HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jul 03, 2013, 10:47 AM
One Idiot is plenty...
Dbox's Avatar
United States, OR, Portland
Joined Jun 2005
5,223 Posts
Regarding the tails construction.

Looks like everybody using 1oz kevlar for the hinges and stuck with it.
My guess everybody using 1oz kevlar just because everybody else is using 1oz kevlar and happy
Am I the only one who flies a lot and found that kevlar hinges are not good hinges for extended use?
I work with composites myself and would never use kevlar for hinges in my planes.
I found a very thin nylon fabric in fabric stores which is even lighter then 1oz kevlar and works like a magic for hinges ,lifetime guaranteed.
Yuri.
http://yuricomposites.com
Dbox is online now Find More Posts by Dbox
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jul 03, 2013, 12:48 PM
G_T
Registered User
Joined Apr 2009
5,813 Posts
I like 1oz for hinges - but needs to be biased so all the fibers cross the hingeline. Otherwise it's a half ounce hinge! I also add a piece of clear packing tape at the ends of the hinge and in the horn area as these are where separation starts.

FWIW, nylon gets brittle with UV exposure - as in outdoors.

Gerald
G_T is online now Find More Posts by G_T
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2013, 01:16 PM
Registered User
Thermaln2's Avatar
Reno Nevada
Joined Oct 2007
2,622 Posts
Yuri,

I have been using nylon hinges on my DLGs for years. I like Nylon for two main reasons, first it is white and goes well with white tail foam, and second, because epoxy breaks off much better from the fibers and allows greater flexibility. I have seen no degradation due to the sun. Besides, if a plane last longer than 2 years you are lucky.

I have also investigated the use of a very light spectra cloth. It may be even better. I have traced its use down to very light extreme mountain climber backpacks because they want very light things. they do make it, but I have not found a source to get it, other than buying a backpack and cutting that up. such a waste for money that way.

I use nylon at a 45/45, just like Kevlar, If the nylon is a close weave, then I attempt to add some pinholes in the parts under the FG cloth, to make epoxy rivets of sorts through the nylon. However, if the nylon is wet out, the shear strength of nylon against FG or the foam is sufficient for keeping the hinge material from separating.

Kevlar, BTW also degrades in the sun.

Chris
Thermaln2 is offline Find More Posts by Thermaln2
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2013, 01:58 PM
One Idiot is plenty...
Dbox's Avatar
United States, OR, Portland
Joined Jun 2005
5,223 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by G_T View Post
needs to be biased so all the fibers cross the hingeline.

Gerald
Picture #2 with torn kevlar hinge, is picture of Rolland's Concept 2 .
Everybody is familiar with plane and maker .
Does anybody have doubts about Rolland's skills of composite work?
Yuri
Dbox is online now Find More Posts by Dbox
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2013, 02:06 PM
Flightcomp.com
ak79's Avatar
United States, CA, Torrance
Joined Apr 2006
1,710 Posts
I've noticed nylon hinges on some of my bigger f3j models
ak79 is online now Find More Posts by ak79
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2013, 07:03 PM
UAS Test Pilot
SpeedMaster's Avatar
Norway
Joined Jul 2003
1,130 Posts
Some pictures of my Latigo

Setup will be:

Hyperion ds-09 for ailerons
Mks ds-65mk for elevator
Hitec HS-5045HD for rudder
Rhino 2s 360mah battery
Futaba 6106HFC RX.
SpeedMaster is offline Find More Posts by SpeedMaster
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2013, 03:09 AM
Registered User
Dangair's Avatar
Canada, BC, Anglemont
Joined Mar 2013
319 Posts
Are you guys referring to rip stop nylon? Or light sail cloth? Rips top comes in different weaves so you could orient it many ways.

Stephen
Dangair is offline Find More Posts by Dangair
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2013, 08:00 AM
Aut Viam Inveniam Aut Faciam
verticalspark's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined Oct 2008
4,100 Posts
wow this is a beautiful DLG. Wish I could afford all these nice planes.
verticalspark is offline Find More Posts by verticalspark
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Rocket Crash
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2013, 10:17 AM
Registered User
Thermaln2's Avatar
Reno Nevada
Joined Oct 2007
2,622 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangair View Post
Are you guys referring to rip stop nylon? Or light sail cloth? Rips top comes in different weaves so you could orient it many ways.

Stephen
I have tried ripstop nylons and the weaves are usually very close and difficult to wet out. Ripstop is used in many water repellant products, like tents etc. I tend to use bridal nylons because they are still fine but have a more open weave to get epoxy through. I find it easier to put at a 45/45 because most nylons do not unravel like Kevlar cloths. However, if one sprays nylons with 3M77 to attach it to the foam, it will often peal off as the nylon is a good release. Sometimes I spray with 3m77 a bit heavier than you like, and it dry. It can then be ironed onto the foam to keep it in place. I tend to use a smaller width for the hinge since it can be cut and positioned more easily. You have to be careful when you sand and flex the nylon that you do not sand through it, as it is not as resistant to cutting as Kevlar.

