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Old Jan 29, 2004, 10:58 AM
AllAloneInSpaceAndTime
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Canada, ON, Guelph
Joined Apr 2003
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First Guillow's Conversion -- Spitfire!

Hi all. This will be my first Guillows conversion to electric and I may need some assistance.

I plan on using a GWS IPS with 3.5:1 gearing running on QC 830 batts. (Hoping to get Polys soon.) The stringers will be replaced with basswood(?). And I will be running an R/E setup. (I only have 3 channels, fourth is 3 position. I'm thinking retracts!)

I have just started building, and found a few trouble areas. The side keels seem to have quite a gap to fit into. Is this alright? Should I glue the keel on the bottom or top of the cutout? Also, the formers don't really have the angle cut into them to fit against the former on the opposite side. Will I need to reinforce this? What should I make the spar out of? The vinyl seems flexible and heavy.

Pics to follow.

Please chime in if you have ANY suggestions or forsee me running into any trouble spots.


Corey
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Old Jan 29, 2004, 11:41 AM
easily confused
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Nashville Metro, Tennessee, United States
Joined Sep 2003
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I have just started building, and found a few trouble areas. The side keels seem to have quite a gap to fit into. Is this alright? Should I glue the keel on the bottom or top of the cutout? Also, the formers don't really have the angle cut into them to fit against the former on the opposite side. Will I need to reinforce this? What should I make the spar out of? The vinyl seems flexible and heavy.

Hey, glad to see another person doing a Guillow's conversion!

First off, don't make the mistake I did with my first Dumas conversion. The Spit's got a pretty small rudder, and I think you'll save yourself a lot of grief if you install ailerons during the build...unless you're planning to add enough dihedral to make the plane look absolutely repulsive.

See my comments on my low wing Northrop Alpha here and see what you think.

I'm currently converting a Guillow's Stuka for 4 channel RC. I wrote my impressions of the kit here, if you're interested.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'vinyl.' You were discussing the spar...? I'm happy with the Northrop's balsa spar, but with bass 1/16" stringer/'spars' on the wings.

Glenn
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Old Jan 29, 2004, 01:21 PM
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United States, CA, Garden Grove
Joined Oct 2000
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More Power Scotty

Two QC 830's may not provide enough oomph, they barely fly my Dare Marionette on a DXA geardrive. Seven 150mah nicads might be better, 8 NiMh 300mah cells would work but shorten motor life. A more powerful geardrive like the twin IPS might be better too. Make provisions for fitting different battery packs/number of cells if possible.
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Old Jan 29, 2004, 01:43 PM
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New Boston, Texas, United States
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Definitly go to ailerons instead of rudder. Except for ground handling you dont need a rudder. Plus you will be capable of a lot more manuvers with ailerons. My $.02

Jim
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Old Jan 29, 2004, 01:56 PM
AllAloneInSpaceAndTime
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Canada, ON, Guelph
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Does anyone have a light and easy way to incorporate ailerons into this wing? I have never done this conversion before. Pics would be helpful.

Corey

BTW, My pics will have to come later. My brother has yet to send them to me.
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Old Jan 29, 2004, 02:13 PM
AllAloneInSpaceAndTime
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Canada, ON, Guelph
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MU2,
Hey, lots of reading. Should be helpful. Thanks.

EC,
More power huh? Thanks for the "leave extra room" suggestion. I will have to do this... I might be going to a DD J250 w 4.5x2 prop when I get the Polys, but for now all I have are the QC cells. (I heard that the DD will be a very scale type power system for thrust. And cheap.)

I could go with a 300C-D gear. But that means another 2oz for batts.


Corey
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Old Jan 29, 2004, 02:17 PM
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Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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Corey, substitute the vinyl parts to 1/16"ply. This was a cost cutter for Guillows.

I agree 100% w/ail/elev. When you build your wing, note the scale ail marls on the wing plan view. I would use 1/8" balsa for the hinge line. That means the ribs will have to be sliced 1/8" on either side of the hinge line on the plans. These are best marked on ribs before assembly. Use a brand new single edge razor blade. You will have to make two additional ribs for the ends of the ail. (4 all together) Sullivan .032 cable and plastic sheath make a good push rod from the servos.

Hinges that work good are Radio South Cy , cut into 1/8" strips.
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Old Jan 29, 2004, 06:13 PM
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Coquitlam BC
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I am also doing a Guillow conversion. (Fokker Dr1) I have lightened the fuse but am unsure whether or not to lighten the wings. I want them to be strong enough to take the load of the airframe in flight with the added weight of the batteries,ect.

What do you guys think? Should I break out the drill? (The wings have bass spars and leading edges... and yes I am using ailerons)
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Old Jan 29, 2004, 06:15 PM
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the lower wing ...of 3
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Old Jan 29, 2004, 09:21 PM
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Manhattan, Kansas, United States
Joined Nov 2001
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Corey,

Take a really good look the the following links to read about two of my conversion projects...Both will give you an idea of how to put ailerons on your Spitfire.

http://mrm1018.tripod.com/mikesparks...s/Bearcat.html

http://mrm1018.tripod.com/mikesparks...s/Corsair.html

Best of luck to you on your conversion!

