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Old Jun 28, 2013, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by trickedout View Post
Hey Tom, Do you have any Experience with the Boscam HD19? Being as these both are HD and offer Video out how do you think they compare? Also How does the Video out compare to dedicated fpv cams like the z4020 on securitycamera2000??
uh..search on youtube, you may found some interesting video.
search "securitycamera2000 PZ0420", there are some videos for customers' reference.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 02:46 AM
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uh..search on youtube, you may found some interesting video.
search "securitycamera2000 PZ0420", there are some videos for customers' reference.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
About video out the question are:

Is thre any unwanted OSD added by camera?

Since camera is 16:9 and av is 4:3 ... do you get black lines up and down, or it crop the left side video, or it mess up with proportions, making all object taller ?

Boscam just got a firmware update for improve the av out. And it is quite good now in my view
But I don't know nothing about av out from mobius

I take it you are referring to the Mobius. You can set the output format ratio to either 16:9 or 4:3.
In 16:9 mode you get the black lines.
In 4:3 mode the picture is vertically stretched so there are no black lines. At least that's how my monitor shows the picture. The video completely fills the screen.
There are no icons messing up the display except in playback mode where a timer and a small pause/play icon is shown. You can also set the output to PAL or NTSC.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 04:58 AM
jhi
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
It works, but I had to D/L the entire folder to see one video. Only one of the videos would play properly for me... the 720p-60fps MOV file. The other two MOV files would not show any video with WMP, but played fine with VLC player. They looked GORGEOUS, but YouTube has sure butchered them! There is no way the YouTube clips do justice to the quality of the native video.

I can't figure out why the 1080p MOV files do not play with WMP. Did you just rename them, or has there been some other editing done to them? Windows File Properties do not show any video information for them, while media info does, so there is something fractured in the file structure. The 1080p .AVI file also does not play properly with WMP... it produces audio but no video, but again VLC plays them fine.

If the files have not been tampered with in any way, there is something strange going on with your camera. Maybe you should download and re-install the 0.32 FW since the colors you are getting are not representative of the 0.32 palette.

Can you upload a clip straight off the camera with the default file name format so it can be easily identified as a native camera file?
Tom and all,
Thank you for your comments on my videoes and trying to help!
I guess I brought it upon myself, but very excited over the video quality and full of hybris I rushed the first post to RcGroups.
I did not expect so many questions about my procedures publishing the material. We all make mistakes, I shall disclose one of mine at the end of this post .
Just to recap:
1) Please go back to post #36. Misunderstandings about Vimeo not presenting 1080p has been cleared. I uploaded 1080p material, Vimeo degraded to what they call HD - 720p with a low bitrate - also see post #62
2) Post #36 again. Uploaded 1080p (cropped with AviDemux) to YouTube, first "REC_0015", and later "REC_0017" for comparison. I think "REC_0017" looked better regarding the "blue shift", but got no comments.
3) Firmware. Please go to post #44 and have a look at the screenshots taken immediately after Isoprop thought I must have used old fw. The screenshot shows "Bootloader=001 Firmware=2013/06/25 v032". This is the fw I used at the beach, I just opened mSetup and connected the camera to show status. Fw update from mSetup was not possible at that time - confirmed by Isoprop. Going back to 0.32 to shoot the last part of the clip, I again had to manually install the fw (a well known procedure by now). To be sure I downloaded the 0.32 fw again with mSetup, unzipped and copied FWTLCAM.BIN back to the PC folder and camera memory card.
4) Post #49. Clips with fw 0.32 - 0.26 - 0.32(new?). First clip was made with the same fw as was loaded on the beach (yes I am sure) - (presumable latest) 0.32 - see above. Both first and last part of the clip shows normal sky color, the middle 0.26 fw is abnormal. I have no explanation other than different location and a couple of hours later.
5)Video cutting - AviDemux. See post #80 (Normandy5), #69 (Tom) and #76 (me).
Lately I have used AviDemux to remove the start/end, boring material in the middle and to protect privacy (for the people around me). I always use VLC for playback, and never experienced the problem you have with other players. YouTube and Vimeo did not mind either. Now my mistake: I am lazy, and sometimes/often I copy the filename from the source file in the "save" dialog - rename it by adding "crop" or similar. The result is renaming of the extension also - should have been .AVI - I guess - but became .MOV. I apologize! Anyway, VLC does not care . I am pretty sure no ordinary re-encoding is happening, it takes only a second or two, and my 2 year i7 processor is not that fast!
6) Watching videos in YouTube. Tom, you keep complaining about the playback quality from YouTube - I wonder if we see the same... I just made a test on my computer with a 27" Fujitsu monitor (resolution 2560x1440), comparing original material and playback 1080p mode from YouTube - full screen. There is a difference, but to my eyes not as you describe as "butchered". PS - I have no stocks in YouTube .
7) Cloudy today, so not able to redo any of the scenes from yesterday - will do as soon as the sky is blue again..

