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Old Dec 11, 2001, 10:36 PM
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Far4nugn's Avatar
Raleigh, NC
Joined Nov 2000
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Art Hobby Elster 1.5 HLG

Posted this under the JK thermic thread, but I figured it may get attention of the interested better here:


I'm using 3 HS-55's, an Expert 6Ch DC FM Rx, and 4X150NiCd pack. I doubt you'll be able to use the 300NiMh's. Its real tight in there. I ended up having to add over an once of weight to the nose. I believe this is because I opted to cover the tail surfaces with film (Ultracoat lite). Just spray them with varnish or poly.

If you plan to discus launch her, read on. If not, read on...

After a few launches I broke one of the V-tails during a medium-strength discus launch. I rebuilt the tail using medium 1/8" balsa and did not use the original clip-on/screw-on mount (for weight savings). I reinforced the new tail with carbon fiber tape from Bob Violet Models (BVM) that is .007" thich and about 1/3" wide. CA'd this to the TE of the stabs and glued the tail onto the boom with the new ribberized black CA. BTW, I also reduced the V angle from 110 to 100 for better stabilization after discus release (though it was fine at 110). Lost about half of the added nose weight too for an AUW of 12Oz.

Out today at lunch time, flew great! Hard launches no problem.

I have yet to fly this plane in decent conditions. I've only flown in windy or drizzling weather, so I dont really know what she'll do when the sun is out, but it looks very promising. Spoilerons need a bit of down elevator to compensate, but I just bring her in low on final(1-2'), deploy full spoilers about 20' away and she climbs/stalls into my hand for landing. Handling is very crisp. She goes where you point her. Roll authority is very good, except when usings a lot of flaperon. She responds well to maybe 1/16"-3/32" of flaperon, above that I think you're wasting your time. I do have the CG set back about 5/8" from recommended. Stalls are fine even at the rearward CG. Beware there is a misprint in the instructions. On one page it says the CG is 138mm from LE. It is actually 61mm as shown elsewhere in the manual. 138mm is where the wing bolt goes.

I plan on installing a high start hook soon. I think I'll get 5 minute flights off my 'Upstart' mini- launcher in dead air.

PS, the pic is w/ the new tail.

Cheers!
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Old Dec 12, 2001, 11:47 AM
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Woburn, MA, USA
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Alright! Neat looking bird!
Now post a close-up of the pod with the canopy off!
Thanks for the tips. I'm hoping the plane truck will be by today.

My NiMh cells are 1/3 AA size, I'm thinking of having the last one on it's side, to fit inside the nose.
Just have to wait and see. All the Nicads I have for pack building may be too big. They are all longer AA types (about 28mm, maybe 60% AAs)?

I also want to use SAL, so I'll look into adding some CF tape to the stock V-tail.

I've been thinking about the UpStart too. If my little slope doesn't have enough updraft, I'll need some way to get up to the Thermal zone.

I'm in no hurry right now that there is snow/mud on the ground.
--
Hope you get some good weather in NC soon. I'll be watching for your flight report
PS: Did you add a peg to the wing tip?
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Old Dec 12, 2001, 04:52 PM
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Lindenwold, NJ, USA
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Re: Art Hobby Elster 1.5 HLG

Quote:
Originally posted by Far4nugn

(though it was fine at 110). Lost about half of the added nose weight too for an AUW of 12Oz.

I plan on installing a high start hook soon. I think I'll get 5 minute flights off my 'Upstart' mini- launcher in dead air.

Cheers!
Sorry to hear that the advertised 9 ounce flying weight isn't even close. You can't get much lighter than your flight pack.
How's the range on the Expert 650? Heard that it's a JR610 in sheeps clothing.
I don't think that you will get much more than 150' altitude off an upstart. You won't get any where near 5 minutes without some lift.

John
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Old Dec 12, 2001, 04:58 PM
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Raleigh, NC
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If you cant slope this ship on a little slope, you just cant slope anything there. Id say it only sinks about 1' after traveling maybe 40'. I was catching slope lift in a field with a 5-7 incline in a 10mph breeze... I'm anxious to try it out a local manmade lake. It has a 40' tall hill at one end with a 45 slope and the wind frequently goes right over the lake and up the hill. I'll add some ballast (maybe 3-5 Oz) when I get a chance to fly there.

SAL (side arm launch) is not the same as a discus launch. This is a slight error on Art Hobby's web site. Yes, what you see in the video is the Colibri being SAL'd. You cant launch a 60" glider this way - you'd hit the wingtip on the ground (unless you're over 7' tall).

A SAL is a low, sweeping toss with a steep release. A discus launch is much different and includes a full 360 rotation and a couple steps before a shallower release.

I havent added a peg yet. I've been thinking about how to accomplish this though. I wouldnt risk the integrity of the sheeting by just drilling a hole and gluing a carbon peg through it. I think you'll need considerable reinforcement, and in the correct direction. I've been thinking about glassing the tips and installing the peg through the glass, but I'm not sure that would be enough either.