-Mike
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Old Jan 29, 2004, 11:37 PM
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Nashville Metro, Tennessee, United States
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Hi, Huckebein-

Once your LE is sanded it'll take a bunch of weight off, so I'd imagine you'll be fine.

I'm using bass spars and bass trailing edge for my Stuka. What I am doing that's different is embedding about a 3/32" skein of carbon fiber strands into the balsa leading edge. On my Northrop I just CA'd some to the back of the LE, and it kept the wing intact through a nose first dive into the ground on the awful first flight that tore up the nose...makes it unbelievably strong and weighs about nothing!

You do need to take into account the taper as the ribs get smaller; I almost missed that on the Alpha and would've ended up trying to sand CA'd on carbon...yuck.

Easier way is to take your LE and make a mark at the center of the rib face for the root and tip ribs, then connect the dots with a ruler. Then just run a round file down the pencil mark to deepen it to take the CF. This way you don't have to notch each rib.

I wouldn't do this to your Dr I's wing since it's already built, and I'm sure it's plenty strong as is...but adding the CF to the balsa LE has gotten to be just as standard for me as using the bass stringers.

Good luck on the Tripe-from the burn marks I assume you're building the laser kit at 20" span. What equipment you gonna use?

BTW, St. Martin, what do you mean by 'substitute the vinyl parts to 1/16"ply. This was a cost cutter for Guillows?'

What vinyl?? Am I missing something? I'm working off a vintage Guillow's kit...

PS- OK, I have a CF reinforced LE, bass TE, and bass stringers...does anyone think I should add balsa shear webs between a pair of the top and bottom bass stringers? Seems like overkill at this point to me, but I'm open to suggestion!

Glenn
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Old Jan 30, 2004, 12:08 AM
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Coquitlam BC
Joined Jan 2003
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Glenn

Yep ...she's the laser cut one. I am using the following for gear:

gws dx IPS motor
gws pico receiver
3 Cirrus 4.4 g servos (man they are sooo tiny!!)
Castle Creations Pixie 7P ESC
Kokam 7.4V 2s 340 mAh lipos

Controls are to be A/E/R (pull-pull)
I am going to use sewn hinges
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Old Jan 30, 2004, 01:56 AM
AllAloneInSpaceAndTime
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Canada, ON, Guelph
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Ok. I'm pretty new to balsa planes. So someone has to explain this whole hinge thing. Are they as important as battery or reciever selection? (Hope that doesn't sound too newbie...)

Mike,
Thank you. I believe they are perfect. Are you that Mr. Molt guy? If so its an honor to have you post here. You are doing a very good job of converting alot of foam guys to 'real' builds. (If you can call them that. Apparently they can build in your hands without a flat worktable? )

mu2,
The pics are great. Keep 'em coming. I'm really relieved that there is so much help on these Guillow kit conversions.


Corey
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Old Jan 30, 2004, 06:20 AM
Big gov never Works
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Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by mu2freighter


BTW, St. Martin, what do you mean by 'substitute the vinyl parts to 1/16"ply. This was a cost cutter for Guillows?'

What vinyl?? Am I missing something? I'm working off a vintage Guillow's kit...



Glenn
Glenn, there was a time period when Guillows started replacing all plywood in the kit with PVC. I believe it was around the mid to late seventies. This was my above statement, you reversed it in understanding:

Quote St. Martin
Corey, substitute the vinyl parts to 1/16"ply. This was a cost cutter for Guillows.

This was in response to Corey's inquiry of:
What should I make the spar out of? The vinyl seems flexible and heavy.

Steve
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Old Jan 30, 2004, 08:38 AM
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Nashville Metro, Tennessee, United States
Joined Sep 2003
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Steve-

Gotcha. When I asked if I was missing anything, that was as in, am I missing any info...and I was. Wow, substituting PVC for plywood...to paraphrase Ben Affleck, that's probably the worst mistake since having Greedo shoot first. One more thing to throw out with the crummy Guillow's wood!

Huckebein-

Cool setup, bet it comes out nice and light!

I gotta put my two cents in; I dislike sewn hinges as much as cloth ones...I've never seen sewn hinges that didn't detract from the looks of a nicely finished model. It's your call, but I'd use CA hinges cut down to maybe 1/16" strips, two per side on the elevator and 3 for the rudder. I used 1/8" hinges on my Alpha and they were still far stronger than needed. They attach well with wood glue (yellow aliphatic) for some working time (pic attached).

For the ailerons, I like using a strip of covering material, Solite is easiest obviously, but painted silkspan/airspan/litespan'd work great too. Just my opinion, of course

Glenn
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