Have a nice day all!

EDIT
Forgot to mention - no OSD or VideoOut cable connected yesterday..

-Jan
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Last edited by jhi; Jun 28, 2013 at 08:35 AM. Reason: .. spelling VLC
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jhi View Post
....
5)Video cutting - AviDemux. See post #80 (Normandy5), #69 (Tom) and #76 (me).
Lately I have used AviDemux to remove the start/end, boring material in the middle and to protect personal integrity (people around me). I always use VLC for playback, and never experienced the problem you have with other players. YouTube and Vimeo did not mind either. Now my mistake: I am lazy, and sometimes/often I copy the filename from the source file in the "save" dialog - rename it by adding "crop" or similar. The result is renaming of the extension also - should have been .AVI - I guess - but became .MOV. I apologize! Anyway, AVC does not care . I am pretty sure no ordinary recoding is happening, it takes only a second or two, and my 2 year i7 processor is not that fast!
6) Watching videos in YouTube. Tom, you keep complaining about the playback quality from YouTube - I wonder if we see the same... I just made a test on my computer with a 27" Fujitsu monitor (resolution 2560x1440), comparing original material and playback 1080p mode from YouTube - full screen. There is a difference, but to my eyes not as you describe as "butchered". PS - I have no stocks in YouTube .
....
-Jan
About AviDemux (which I use a lot ) ... I would suggest to select output format in MKV.
MKV is the most generic video/streams container ... it is also the one that works best for play my video directly on my, old, and not so smart HD TV
MKV is fully supported by VLC, Android and YouTube, and possibly by many other stuffs.

Personally I hate re-encoding ... it will reduce quality and it will sucks tons of CPU and real time ... with AviDemux at the speed of the HD/micoSR read/write I can crop my video keeping original video quality, as well, I can make multiple crops, and then combine into a single video ... so the basic editing without any re-encoding...

About YouTube ... I personally think that it is a brilliant service, quality is OK .. but mainly it is the first and only service that I know, that share the Adv revenues with the "customers" ... so not only YouTube provide a service for free to us, but also give us back few "cents" as a gift from the Adv clicks ... like RCGroups would give us back some cent for each post, since this attract reader and these may click on some Adv.

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Old Jun 28, 2013, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I've tested a much wider AOV lens for the Mobius that has excellent video properties (assuming the inherent fisheye distortion doesn't bother you), and in 720p-60fps mode it has an AOV only about 10 deg (estimate) less than the standard lens in 1080p mode. This lens is not yet available.
Does this lens attach to the camera as an auxiliary lens, or do you have to replace the camera"s lens like the #16?

And do you know when/if it will be available?

Thanks
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Thanks for post this. You settings are virtually the same as mine, but I cannot explain why you are getting that un-natural azure blue sky! That was eradicated a couple FW revisions ago, and does not show up in my video clips!
I have a possible explanation.

The difference between you (Tom Frank) and other users here is that you installed other firmware versions between 0.26 and 0.32
A couple of FW revisions ago (let's say version 0.30) there could have been a patch that changed some parameters in the cam to fix the blue sky. Maybe that patch was included only (or worked only) with that specific firmware.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jhi View Post
Hello,

I never shared anything from Dropbox before - let's see if this works
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hw1zgqmvv48zjrh/7d3vEXbIm4

-Jan
What are those horizontal lines that occur at around 1:40 in the first video? Otherwise outstanding quality.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 07:55 AM
jhi
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Originally Posted by frisk2k View Post
What are those horizontal lines that occur at around 1:40 in the first video? Otherwise outstanding quality.
You mean the second video - first post...
I don't know, checked the original - same hor. lines there - no encoding issue or YouTube for sure. Looks like the right turn and abrupt change of scene was a little challenging - anyway bearly noticeable - you have sharp eyes

-Jan
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jhi View Post
Hello,

I never shared anything from Dropbox before - let's see if this works
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hw1zgqmvv48zjrh/7d3vEXbIm4

-Jan
yes the quality IS very good.
I'm glad that you replaces the sound track in the 'production' version, the electronic war going on to keep the machine in the air did no improve my hearing at all
thanks
Mike
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 08:06 AM
jhi
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Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
yes the quality IS very good.
I'm glad that you replaces the sound track in the 'production' version, the electronic war going on to keep the machine in the air did no improve my hearing at all
thanks
Mike
Hehe - it cost me $1.99 on Vimeo - discovered later that I could have had music for free - oh well.
hmmm - all I do for you!

