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Old Sep 08, 2013, 02:22 PM
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United States, NY, Eastchester
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So Frustrated with HH UM Planes!

I'm new to the hobby (3-4 months), have a Champ I learned to fly on (lots of repairs, but that's expected for a plane you learn to fly on), picked up a UM P40 which I ran into the ground (too much plane much too early, plus everyone says its the most difficult to fly of the UM warbirds anyway, so I don't feel too bad about having blown that one up), picked up Phonix 4.0 to pratice with after having blown up said P40, picked up a UM Spitfire a few weeks ago to give a UM Warbird another chance (which had a faulty elevator and was returned to the LHS before even flying) and now have a UM P51 which I got when returning the Spitfire.

I took my P51 out for her maiden today and ran into problems with the ailerons. I checked my control surfaces before taking off, everything was fine. I did a ROG takeoff from the local ball field (infield dirt) and got off the ground and immediately started pitching to the left. I tried my ailerons to correct, no response. I immediately used rudder and elevator to get her into the air so I could manage to try and bring her in without crashing. I managed to land her softly (for the most part) without causing any damage (a little dirt on her, but that's it). I picked her up, tested the surfaces. Everything was working except the ailerons. I rebound her, nothing. I cut her open and manually turned the gear to the aileron motor and that seemed to unlock it. I re-taped her, rebound, checked the surfaces, took off again and had a good minute or so up in the air before deciding to bring her in for a landing. My landing wasn't perfect, but it wasn't a crash. I stalled about a foot up and then did a belly flop onto the dirt. I was going to take off again, but when I checked the control surfaces, the ailerons were out again. Once again I cut her open and manually rotated the motor gear and everything was working again. Needless to say, there's obviously something wrong with the plane and I need to give HH a call about what to do (as I've flown it, I feel this is between HH and I at this point, not the LHS)

My problem is, being new to the hobby, I'm quickly getting turned off of it. Poor design (P40 being under powered and twitchy) or poor QA/QC (Spitfire and P51 both with faulty electronics) from these HH UM planes are really making me rethink spending money on this stuff. I don't have huge parks to fly in, so I'm limited to what I can get.

Are these planes usually so hit or miss as to whether they actually work or not?
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 02:27 PM
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They do work. Lots of my mates have them and they all fly them fine.

I do not think I'd ever suggest one other than the t28 or the cub to anyone that doesn't have some decent time under their belt.

You'd be far better off with a proper modern foam trainer for now, save the UM stuff or later.
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 03:02 PM
we can take off without that
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Joined Nov 2008
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Dont give up yet. I had a very similar problem when I first got my P51 years ago. Ailerons kept locking out randomly causing a crash. In my case it turend out to be the rubbish stock batteries would drop voltage too much for the aileron servos under load.
As soon as I got some Hyperion 120mah's never had aileron problem again. Try better batteries, anything but the stock ones.

Also, if its your first plane you would be bettero off with a Flyzone Champ, really nice gentle flyer. P51 is a bit twitchy, which is fun and makes is sporty and responsive but can be a handgful.
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1320fastback View Post
They do work. Lots of my mates have them and they all fly them fine.

I do not think I'd ever suggest one other than the t28 or the cub to anyone that doesn't have some decent time under their belt.

You'd be far better off with a proper modern foam trainer for now, save the UM stuff or later.
Thanks for the reply. All things considered, I didn't have any problem flying the P51 while it was working properly (for that one minute or so flight). Even landing it wasn't an issue except for the windy conditions.

Part of the problem with anything other than UMs is that I really don't have too large a place to fly stuff.
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by green_flyer View Post
Dont give up yet. I had a very similar problem when I first got my P51 years ago. Ailerons kept locking out randomly causing a crash. In my case it turend out to be the rubbish stock batteries would drop voltage too much for the aileron servos under load.
As soon as I got some Hyperion 120mah's never had aileron problem again. Try better batteries, anything but the stock ones.

Also, if its your first plane you would be bettero off with a Flyzone Champ, really nice gentle flyer. P51 is a bit twitchy, which is fun and makes is sporty and responsive but can be a handgful.
I have a Champ which I learned to fly on and still love, though I suspect between my crashes, repairs and the number of flights on the motor, it's going to be set to pasture soon. I was flying this one ok for the time I actually had it in the air (I could fly my P40 pretty well until my last little mishap put it out of it's misery), so I'm not so concerned about being able to fly it, assuming I can get one that actually works.

