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Old Dec 10, 2001, 09:46 PM
Flying slowly along..
Northern Ca.
Joined Dec 2000
1,336 Posts
Zagi/wing pilots, I need your input please

It looks like I will be working with a manufacturer of quality slope wings To develop an e power setup for his planes.

My question is, what do you as the consumer want to see as far as an out of the box power system is concerned?

Are you more performance minded, such as a Magnetic Mayhem/CP1300SCR setup? Or do you think a lower power option such as a speed 400 or 480 is more appropriate? The Turbo 450 seems to be out of the question at this point.

It seems that most of you are always questing after more power and having to spend your money twice by having to upgrade your equipment shortly after purchase. Would you rather pay a little more to start out with and get perhaps a higher capacity esc and a better battery pack to begin with?

Also what other improvements would you like to see from a wing?

This is your chance to help design a product that you might end up using. Please give me your SINCERE input on this one. Thanks guys---Rob

I am not benifitting financially from this in any way. NO $$$ involved, Just having fun.
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Old Dec 10, 2001, 10:04 PM
Registered User
tyler, texas, united states
Joined Mar 2001
639 Posts
PLEASE put an endo plasma with a 2.. or 3.. gear reduction and 10 CP's ( i need a good excuse to tell dad why i'm getting a new plane get a new plane )



OR the MM setup would be quite nice, I need something that will kill Dajudge's 450 turbo zagi
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Old Dec 10, 2001, 10:08 PM
Retired USAF, A&P mechanic
Ronbo's Avatar
United States, WA, Puyallup
Joined Jul 2001
427 Posts
slowflyer,

my 2cents worth, only owned the 1 zagi, but im hooked! so , take this fwiw.

id say, if possible, the lightest, fastest, manouverable plane yet stable ( for a wing) to compete with its box stock competitor versions. the fma razor, e boomerang, probably soon wing warrior, rocketwing, etc.

perhaps for those performance minded, the magmayhem (which is easier to get, and from your posts) as a power plant in perhaps an upgradeable version?

perhaps a mounting system that could fit both s400 and mag mayhem setups?

2 versions of the same plane , 1 with s400 to compete with it rivals and 1 with mag mayhem style setup OR the above mentioned mounting system to be able to switch between the 2.

myself, im into the s400 performance. but eventually ill get another one for the magmayhem style setup so i can compete against the 2 brushless setups my friends have...

both are popular IMOHO...
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Old Dec 10, 2001, 10:29 PM
Crashez-vous sans stress!
Dan H.'s Avatar
Chicago
Joined Nov 2001
374 Posts
For power systems, a wing that can be flown mild or wild would be the ideal. How about a removeable spar system?

It seems the advantage the Viper Twin and Wedgie have over the Zagi is both have less drag and according to reports here, fly more smoothly and responsively. But the Wedgie is not as rugged as a Zagi and the VT may also be not as tough.

Design an all-EPP wing that's tough as nails with a low-drag, low-profile airfoil, can be fit with a spar sytem and hot power at the field, and looks as cool as a VT, and the wing world might beat a path to your door.
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Old Dec 10, 2001, 10:34 PM
Havin FUN
Gonnacrash's Avatar
United States, KS, Basehor
Joined Sep 2001
573 Posts
New breed

Slowflyer, All I know is I think I want one etc.etc.etc. You might look at E-bay item 1675903749. Sounds like maybe this person has done a bit of research/improvement. Maybe you can e-mail him and get more ideas. Many minds will come up with many ideas. Good luck in your venture to improve and make it more fun for us !!!! Don
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Old Dec 10, 2001, 11:03 PM
Flying slowly along..
Northern Ca.
Joined Dec 2000
1,336 Posts
I was a bit hesitant to name who I will be doing this with until I actually recieved the kits to review, but here goes.

I will be working with the makers of the Wing Warrior line of wings. They are an all epp wing and they already have a 480 e version that is close to production. I am going to research alternative power systems such as tha Mag Mayhem setup. I will also be test thrashing the designs using e power.

The goal is to develop a simple everymans version of the kit. I personally believe that a speed 400 version would be underpowered, but it is hard for me to step back to when I first started flying wings. A speed 400 Zagi seems to almost be a slowflyer to me any more.