-Jan
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by lensman82 View Post
I have a possible explanation.

The difference between you (Tom Frank) and other users here is that you installed other firmware versions between 0.26 and 0.32
A couple of FW revisions ago (let's say version 0.30) there could have been a patch that changed some parameters in the cam to fix the blue sky. Maybe that patch was included only (or worked only) with that specific firmware.
There are no "patches" as such. The firmware comes complete. You can downgrade and upgrade the Mobius as often as you want. We do this all the time during testing, but I can see a bit of logic in your reply. But why were the three clips in jhi's video correct, i.e. only the middle clip showed an azure blue sky? Very, very strange.

Anyway, some people seem to like the fake blue sky. I have to admit that it's different
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by frisk2k View Post
What are those horizontal lines that occur at around 1:40 in the first video? Otherwise outstanding quality.
I think it's just lens flare with the sunlight passing through a prop.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 08:25 AM
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Had a nice email from Mandy at eletoponline365 today, saying they were very sorry but some of the early orders (I was no 1 ) might be shipped with the v0.29 firmware. v0.32 was attached to the email with full details on how to load it ... plus information on the GUI as well.

A really good, clear, helpful bit of communication from a seller who really deserves their 'authorised' status. Oh and it also said: "We included a TV out cable in the parcel as a gift for you."
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Glover View Post
.
A really good, clear, helpful bit of communication from a seller who really deserves their 'authorised' status. Oh and it also said: "We included a TV out cable in the parcel as a gift for you."
They must like you Bill as I had to pay an extra $4.50 for mine.....
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 08:34 AM
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when can we expect Android apps for remote video output?
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Glover View Post
Had a nice email from Mandy at eletoponline365 today, saying they were very sorry but some of the early orders (I was no 1 ) might be shipped with the v0.29 firmware. v0.32 was attached to the email with full details on how to load it ... plus information on the GUI as well.

A really good, clear, helpful bit of communication from a seller who really deserves their 'authorised' status. Oh and it also said: "We included a TV out cable in the parcel as a gift for you."
Mandy must like you

I did not got any messages, and I will see if I will get the TV out cable ... actually I did order the wrong one before it was listed the right one for the Mobius.



ps: 65 Mobius sold already from Mandy
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by wexter View Post
when can we expect Android apps for remote video output?
I would guess that "therau2000" in on the case and will let us know in the fullness of time.

So far he has done the control panel so he's half way there.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...?id=therau2000
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 08:52 AM
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I remember we got a free spare battery when the #16 first came out, so I did wonder if there might be a little something included with the Mobius.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Glover View Post
I remember we got a free spare battery when the #16 first came out, so I did wonder if there might be a little something included with the Mobius.
JooVuu.com includes a free cardboard case for the Mobius but not really on par with any electronics.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by PedroDank View Post
About the case: it is not efficient, Tom. It heats a lot because too much air is trapped inside. The case should follow the design of the camera and should only be used when placed in moving objects to get some wind. The closer it is to the camera, the quicker it cools down the little air inside and the quicker the cooler gets transferred to it IF a proper heat-sink is installed. I would like to see some temperature readings with that case vs one as I described paired with a metal plate on top that also follows the top curves on the front (this is the are that is more prone to wind) which thens goes directly to the heatsink on its house.

I apologize if I could not explain it better. Had a really really rough day, so I'm tired and it is 3am here. 5h sleep - yey!
You explained it OK, and though I didn't go into all the physics of heat transfer, being an engineer in a former life I know it thoroughly. This is a well known problem with RC electric motor ESCs that are boxed into a much larger enclosure with no flow through ventilation to remove heat.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Glover View Post
Had a nice email from Mandy at eletoponline365 today, saying they were very sorry but some of the early orders (I was no 1 ) might be shipped with the v0.29 firmware. v0.32 was attached to the email with full details on how to load it ... plus information on the GUI as well.

