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Old Jan 27, 2004, 07:01 PM
Peter Holm
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Speed record of powered aircraft models

Does anybody here have access to a recent Guinness Book of Records?
The edition in my (rather poor) local library is of 1989(!), and the
online version of the Guinness book only offers a reduced sample of
records (the one sought not being among them).
The only speed record of an engine powered aircraft model about which
I know in detail is the one by David Cadman`s BVM Bandit with AMT
Olympus turbine on 9-11-1999 (254.5mph). And someone on this newsgroup
wrote on 11-27-2000 about an Aviation Design Starjet with JPX turbine
going 272mph, but giving neither the date on which it happened nor his
source. I have not found anything more recent.
Can anyone here help me out?
Thanks

Peter
Old Jan 27, 2004, 07:01 PM
JR
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

Try the FAI web site. All official records are on the site... if only you
can navigate it

"Peter Holm" <ph42@infocanarias.com> wrote in message
news:a7028485.0401271213.16c61e39@posting.google.c om...
> Does anybody here have access to a recent Guinness Book of Records?
> The edition in my (rather poor) local library is of 1989(!), and the
> online version of the Guinness book only offers a reduced sample of
> records (the one sought not being among them).
> The only speed record of an engine powered aircraft model about which
> I know in detail is the one by David Cadman`s BVM Bandit with AMT
> Olympus turbine on 9-11-1999 (254.5mph). And someone on this newsgroup
> wrote on 11-27-2000 about an Aviation Design Starjet with JPX turbine
> going 272mph, but giving neither the date on which it happened nor his
> source. I have not found anything more recent.
> Can anyone here help me out?
> Thanks
>
> Peter



Old Jan 27, 2004, 07:01 PM
Paul McIntosh
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

I don't think either of those planes meet the FAI requirements for record
attemps. That would mean that they are not certified world records.

"JR" <jr-ama732@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nUzRb.164785$I06.1632813@attbi_s01...
> Try the FAI web site. All official records are on the site... if only you
> can navigate it
>
> "Peter Holm" <ph42@infocanarias.com> wrote in message
> news:a7028485.0401271213.16c61e39@posting.google.c om...
> > Does anybody here have access to a recent Guinness Book of Records?
> > The edition in my (rather poor) local library is of 1989(!), and the
> > online version of the Guinness book only offers a reduced sample of
> > records (the one sought not being among them).
> > The only speed record of an engine powered aircraft model about which
> > I know in detail is the one by David Cadman`s BVM Bandit with AMT
> > Olympus turbine on 9-11-1999 (254.5mph). And someone on this newsgroup
> > wrote on 11-27-2000 about an Aviation Design Starjet with JPX turbine
> > going 272mph, but giving neither the date on which it happened nor his
> > source. I have not found anything more recent.
> > Can anyone here help me out?
> > Thanks
> >
> > Peter

>
>



Old Jan 28, 2004, 04:00 AM
Brian
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models



Paul McIntosh wrote:
> I don't think either of those planes meet the FAI requirements for record
> attemps. That would mean that they are not certified world records.

FAI records are made under strictly controlled conditions and they don't
show a category for RC reaction engines as they do for CL. However it's
quite possible that the speeds mentioned could have been obtained by the
usual RC method of climbing almost out of sight then diving straight
down which effectively adds the weight of the model to the engine's thrust.
Just for the record (hahaha) these are the highest speeds on the FAI site.
CL 2.5cc 208mph
CL 10cc 214mph
CL reaction (pulse jet I'm sure) 246mph
RC (piston engine) 213.7mph
RC (speed in a closed circuit) 150mph

Old Jan 28, 2004, 04:00 AM
Brian
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

I knew there was something I meant to add to my other post. If you want
to see (and hear!!) the CL world record at 208mph being made then go to
http://www.flyrc.org.uk/ and turn up the volume

Old Jan 28, 2004, 04:00 AM
John Privett
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

Brian wrote:
> I knew there was something I meant to add to my other post. If you
> want to see (and hear!!) the CL world record at 208mph being made
> then go to http://www.flyrc.org.uk/ and turn up the volume


I was just about to add that myself ! The link to the video is the second
item on the left-hand side of the opening page.

Paul says the engine was turning at over 36000rpm. I got an email from
someone in Oz who reckoned they'd analysed the video soundtrack and
calculated a speed of over 39000rpm. Whichever it is, I doubt many of us
have heard a 2-stroke engine running that fast ;-)

--
John P. - who flies on Epsom Downs, UK.
http://www.flyrc.org.uk/
I'm sick of spam, so replace 'nojunkthanks' with 'john' if you want me
to read any e-mailed reply!


Old Jan 28, 2004, 04:00 AM
Martin X. Moleski, SJ
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:30:33 -0000, "John Privett"
<nojunkthanks@flyrc.org.uk> wrote:

>Brian wrote:
>> I knew there was something I meant to add to my other post. If you
>> want to see (and hear!!) the CL world record at 208mph being made
>> then go to http://www.flyrc.org.uk/ and turn up the volume

>
>I was just about to add that myself ! The link to the video is the second
>item on the left-hand side of the opening page.
>
>Paul says the engine was turning at over 36000rpm. I got an email from
>someone in Oz who reckoned they'd analysed the video soundtrack and
>calculated a speed of over 39000rpm. Whichever it is, I doubt many of us
>have heard a 2-stroke engine running that fast ;-)


Yeehaw! Pretty impressive all the way around.

