32 PM
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Yes indeed ...

Ralle's decals are water-slide, but they won't stick unless the surface is smooth and semi-shiny. Same type as the ones hes sent me for the Rafale.

http://www.modell-lackierung.de/15901/home.html

The procedure I followed is:

0) Clean the gelcoat surfaces thoroughly with isopropyl alcohol.

1) Apply the $3 spray can MM aluminum plate metalizer (2 coats)

2) buff to simulate aluminum panels

3) dust and clean to get rid of any residual aluminum powder

4) Apply two coats of sealer = Future acrylic, from home depot

5) Apply decals to what is now a nice smooth shiny surface

6) One more coat of Future to seal decals (not done yet)

I've learned about Future from reading FSM at Barnes & Nobles while my wife shops for clothes ... Kevin mentioned FSM some time ago as a good sunday reading for better scale finishes ...

The added weight due to the paint job is probably too small to measure on a digital scale - plastic model paints are extremely thin and light. The whole paint job for the Panther cost me about $6 in paints.

The original aluminum finish Panther had a lot of tiny rivets that would take a lot of work to duplicate ... I just used an artist silver pen.
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 12:37 PM
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Picture after the maiden:
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 12:46 PM
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After the flight a guy comes over and says: "you got no blow-in doors!". I say, well there's only so much detailing I can do in an evening...

"Well the Panther needed those on takeoff to get some extra air before it reached 100+ knots or so ..."

"You got no rudder either, but we just used those as a foot rest ..."

Anyhow "Skip" had been a Marine test pilot for twenty odd years, initially flying the Panther of a straight-deck carrier in Korea and later flying the F-100 series in Vietnam. Among the 100+ fighter he had test-flown he mentioned a Hunter in the fog over the UK, and captured Egyptian MiG-21's ....
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 12:49 PM
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Pilot still alive & well ... The trim was close with 1.5 mm of down trim as per the instructions (the elevator incidence is wrong), it's the first plane that needed no aileron trim at all, not even one click. It's about as fast as my JePe A-4, I'd say about 110 mph top.
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 02:01 PM
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Herb, Looks great. Is the Future Acrylic the stuff that you finish a floor with?

Jim
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 02:01 PM
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summer came early

congrats
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 02:07 PM
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Sweet.

Herb and Gregg, are you guys going to LA jets this weekend or Best in the West in Chino the second weekend in April?
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Phelps
Herb, Looks great. Is the Future Acrylic the stuff that you finish a floor with?

Jim
Yes ! ... it's a water-based SC Johnson product for vinyl floors. My wife apparently knew about it long before I did ...

It's the first time I tried this Future stuff, all the MM buffing metalizers need a clearcoat to preserve the surface. The Future is very thin and therefore self-leveling.

Ralle used some fantastic automotive paints which are great but are also a completely differerent ball game (priming, weight, toxicity etc).

http://www.eusebio.ch/Future.htm

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop/kc97lmk_1.htm
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 02:20 PM
EDF Jet Jam May 2014
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United States, KY, Crestview Hills
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The Panther looks great Herb. Very realistic. I look forward to seeing it fly.
I'll be out April 17th.
Bob
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 02:37 PM
Purple power
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shadow hills,ca
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Quote:
Originally posted by agustapower
The Panther looks great Herb. Very realistic. I look forward to seeing it fly.
I'll be out April 17th.
Bob
Sounds great Bob.
Perhaps a gaggle of Aeronauts
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 03:00 PM
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Maiden but no....

Summer came early eh? I guess though by Norwegian standards it never left

Congrats on the maiden Herb, what point of CG did you end up with? I had some down trim aswell on the maiden but after moving hte CG ahead a little the trim was less and pitch moment still good so the 67mm IMO is as far back as I'd go. If using lower power/lower AUW the trim issue might not be any consern.

So where is the video?