I think that the idea of a maybe "stock version" using a sp400/480 and a "Sport" Version that uses a Mag Mayhem would be the way to go. I also like the interchangeable motor idea. If you offered both kits with a 25 amp esc and the cp1300's instead of the 1400 ae's, you could upgrade motors at will by swapping them out and re adjusting the cg. That would be REALLY cool in my book.

Keep the suggestions coming guys----Rob
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Old Dec 10, 2001, 11:25 PM
Profiled Interfractionalist
William A's Avatar
Tacoma,WA USA
Joined Jun 2001
4,039 Posts
I'd have to say both. I love zipping around in my T-Zagi doing stunts and crashing and banging about, but I miss the soaring capabilities this pig once had.

The wing(zagi) I'm building now is going to be light and sleek and be used mostly for soaring. Doing without a motor tray or cover and burying everything in to the wing. Thought about a GWS motor/gearbox but am going with the S400 and a folding prop, I'll try the GWS later.

So the answer Slowflyer, IMHO, would be both. A rough and tough flyer with a titanium nose and a rocket motor for propulsion.
And the other light and sleek and floats on a gopher fart.
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Old Dec 11, 2001, 03:05 PM
Registered User
mtayl's Avatar
Boulder, CO USA
Joined Sep 2001
1,405 Posts
interchangable motors

I like the interchangeable motor idea. I wish I had a second 400 Zagi for slow park flying. Mine is way too fast for a park now.

If the motor mount was sized for a standard MM and you include a rubber shim/cradle type of thing in which the OD fits the MM and the ID fits a 400 can, you can quickly swap motors without screwing up the CG. You do this by adding enough weight to the shim so that it equals the difference between the MM and a 400 motor. Presto chango, a very quick field replaceable motor mount. Tape a weight on the bottom of the shim and you get a 480 mount (weight wise) since I believe the cans are basically the same diameter anyways. You might change the thrust line a bit, but it's probably negligible.

I'm not sure how you attach the mount to the wing. Maybe the simple tie-wrap approach, but that precludes an easy field job unless you bring the tie-wraps/scissors with you. A simple friction fit might work for a pusher configuration with just enough resistance to keep it from falling out the back.
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Old Dec 11, 2001, 03:36 PM
Registered User
Pasadena
Joined Oct 2001
343 Posts
Wing ideas

Just make it fast and strong! I just crashed a foam Terry. ( Radio Interference) The plane looked like a dead skunk on the highway. Keep it simple. Use the MM which we know is simple and fast. Interchangeable engines is a joke. Once you go to the heavier batteries for the MM you lose your ability to thermal these wings. Be realistic about what you're trying to build. Did you ever see Flying Ryan's MM Zagi? Everything was concealed in the Wing. It looked cool and flew really fast. I think the MM still could beat these twin engine jobs. Most people have no idea how well the planes handled with the extra weight and power. Make the wings stiff, the engine fast and above all, don't be greedy. If it's not expensive, you won't be able to keep them in stock.
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Old Dec 11, 2001, 05:55 PM
Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!
Richardson, Texas
Joined Dec 2001
298 Posts
Do something that no one else does. Have it disassemble into several pieces for easy transport. ie backpack for the younger crowd on bikes to the local field or on the dash of my truck and still be able to seat two adults.

How about a bigger wing?

Bungie mount point integral into the wing?

Lights for nite flying?

Good luck and happy flying!
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Old Dec 11, 2001, 07:20 PM
Master of disaster
Travis's Avatar
Northern Virginia
Joined May 2000
707 Posts
I have flown a lot of Zagis that others wanted me to trim out, test
fly or just get my opinion of. These have ranged from stock sp400s to brushless setups pulling 95 amps!

The plane is obviously a good design other than certain minor
flaws: Nothing to grip for a hand launch, rear mounted prop is has
potential to slice up your hand, and it is not pretty with that packing tape covering, plastic fuse top and wing tip verticle stabilizers.

In contrast the Pico jet (combat) is faster, as manuverable, just
as tough and looks like a real jet plane.