Just my observations.

Chris
Thermaln2 is offline Find More Posts by Thermaln2
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2013, 12:08 PM
Registered User
Dangair's Avatar
Canada, BC, Anglemont
Joined Mar 2013
319 Posts
Seems odd that with all the textile and manufacturing process work done on RC airplanes, the perfect hinge is still elusive. There are lots of textiles out there and I do believe that a hinge should be physically connected for the entire length not just two or three contact points, so a fabric of some kind will most likely be the winner.

Stephen
Dangair is offline Find More Posts by Dangair
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 08, 2013, 12:15 PM
Registered User
Vectorf3f's Avatar
Spain, Community of Madrid, San Fernando de Henares
Joined Mar 2006
36 Posts
Hi Guys!

I'm going to explain why we use Kevlar Instead of other type of textile in the hinges.

We have tried lots of textiles for this job, but no one is as durable as Kevlar, all he nylons used to break easily as Kevlar and it used to stick worse than the Kevlar.

I used to fly very intensively my planes and until today I have never break the hinges.

Could be a very good praxis to apply a light trickle of silicon glue to where the aileron starts. With this hinges will come a bit stiffer but just only a bit, and will Be very durable.
Vectorf3f is offline Find More Posts by Vectorf3f
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 08, 2013, 04:33 PM
Aurora Builder
United States, MD, Lusby
Joined Nov 2003
3,485 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangair View Post
Seems odd that with all the textile and manufacturing process work done on RC airplanes, the perfect hinge is still elusive. There are lots of textiles out there and I do believe that a hinge should be physically connected for the entire length not just two or three contact points, so a fabric of some kind will most likely be the winner.

Stephen
Stephen,

None of this textiles work outside of Vlad's unique carbon material is done for the RC modelling industry. I can't think of another product that was developed specifically for us right now. Lightweight kevlar has military applications and lightweight nylon exists for the bridesmaids of the world, and other forms of Nylon, the slippery kind, were developed for racing sailboats. All of these industries are easily 2x, closer to 10-100x the volume of the RC community.

-Sam
samc99us is online now Find More Posts by samc99us
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 08, 2013, 06:43 PM
UAS Test Pilot
SpeedMaster's Avatar
Norway
Joined Jul 2003
1,130 Posts
Have been busy flying F3F the last couple of days and have not had much time to build the Latigo. So far I`ve only attached the carbon reinforcement on the fin/boom junction and installed a Swindels launch blade. The hardware that comes with the Latigo is the best I`ve seen.

Regarding hinges:

I`ve built wings with both kevlar and "abreissgewebe" and both does work well if done correctly. The most important part is to use the kevlar or abreiss on 45 degrees, so that you get the most number of threads crossing the hingeline.
On fully moulded wings it is important to score the hingeline on both inside and outside before doing the first movement cycle on the rudder. It is also important not to cut too deep.

For those of you who have never heard about "Abreissgewebe"

http://shop1.r-g.de/4DCGI/ezshop?act...COUNT=65543239
SpeedMaster is offline Find More Posts by SpeedMaster
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 08, 2013, 09:58 PM
G_T
Registered User
Joined Apr 2009
5,813 Posts
I also like to put a bit of clear tape at the ends of the hingeline and at the control linkage region. These are the regions where a hinge will fail first and this change largely prevents the failure until the wing is fairly old.

Gerald
G_T is online now Find More Posts by G_T
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 08, 2013, 11:14 PM
Registered User
Dangair's Avatar
Canada, BC, Anglemont
Joined Mar 2013
319 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by G_T View Post
I also like to put a bit of clear tape at the ends of the hingeline and at the control linkage region. These are the regions where a hinge will fail first and this change largely prevents the failure until the wing is fairly old.

Gerald
Gerald, when you say clear tape are you referring to Scotch tape? Or packing tape?

Stephen
Dangair is offline Find More Posts by Dangair
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mini-Review mini DLG (aka Unique DLG) scruffy1 Hand Launch 297 Oct 25, 2014 07:27 PM
Discussion DLG fuse that would fit GP Fling wings? Or cheap DLG? Endlesslag Hand Launch 5 May 07, 2013 06:35 AM
Help! Why are DLGs so expensive and where can I get a Beginner DLG benjamin presten Hand Launch 114 Mar 18, 2013 09:39 PM
Hyper 1.5 (not the DLg version) is it ok for DLG, AeroD79 Hand Launch 2 Aug 16, 2003 04:11 PM
NSP Apache DLG or Sub $200 DLGs Fast-Forward Hand Launch 9 Mar 17, 2003 09:21 AM