Ideas? Did you get your kit?
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Old Dec 12, 2001, 05:11 PM
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Raleigh, NC
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John,
The Elster is advertised at 9.82 Oz. I covered the original tail (not in the instructions) and the v-tail splitter (for elev only control) was somewhat heavy. I'm not at all sorry about the weight. I think it helps the launch height. Maybe I'm wrong.

I'm estimating 5 minute flights from the Up-start by comparing the performance of my old HLG (scratchbuilt foamie with tape reinforcements) to the Elster. I'll report actual times after they take place.

I think you're right about the Expert Rx. Looks the same and has the JR ABC&W technology (whatever that is). I'm not sure about the range yet. I had another of these that brought down my 7lb brushless Cub on its 2nd flight, so I'm hesitant to fly it, but since then I've gone back to the Tx's original frequency (had installed different xtals with the Cub). Havent had any problems yet, but I havent had the Elster more than 300' away.
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Old Dec 12, 2001, 06:32 PM
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Woburn, MA, USA
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Wow!

Dang it, the truck passed me by again! No HLG until Christmas??

Thanks for the picture.. Man, that is a small pod! I can see where there might be a problem getting two servos in there for the V-tail..
Is the V-tail splitter hardware explained in the instructions? If not, please tell me about it.


Peg:
I saw a HLG site photo somewhere that showed a neat air-foil shaped (tear drop) aluminum peg that was mounted through the wing tip and was surrounded by a disk of FG or CF (about 30 or 40 mm in diameter). It looked very solid. I can't relocate the site, but I think the wing may have been wood over foam..

Here is a photo from Art Hobby of the custom pack they sell for the Elster.
The nose-end cell is turned on it's side to fit inside the nose. Looking at your photo, it seems like you might be able to move a 'custom' pack forward 8 to 10 mm from you current pack position.
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Old Dec 12, 2001, 06:44 PM
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He don't need no stinking pegs!

Here is part of an Email I got from Andre. If I did this, I would use some sand or grit from some sandpaper. (To avoid loosing my fingerprints).
Rich<>
------

On my gliders I did little an improvement on how the wing tip is finished, and to have an excellent grip:

I took a piece of clear glass and (with every safety precaution) hammered it to a powder.

Then right after applying the third coat of lacquer to the wing surface I sprinkled the glass powder over the wing tip, and repeated the same operation on the lower surface of the same wing tip.

After a few minutes I sprayed final finishing coat of lacquer over the wing.
This kind of finish is invisible and allows me to have a very secure grip

I highly recommend first practicing this finish on a piece smooth surface hardwood.

Then if you are satisfied with your results, duplicate the same operations applying this finish to the wing tip.
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Old Dec 12, 2001, 08:20 PM
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Those cells are the same size as mine. I had the same idea, but I needed room for the nose weight, and the farther forward, the better. I filled the little section of the nose with bb's set in candlewax., and also have 2 X 1/4 Oz lead slabs, one on each side of the battery (visible in photo).

Yeah, Andre sent me that too, but I was a little scared of it (I may use sand however). Also I think a peg will be more effective as you'll be able to give a forward shove with your fingertips at release to arrest some of the rotation. My Elster rotates about 20 to the right (in pure yaw) immediately after launch, but quickly straightens out and the trajectory is straight. I'm sure with more practice, it'll rotate less.

Materials for the control joiner are supplied. Make sure you find the extra length on wire in the kit, it is for the joiner. I made a different joiner in versionb of my tail. I used one size smaller wire (.025"?) for the pushrod and 'joiner' pieces. Also I changed the way it is assembled to reduce the weight.

I started with about a 5" length of wire. Bent it in a sharp bend (almost doubled over), with a sharp crease at the bend. I did this by making the bend w/ needlenose pliers, then squeezing the round till it was almost flat. I then bend the 2 z bends in the ends, but I didnt use z's I actually used 'L' bends and spread the joiner out a bit so it would be retained between the control horns with a little outward pressure.

Then I gave the pushrod a sharp bend about 1/2" from one end and 'interlocked' the bend in the pushrod with the sharp bend in the (front of ) the joiner. Slipped a small piece of heat shrink tubing over this intersection and glued with thick CA before shrinking the tubing. Very light an effective.

Make sure you measure very carefully before making the control horn 'L' bends, as any error will produce 'rudder' effect.

Here's a pic: Keep in mind this is the new tail, not the one in the kit. Also, it is mounted directly to the boom rather than on the supplied removable mounts.
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Old Dec 14, 2001, 06:23 PM
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Broke it already!

Hello Far4,
It came today! The wings looks great. The tail seems too light to survive a sneeze..
The boom was a tad fat, so now I have a split pod..
Did you sand your boom down any? Or did it slide right in?

Anyhow, I don't even have any scrap balsa to build the Fuse Jig..
Maybe I'll be flying by Next weekend

When I go do some flight checks on my new radio tomorrow (I'm going to fly it up high in the Razor), I'll drop by the LHS and see if they have any 2-56 rod, Mini-clevises and Hinge Tape.
Then I'll go to the other more distant LHS and get the rest of the stuff..

