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Old Dec 11, 2001, 11:01 PM
Retired USAF, A&P mechanic
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United States, WA, Puyallup
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Common combat flying wing airfoils?

does anyone know the common/best flying wing airfoils used on the combat wings out there? for e flight and slope?

i know of zagi 999, which i think the Z400 has.

what about the fma razor, boomerang, rocketwing, wing warrior series?

also, would profili fit my bill for just making templates?
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Old Dec 12, 2001, 11:23 AM
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Hi Ronbo,
I have a "Radar" and it uses a NACA 0018 airfoil.
Yours,
Dick Huang
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Old Dec 12, 2001, 01:31 PM
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how does it fly/handle compared to zagi, boomerangs etc? what are the characteristics of that foil?

in profili, its lookes like a fat symetrical airfoil...
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Old Dec 13, 2001, 04:32 PM
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Rondo,
You're right it is a fat symetrical airfoil. I do not have any of the models you mentioned. Due to weather,etc I have not flown my Radar. A review of the Radar can be found in the November issue of S & E Modeler.
Dick Huang
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Old Dec 13, 2001, 04:37 PM
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A symmetrical NACA? Uggh! Try looking on Martin Hepperle's site for some good fying wing airfoils. His are among some of the best performing.
http://members.tripod.de/MartinHepperle/Airfoils/
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Old Dec 13, 2001, 06:22 PM
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troy,
ive looked at the MH foils, as a few of the wings supposedly use the MH45, but i cant confirm it exactly.

i printed out the mh43 and 45 as templates. but, the 60 series looks good too, i just dont know how they would perform..

reason im asking what the airfoils are, so i get feedback on the different wings/airfoils and how they perform....
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Old Dec 13, 2001, 06:33 PM
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I know a lot ofthe guys are using the "40" series with good results. I have used the 60 series (6062) for slope racers but not for flying wings. I'd look for an airfoil with about 8-9% thickness and reasonable camber (not undercamber).
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Old Dec 13, 2001, 06:36 PM
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"Performance" is usually only of value for speed or duration type airplanes. An aerobat like a Zagi flies in a "disturbed" manner more than a trimmed manner where any airfoil qualities could be finessed. No long periods of trimmed flight. Lots of manuvering. Drag is high simply because of that.
The MH airfoils are superior to the NACA series, being developed specifically for model flying.. but mainly aimed at duration and speed, not aerobatics..
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Old Dec 13, 2001, 07:34 PM
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Try the SD7003. it's a versatile low drag foil with nice characteristics that swings both ways (tailless and tailed aircraft), because of it's low moment. In production it's used in the Vipers, Pythons, Sidewinders, and quite a few other tailed slopers.

It's also used by the Red Herring and Chinook tailless deltas which are very nimble with good characteristics. All the reflex that's needed is the TE deflected 1/8" and it's good to go.

I recently used it for two planes at once. I cut a 58" span sd7003 8%T 1.6%C with 5 degrees washout and 20 degrees sweep. I use the *same* wing assembly for both planes. Tailless (with flaps!) for a Cutlass knockoff by reflexing the elevons about 1/4".

Then when I'm tired of that I remove the fuse (rubber bands) and the twin vert stabs (sliding dowels), and place it in the other fuse it fits and it's a close knockoff of an A6 intruder. Now the elevons become ailerons ( I also have to move the servo wires to a new place on the rx), the flaps stay flaps, I trim it without reflex, and it hauls ass as a tailed plane with fully variable camber on the inner 30% of span. The SD7003 is very forgiving, my next version will be a large delta wing.

Anyway, give it a look if you're inclined.
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Old Dec 14, 2001, 07:22 PM
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Paul,
so, MH foils may not be good for the manouvering of combat, be it slope or power but good for speed?

on nesail.com, he lists the foil for the regular boomerang as the EH 210 or 20/10 i think it is.... but it 'looks' simliar to the zagis airfoil..

the boomer is supposed to be faster and better in manouverability than the zagis, in both e flight and slope, so, im wondering....

i know the e boomer is reported as having a different airfoil, as its for a different application....

its all soo confusing without witnessing all the planes performance at once....

right now, im trying to thin my zagi's airfoil a bit to get some speed up, but we ll see.... after that, its boomerang time..
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Old Dec 14, 2001, 07:45 PM
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I've used the EH2010 for scratch built deltas, and it's a bit slower than I would like but has great characteristics and well behaved stalls. I built a 48" delta and a 72" delta both with this foil. Both have a the same aspect ratio, scale factors were 5 tip 12 root 17 half span. It's a great performer but does not fly inverted as well as the lower cambered SD7003.

Another tailess plane I owned used the EH1590 which is probably a better choice for speed, it was noticably faster but more sensitive to stalling, which may have been due to a sharper leading edge than the 2010.

I've also flown a buddie's 48" delta he built using the MH45. For speed it seemed to me to be at least as fast as the 1590 and had a better speed range as well, you could trim it back to increase the AOA and it would slow down quite well. I'm considering this foil against the SD7003 for my next tailess.
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Old Dec 14, 2001, 07:50 PM
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Ron, in essence a good manuvering plane has no real need to be efficient for the very short periods of time it's not manuvering. The differences between a good efficient airfoil and a plain old zip-zip won't be much anyway. Low Reynolds number airplane need be little more than streamlined flat plates. Pilot skill makes the difference.
What a manuvering plane needs is a wide margin between trimmed flight speed and stall speed.
This is accomplished on Zagi sized planes with a rounded leading edge. What's behind the leading edge is of no particular interest. If you can pull more g than the other guy before you stall, you can outturn him. Either to escape or knock him down.
Finessing the shape is important when long periods of low-drag flight are required.. racing or thermal duration. Otherwise the most awful beat up stuff held together with gobs of tape can work well.
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Old Dec 14, 2001, 09:56 PM
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true, in our flying combat style, he who can pull tighter/manouver yet recover easier is the better plane, but all ive read is that the boomerangs and thelike are all faster than the zagis, so it must be airfoil related. and they recover better. but that can be done with wing loading too.

so, there must be something in the airfoil if its not only faster, but can still manouver well.

but i think manouverability is relative, since hitting another moving plane is more luck/chance than skill. IMOHO. im sure the combat vets on the slopes would say otherwise, but the combats ive done, it more or less luck than skill.

so, i ask, is the consensus the MH40 series, EH2010, and zagi profiles the only ones used? seen mention of a Joe wurtz airfoil used. but no number or way to see the profile.
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Old Dec 14, 2001, 10:26 PM
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Dump the Zagi, buy a Boomer. I can fly my Boomer at times when Zagis make a throw out and land. I can also, even at a lower weight (less than a pound) fly faster and get them off my tail (or lack there of ) I love my boomer and will not have another Zagi. Am I biased? YES! Or maybe it is the pilot? Although every Zagi pilot who flys my Boomer wants to order one. Hmm?

James
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Old Dec 14, 2001, 10:32 PM
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Forgot to add that a buddy has a Zagi THL that he added spars to and a 400X motor pod. It is faster, albeit not much, than stock 400X's. There is also a converted Boomer electric that is faster too.
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