Thanks for the link.

Marty
Old Jan 28, 2004, 07:00 PM
M Dennett
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

Thanks for that! I've never had the chance to see C/L speed in action, so
this was a treat. I have seen FAI FF models which don;t run all that much
slower - one fellow told me he was taching about 29k on the ground and
figured it unloaded to around 33k on the way up. Eerie sounds!

Mike D.

"Brian" <spamsceptre@coolcats.net.au> wrote in message
news:4017074A.8090407@coolcats.net.au...
> I knew there was something I meant to add to my other post. If you want
> to see (and hear!!) the CL world record at 208mph being made then go to
> http://www.flyrc.org.uk/ and turn up the volume
>



Old Jan 28, 2004, 07:00 PM
Peter Holm
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

Thank you for your kind attempts, guys, but this thread has gotten off
the track. Nowhere have I indicated (nor do I have) any interest in
FAI records. Besides, they are easily available online (www.fai.org).

Instead, I have specifically asked for the speed record of powered
aircraft models (and I should have added: Remote Controlled) as listed
in a recent *GUINNESS BOOK OF RECORDS*.

Hope I have made myself clear this time. Does anybody here have access
to a recent edition of this book?
Thanks very much in advance for your help.

Peter
Old Jan 28, 2004, 07:00 PM
GuW
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

After watching that CL video, I must ask, what does that have to do with
airplanes?

An airplane to me is something that can fly, not an engine on a piece of
string.
Sure, it didnt touch the ground during "flight" but if I spin a bucket of
dung around with a piece of string, it doesnt maket it an airplane...

It is however impressing to see and hear a engine going like that.


Old Jan 29, 2004, 04:00 AM
andy asberry
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:53:21 +0100, "GuW" <not@all.com> wrote:

>After watching that CL video, I must ask, what does that have to do with
>airplanes?
>
>An airplane to me is something that can fly, not an engine on a piece of
>string.
>Sure, it didnt touch the ground during "flight" but if I spin a bucket of
>dung around with a piece of string, it doesnt maket it an airplane...
>
>It is however impressing to see and hear a engine going like that.
>


Speaking of an engine on a string. A neighbor kid had a little, maybe
6" long, plastic toy car with a surf board on top. He took a .15
engine from a crashed plane and mounted it on top of the surfboard. A
short bridle to keep the thing pointed in the correct direction
connected to a line that was attached to a nail-type tent peg driven
into the pavement. The radius of this circle was maybe 20 feet.

Fired it up and let it go running wide open. On the second circuit, it
went airborne about 8" off the deck. I don't know if it was the
centrifugal force or the semi-airfoil shape of the surfboard but it
remained aloft (?) until the fuel was exhausted. I have no idea of the
speed but it was very impressive.
Old Jan 29, 2004, 07:01 PM
Brian
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

I think everyone knew what you wanted but how well does the speed have
to be verified? FAI conditions are very strict which eliminates the
cowboys who claim to go faster than 200mph with their OS40LA powered
Diamond Dusters. What about the glider that NASA dropped from a high
altitude balloon and approached Mach1? Or this link
http://www.justengines.unseen.org/gbrec.htm to a British RC speed record
of almost 184mph where a practise run reached 234mph but the timing
equipment was suspect (not to mention that the engine would have had to
have suddenly doubled its HP)? I doubt that the Guiness book of records
is terribly interested in the methods used to claim a record so long as
the measuring equipment is more sophisticated than an egg timer

Peter Holm wrote:
> Thank you for your kind attempts, guys, but this thread has gotten off
> the track. Nowhere have I indicated (nor do I have) any interest in
> FAI records. Besides, they are easily available online (www.fai.org).
>
> Instead, I have specifically asked for the speed record of powered
> aircraft models (and I should have added: Remote Controlled) as listed
> in a recent *GUINNESS BOOK OF RECORDS*.
>
> Hope I have made myself clear this time. Does anybody here have access
> to a recent edition of this book?
> Thanks very much in advance for your help.
>
> Peter


Old Jan 29, 2004, 07:01 PM
Dr1Driver
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

>GUINNESS BOOK OF RECORDS*.
>>
>> Hope I have made myself clear this time. Does anybody here have access
>> to a recent edition of this book?


Perfectly clear...
Maybe Barnes & Noble?
Dr.1 Driver
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Old Jan 30, 2004, 07:01 PM
M Dennett
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

Be nice - it's still flying. The airplane was flying on the wing when it
took off, and before the motor staged onto the pipe. It glided to a landing
too. The maximum wing loading allowed is only about 32 oz/sq. ft., which at
that speed is perfectly within reason for flight as we know it. Actually I
think there are many .60 size scale models in that wing loading regime. Your
comment got me curious about the forces involved and the issue of
centrifugal force, lift etc.