Another thought, there is no law that states every flying wing
must have a rear mounted pusher motor. I took a Zagi core
and chopped 6" out of the center section, buried a sp280 w/4:1
gearbox and a 9x6 prop on the nose. A single fin was mounted on
a short boom and the wood elevons were replaced with blu-core.
It flies great on 6 cells.

One item that none of the current wings addreses is a functional
rudder. It is nice to be able to do stall turns, snap rolls and spins.

I prefer to stick with the sp400 as going larger raises costs across
the board. i.e. batteries, esc's, gearboxes, props.

For me the ultimate flying wing is a ME 163 comet. With a front mounted motor. A fiberglass fuse/center section that is true to
scale. And a span of 40" or less should yield good performance
on 8 cells and a sp 400 motor direct drive.
Oh and just for fun maybe an option to put a solid rocket motor
in the tail!
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Old Dec 11, 2001, 11:26 PM
Flying slowly along..
Northern Ca.
Joined Dec 2000
1,336 Posts
I think we are getting just a bit away from the objective. I am not designing a totally new wing, I am merely going to try out different power systems for Wing Warriors existing line up.

I think some of you are right on target though as far as people not knowing how well a Mag Mayhem Zagi performs. Until you've seen one fly or flown one yourself, it's really hard to get the picture.

The question I keep asking myself is, what would make a flying wing better then a Zagi 400X? I answer myself by replying "More power, and get rid of that totally crappy battery tray/motor mount"

Those are basically my two complaints about the Zagi. Also I have noticed that their foam cutting quality has gotten to be VERY sub par on the 3c kit and one other 400x that I've seen. I feel that if you are paying top dollar, you should get top quality.

What I have in mind is ALL electronics buried in the wing (like mine) and a rugged coroplast motor mount (like mine) NO battery ejections, NO tray breakage, MORE power on tap and all epp construction. At an AFFORDABLE price.

I do like the Viper twin, but from what I've seen, it's nowhere near as durable as the Zagi.

I think the combo mentioned above would be a winner.---Rob
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Old Dec 12, 2001, 03:23 PM
Registered User
Pasadena
Joined Oct 2001
343 Posts
Flying Wing

Go For it! I'll wait on buying a 3C and doing the Mods! Just make sure you get good airflow to the battery and motor! Write me if you want me to test for you. I'm using a MM with 8 cell four on the bottom and 3 on top cp1300scr packs and a jeti 350 controller with a hitec 555 receiver. Note I used the razor 600 motor mount on mine and buried the Battery in the wing.
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 12:53 AM
Flying slowly along..
Northern Ca.
Joined Dec 2000
1,336 Posts
Well I recieved 4 sets of wing cores tonight, and I must say that I'm VERY IMPRESSED!! The foam cutting itself was EXCELLENT, no stringy crap, no misaligned edges, none of that type of stuff, I will have to ask if they are cnc or wire cut.

The 4 models that I recieved were: The Zipper, a 30" wingspan, all epp wing that is not yet listed on their site. This one looks very promising as a competitor for the Wedgie. The Slope Slayer, A very manuverable, advanced pilot wing. Also very nice, good high speed possibilities. The Ridge Runner, a Standard combat wing with very good recovery capabilities. I would say that this one is the closest to a standard Zagi design. And lastly , the Raider. WOW What a wide wing cord. This looks like it could be the answer for those looking for a trainer type wing and also for a floater due to the larger wing area.

I am very excited at the potential of this line up of wings. Please keep in mind that they are not yet offered as E Kits. It seems that most of you are just using the wing cores from 3 C's and such anyways, so don't let that stop you.

I will start working on the e power setups for these planes asap and also really wring them out in flight testing.

Please remember, I am not getting paid for any of the development or testing. If it's good I'm going to tell you so. If it sucks I am also going to tell you so. Wish me luck---Rob
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Old Dec 15, 2001, 02:03 AM
Retired USAF, A&P mechanic
Ronbo's Avatar
United States, WA, Puyallup
Joined Jul 2001
427 Posts
slow,

really interested in the 48in versions with sp400 power compared to the e boomer,rocketwing, and zagis.

cant wait for the r/d posts from you! i want to know everything if you do them in sp400 before u go on to the mega motors!
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