Bummer LA Jets or CA for that matter is so far away
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Old Mar 26, 2004, 06:15 PM
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WOW! That looks really good Herb. You did a great job and for only $6!.......ted
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Old Mar 27, 2004, 01:01 PM
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Re: Maiden but no....

Quote:
Originally posted by Haldor
... Congrats on the maiden Herb, what point of CG did you end up with? I had some down trim aswell on the maiden ...
Thanks guys. I put the CG at 66mm or so (what Aeronaut recommends), perhaps 1 or 2mm ahead of that - I'm not that good with setting the CG to within two mm's ...

Mine was initially quite sensitive on the elevator, so I reduced the rate a bit further after the first flight. Without the wing sweepback it takes very little elevator movement to get the Panther to pitch up/down. My big 16-cell GP 3300 packs is also seated quite close to the CG, so the moment of intertia about the pitch axis is small.

I use dual rates on the elevator, because with the recommended full throws on the elevator it seems to slow down nicely on landing. Not enough elevator, and you have really looong landing approaches ...
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Old Mar 28, 2004, 12:16 PM
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Had two more nice flights yesterday in a pleasant spring breeze ... With reduced rates & some more expo she went quite a bit faster & less touchy on the elevator, verticals, loops & rolls for a good 5 minute flight ... I'm really happy with the way the Panther handles ...
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Old Mar 28, 2004, 01:59 PM
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United States, FL, Miami
Joined May 2001
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herb you think the intakes are big enough for ROG with retracts?

and is the wing thick enough for them.... sorry to ask if you went over this in the thread.
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Old Mar 28, 2004, 02:04 PM
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shadow hills,ca
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Quote:
Originally posted by hoser


and is the wing thick enough for them.... sorry to ask if you went over this in the thread.
retracts on this model would be located in the fuse. as the full size is. i wouldn't recommend it though.
i thought about it briefly
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Old Mar 28, 2004, 02:33 PM
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Stavanger, Norway
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Room for retracts is tight, at best. However I've seen one post somewhere of one doing that - no pics or added info IIRC.

Retracts would be cool though and like Gregg I also considered before the kir arrived, thought didnt live long after actually recieving it But its not impossible.
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Old Mar 29, 2004, 09:45 AM
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Herb

Many congratulations on the maiden. The model looks superb. Join the F9 club.

Bob
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Old Mar 29, 2004, 10:43 AM
EDF all the way!
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Gilbert, Az
Joined Jun 1999
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Herb fantastic job! Unclejoe did retracts, added to much weight. I got another kit and planning on adding fixed gear. These are great flying kits. Greg do you still have the scale nose gear from the first kit?
Bob
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Old Mar 29, 2004, 11:17 AM
2014 EDF JET JAM We be Jamming
Kevin Cox's Avatar
St. Louis Intl, Missouri, United States
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Very nice Herb!
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Old Mar 29, 2004, 11:57 AM
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Originally I considered seriously adding SpringAir retracts.

There's a very solid anchoring point at the wing joint, so the installation would be quite solid & reliable. Also the original rear LG was short and stubby, so not much space is needed. Of course up front there's plenty of space for the front LG.

While the LG installation in the twin Rafale is kind of hopeless, it's quite feasible I think in the Panther.

Unfortunately after some research I found only one person in the world that has flown the Panther with retracts, and he told me it turned a sleek good flying edf model into a dog (sic). As a result I did not consider the conversion any further, and must admit I like it very much the way it flies right now ...
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Old Mar 29, 2004, 11:59 AM
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Here's btw a picture of a nice scheme that does not require a major complete paintjob for the Aeronaut Panther (which come pre-painted in blue) - but still livens it up quite a bit:
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Old Mar 29, 2004, 02:17 PM
Purple power
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shadow hills,ca
Joined Apr 2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by bruff
Herb fantastic job! Unclejoe did retracts, added to much weight. I got another kit and planning on adding fixed gear. These are great flying kits. Greg do you still have the scale nose gear from the first kit?
Bob
Bob: i still have it............
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