Regarding the batteries, I'd be even more suspect of HHs quality and QA/QC if I had to buy batteries other than the one they supply to actually use their product
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 04:14 PM
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the um stock batts aren't the best ones - i've always picked up better ones from HK.

the roll left you experienced is p-factor. you need a longer takeoff run and use right rudder to compensate. however, avoiding that left-roll automatically comes with practice, so +1 on the t-28 suggestion.

other than that, your planes should last a lot longer from ROGing (as you seem to be doing) rather than belly landing.

the electrical issues i have no suggestions on since i've been lucky enough to have hassle-free micros from HH.
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cmdl View Post
the um stock batts aren't the best ones - i've always picked up better ones from HK.

the roll left you experienced is p-factor. you need a longer takeoff run and use right rudder to compensate. however, avoiding that left-roll automatically comes with practice, so +1 on the t-28 suggestion.

other than that, your planes should last a lot longer from ROGing (as you seem to be doing) rather than belly landing.

the electrical issues i have no suggestions on since i've been lucky enough to have hassle-free micros from HH.
The plane didn't actually roll left on take-off, it pitched left after getting in the air (a combination of a breeze and the ailerons not being trimmed properly I suspect). And yes, ideally, I'd rather take off and land from the ground than drop her in for landing, baby steps

The T-28 was one of the planes I considered, but given that it didn't have the AS3X, I figured the other Warbirds to be better choices for a beginner. Frankly, I'm afraid now that the AS3X just zaps battery power.
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 05:38 PM
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Frankly I'd look for planes without AS3X...

Just fly the plane
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 06:16 PM
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Canada, ON, Mississauga
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The single battery cell airplanes are CHEAP (cheep, cluck cluck).
Look where they are made.

But Horizon hobby has excellent customer support. They will fix it or replace it.
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 1320fastback View Post
Frankly I'd look for planes without AS3X...

Just fly the plane
That's my plan at this point, figure out a good plane to pick up that doesn't have all of the electronic assistance that just sucks up battery life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audioguru View Post
The single battery cell airplanes are CHEAP (cheep, cluck cluck).
Look where they are made.

But Horizon hobby has excellent customer support. They will fix it or replace it.
I sent them an email today, so hopefully they get back to me with a quick resolution.
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 07:40 PM
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Another UM you might consider is the little Beast. It runs on a two cell batt so the reliability and run time goes up. Very stable with the gyro but you can move on to some aerobatic with it.This is the second yr for it and I fly it year round. Here it is with its homade snow boots on.

Gord.
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DrewC View Post
Frankly, I'm afraid now that the AS3X just zaps battery power.
AS3X doesn't zap battery power. It's one of the best things to happen to UM planes. All my E-Flite UMX planes fly awesome. That being said, I also had problems with my P-51D. I don't know how common QC issues are with Parkzone UM planes but the E-Flite UMX stuff seems a whole lot better built. How well were you flying the Champ before you decided to get a more advanced plane?
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by flypaper 2 View Post
Another UM you might consider is the little Beast. It runs on a two cell batt so the reliability and run time goes up. Very stable with the gyro but you can move on to some aerobatic with it.This is the second yr for it and I fly it year round. Here it is with its homade snow boots on.

Gord.
I've tried this out on Phonix 4.0 and it isn't really my taste. It's almost a little TOO responsive.
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Pimpbaa View Post
AS3X doesn't zap battery power. It's one of the best things to happen to UM planes. All my E-Flite UMX planes fly awesome. That being said, I also had problems with my P-51D. I don't know how common QC issues are with Parkzone UM planes but the E-Flite UMX stuff seems a whole lot better built. How well were you flying the Champ before you decided to get a more advanced plane?
That's good to know that the Eflite stuff seems to have a better build quality (though I had assumed that everything is produced by HH anyway?).

I was flying the Champ pretty well when I got the P40, but it was clearly too early for me to move up to that when I did (plus it's apparently under powered which didn't help me get out of stalls and other situations I found myself in). At this point, I love flying the champ, but I can have it do anything I want without fear of crashing, so I feel confident I can fly a warbird. For the minute or so I had the P51 up earlier today. I had no problem with it. Only a few gusts of wind and the aileron problems got in the way of clean landings.
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Old Sep 08, 2013, 08:04 PM
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You can make it as responsive as you like with the trans endpoints and expo. Plus being a bipe, it will slow down much more than the warbirds.
It's all choices.
Gord
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