I wonder if it's wise to use a metric Nylon wing bolt? The local hardware only has standard English Nylon hardware.. Maybe I should have ordered some 3mm with the kit..

Cheers,
Rich<>
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Old Dec 14, 2001, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rlt55
My NiMh cells are 1/3 AA size, I'm thinking of having the last one on it's side, to fit inside the nose.
Just have to wait and see. All the Nicads I have for pack building may be too big. They are all longer AA types (about 28mm, maybe 60% AAs)?
I suggest using the new AAAA 200mAh Nimh cells from www.BatteriesAmerica.com. A 4-cell square pack will measure only 0.55 x 0.55 x 1.6, 21g. Compared to your inline 1/3AA pack, this pack will let you move the RX and servos more than 1/2" farther forward. I'm getting 80 minutes of safe flying (15-20% juice left over) on my 4ch DLG.

- Mark
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Old Dec 14, 2001, 08:42 PM
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Woburn, MA, USA
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Move the Servo up too!

Wow, those are small. Did you order the pre-built $14 pack or
did you roll your own? And what rate do you charge them at?

I've done a lot of soldering, but not too many batteries.
Maybe it's time to learn how to make my own packs.

Think I'll be calling in my order in the morning.

Thanks,
Rich<>
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 12:18 AM
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Cambridge, MA USA
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Re: Move the Servo up too!

Quote:
Originally posted by rlt55
Wow, those are small. Did you order the pre-built $14 pack or
did you roll your own? And what rate do you charge them at?
I built my own pack, but BatteriesAmerica builds very good packs if you don't want to bother.

I charge them at 1C using my Sirius 200. This charger is just about perfect for the new NiMH HLG packs. www.tgworks.com carries it.

- Mark
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 11:56 PM
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Rich, Sorry to hear about breaking the fuse I'm sure its an easy fix. I just sanded mine a bit to break the glaze and slipped it in with some thick CA. If you fear the strength of the boom is too weak, just try to break it! Its very tough!

2-56 rod? for what? I think it'll be too heavy for this application. Keep in mind you must build as light as possible, especially from the CG back. The wire I'm using is thinner than the stuff supplied in the kit, and THAT was smaller than 2-56. I think clevises are too heavy for the tail also. Just make some simple bends in the pushrod wire. If you mess it up, try again! A 3' length only costs $.50 or so!

I didnt bother with the jigs in the instructions. I didnt see how they'd be helpful, so I skipped it.

Mark, thanks for bringing up these cells, I think they'll be perfect for this plane! Are these AAAA's the same size as the cells that come out of SOME 9V nmh rechargables when you remove the plastic/metal case?

I had a wonderful flying session with the Elster today!
The wind was about 15-20mph and from the North, so I headed to a nearby lake with a 30-35' tall dam (hill) at the South end. I ballasted the plane with 3 Oz of lead at the CG and added a tell-tale to my Tx antenna. It was great just soaring back and forth across the slope and putting her in a stationary hover! At times I could get her up about 100' and do some nice speed runs. It carves turns nicely and retains energy well. When the wind was higher, I would just shoot from one side of the dam to the other, whip off a turn and shoot back. I was surprised at how well the 15 Oz plane took the gusts - no problem. I had complete control at all times, and even with moderate gusting, it flew very smoothly. Lots of people walking across the dam stopped and watched and asked questions. Next time I think I'll ballast with 6 Oz and get even more speed out of it.

Keep it up Rich, you'll be done before you know it.

Cheers!
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Old Dec 16, 2001, 10:06 AM
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Sounds like someone is having fun!

The Fuse went on fine, after a little sanding.
After picking up the 2-56 (per the parts list), I put them back when I found some ligher hardware. Thinner wire and mini-nylon clevises. Since this is my first model in many years, I followed the manual and built the jig. It might help a novice
Could not find any Hinge Tape! and I forgot to order the AAAA cells yesterday!
(Update:12/17/01 ordered 12 with tabs)

Step 2. Glue the tail. Messed that up. It's about 120 deg instead of 110. I'm thinking about breaking it down and doing it again.
What do you guys think, 120 too much?

It's cold outside, but I'm thinking about flying my Razor today (to check out the HLG rec).

Update: Just got back. The GWS R-6N/H worked very well. Got into some serious lift on the last flight, a FS Cessna came over at about 1,200 feet. He passed about 1,000 feet under the Razor.
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Old Dec 16, 2001, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Far4nugn
Mark, thanks for bringing up these cells, I think they'll be perfect for this plane! Are these AAAA's the same size as the cells that come out of SOME 9V nmh rechargables when you remove the plastic/metal case?
The AAAA NiMA and NiCd cells have the same 1.6" length, but diameter and weight are different:

200 mAh AAAA NiMH: 0.275" dia, 5g
120 mAh AAAA NiCd: 0.300" dia, 6g

BTW, my NiMH pack tests at 195 mAh. The best I've ever gotten from the NiCds is 100 mAh. These ratings are at a 125mA discharge.

You will freak at how tiny the NiMH pack is -- about the same size as the last two segments of your pinky. It has no problem with current requirements for a 4ch HLG.

- Mark
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