Minimum wing area = 2dm^2 per cc of displacement.

Therefore minimum wing area is 5 dm^2 (77.5 in^2)

Maximum wing loading is 100g/dm^2, therefore maximum weight at minimum wing
loading is 500 grams. These limits set by FAI ensure that the model does
indeed suffer the penalities of induced drag and profile drag from the
flying surfaces.

Sure there's a whack of centrifugal force (250N or 55lb!) there
supplementing lift at full speed, but the wing and stab still do their job.
And of course it is impossible to fly horizontal on centrifugal force alone.
The line angle must be less than 90 degrees from vertical or there is no
vertical force component to keep the model up. If you look at the video the
model does not fly that low.

In fact, at that speed and line length the model would be at an angle of
1.15 degrees below horizontal to stay up without lift, which works out to
0.36m. That is possible of course, as the minimum yoke height is 1.1 meters
thus the model would be at least 0.74m high. However, the flight would be
disqualified since you cannot fly lower than 1m for more than 1 lap. The
rules say it must not fly lower than 1m or higher then 3m for more than one
lap, and can never exceed 6m.

But to leave the ground at all with the yoke at 1.1m high without a wing, it
would have to reach 52.73 m/s, or 118mph. With a .15 not staged on the pipe
running fat on a one blade 5.8" prop and the drag of the wheeled dolly, it
ain't gonna do it.

I personally think C/L speed is way cool. Getting a .15 to go 208 mph WITH
the drag of the lines is no mean feat! I wonder how the h--- fast you could
get one of those motors to fly on a small clean R/C model without line drag?
Perhaps not much more as the aircraft would have to be a little larger to
(a) see and (b) hold gear.

I'd hate to imagine the centirfugal force of a D speed model (.65) at the
higher weight and similar speeds. Ouch!

Mike D.




"GuW" <not@all.com> wrote in message news:bv8suj$p3l$1@green.tninet.se...
> After watching that CL video, I must ask, what does that have to do with
> airplanes?
>
> An airplane to me is something that can fly, not an engine on a piece of
> string.
> Sure, it didnt touch the ground during "flight" but if I spin a bucket of
> dung around with a piece of string, it doesnt maket it an airplane...
>
> It is however impressing to see and hear a engine going like that.
>
>



Old Feb 02, 2004, 07:01 PM
M Dennett
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Speed record of powered aircraft models

Lighten up - you've jumped on people for not providing you with the precise
answer to your question, then criticized them for discussing subtopics that
are spawned by that question. It's a newsgroup, man, this is what happens.
Perhaps you could simply thank people who may happen to answer your
question, and let the rest ramble on on their own topics without insulting
them. Keep on at people like you do below and you'll be real lucky to get an
answer from anyone.

If you attack one facet of this hobby with disparaging comments, such as
criticizing control line aircraft as not really flying (that was another
poster), or being "the most dangerous", then people who are advocates of
those models or simply those who do not like such comments are going to
invest the time to get their point to the contrary across.

My comments for example were in response to someone else's unwarranted and
technically inaccurate statement about the C/L FAI speed record flight. My
pleasure at watching the video of that model was a direct result of your
original question, which prompted someone to offer the link to that
particular record being set, and so on. Then I got to thinking about the
physics of the flight, and decided to figure out how much of a role the
wings play. It's not an answer to your question, but it was an enjoyable
diversion that I thought might be of interest to some of those who commented
on that flight/video.

My two cents worth - nearly all model airplanes are potentially dangerous,
the exception being perhaps light weight rubber or glider models. I've had a
hell of a lot more close shaves and scares with R/C models than with control
line. I've had idiots land over the pits with .60 size models and felt the
downwash from the wings it was so close to my head. I've had idiots not
check the strip for bodies, simply set the model down and pin the throttle -
towards me as I was retrieving a stalled model (I fell flat to the ground
and was missed). I've ducked behind my car to avoid flying debris from a
midair between pylon racers. I saw a ducted fan jet tip stall on takeoff and
whomp into the ground in the spectator area (at Muncie HQ). The list goes
on. Control line scares me a lot less than R/C! With C/L generally you know
the model is going to hit in the circle.

Mike D.




>
> Since you guys have been so "helpful", I have invested the time and
> gasoline to drive to the next university library which has the 91, 01
> and 04 editions of the Guinness book. So here is what I found out:
>
> Therefore, the correct answer to my original question which started
> this thread five days ago would have been:
> There does no more exist one generally recognized speed record for
> radio controlled engine powered model aircraft. Neither in the FAI
> nor in the Guinness Book of Records.
>
> Seems strange that aparently nobody here knew that. Or perhaps you
> guys just looked for an oportunity to babble about a desperately
> whining 2-stroke motor tied to a string? To add my 2 cents worth on
> this subject: I consider control line aircraft models to be the most
> dangerous ones of all, since these things fly just neck high: They are
> potential flying guillotines.
>
> Peter



 


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