A really good, clear, helpful bit of communication from a seller who really deserves their 'authorised' status. Oh and it also said: "We included a TV out cable in the parcel as a gift for you."
There were two v0.29 firmware versions. One with azure blue sky, one without
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 11:06 AM
Dance the skies...
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Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
...
Personally I hate re-encoding ... it will reduce quality and it will sucks tons of CPU and real time ... with AviDemux at the speed of the HD/micoSR read/write I can crop my video keeping original video quality, as well, I can make multiple crops, and then combine into a single video ... so the basic editing without any re-encoding...

About YouTube ... I personally think that it is a brilliant service, quality is OK .. but mainly it is the first and only service that I know, that share the Adv revenues with the "customers" ... so not only YouTube provide a service for free to us, but also give us back few "cents" as a gift from the Adv clicks ... like RCGroups would give us back some cent for each post, since this attract reader and these may click on some Adv.

The terminology "crop" is normally use when you modify the video frame dimensions by removing some part of it, and that always re-quires re-encoding since you are not doing a direct copy of the original frame. So I was confused and maybe others as well. To do a direct copy, you can only trim (cut out unwanted sections of the video). Any modification of the original video (i.e. use of any of the available filters, like the "crop" filter) will mandate re-encoding.

FWIW, it's all the ads and other videos that YouTube throws at you that I hate. I know, its a free service that has to be paid for, but Vimeo doesn't do it with such abandon. However, they have seriously down-graded their video presentation, so I'm not big on them anymore either.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 11:07 AM
Dance the skies...
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Originally Posted by Akura2 View Post
Does this lens attach to the camera as an auxiliary lens, or do you have to replace the camera"s lens like the #16?

And do you know when/if it will be available?

Thanks
No, yes, and I don't know.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 11:11 AM
Dance the skies...
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Originally Posted by lensman82 View Post
I have a possible explanation.

The difference between you (Tom Frank) and other users here is that you installed other firmware versions between 0.26 and 0.32
A couple of FW revisions ago (let's say version 0.30) there could have been a patch that changed some parameters in the cam to fix the blue sky. Maybe that patch was included only (or worked only) with that specific firmware.
yes, of course (I've tested many FW versions), but the discussion (which I must have misunderstood) sounded like the azure blue sky was occurring with v.32, which it should not. I think this has finally been clear up.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 11:21 AM
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I updated the .32 firmware manually and took some more videos this AM. BTW I don't edit my videos as you can see from the bloopers, I upload them to YouTube untouched. You can see a little color shifting in the .32 video and briefly what looks like a brief glitch in the recording. I'm using the 8GB Kingston cards from Eletoponline:

Previous videos on older .26 firmware:

V212 Recorded with Mobius 1080p mini camera (8 min 38 sec)

Frankenquad (V202) flight recorded with Mobius 1080p mini camera (5 min 32 sec)


.32 firmware:

V212 AM flight, no light poles to hit (7 min 10 sec)

Frankenquad AM flight, no light poles to hit (5 min 33 sec)
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by wexter View Post
when can we expect Android apps for remote video output?
See post #3 and contact the app developer directly.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:04 PM
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Vendor Communication Protocol

I though it appropriate to include a post for users and vendors alike. This web site has forum rules for vendors as follows:
Excessive Advertising (Spam)
We allow one advertisement per week per forum per user. An advertisement is any content designed to sell or publicize an event, good, or service. Note that certain areas of the site (including the classifieds and vendor sections) are exempt from this rule.
As more re-sellers are wanting to carry the Mobius, I don't want this thread to become a regular weekly advertising venue. I also don't want this thread to become a means of communication with specific vendors... they all have web sites and/or email for that.

So, I'm asking vendors to limit posting about their Mobius offerings only when something out of the ordinary is going on, like a special promotion, sale, etc., and to also post their email or web link asking responders to use that method for further communication. And likewise, I'm asking responders to not just reply to a vendor post with another post of their own, but to go private with it via the listed communication method.

This request will soon get buried in the mass of posts that are to come, so I'm including a link to it in Post #2 as well.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:08 PM
Inciting Riots
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FYI:

I received an email early this morning from eletoponline that said several of the cameras purchased yesterday were shipped with an older firmware and that mine was one of them. They included the 0.32 firmware with the email. I replied that I would have checked it before use and that I kind of expect another version before I receive my camera anyway so no big deal... A couple minutes later I received another message saying thanks for understanding and hope you enjoy the camera when it arrives.

I didn't get that level of service from GoPro or Replay, JVC has been pretty quick to respond when I sent them questions regarding my Adixxion camera.

As far as live video for shot set up with Android, if this camera operates in webcam mode, the current #16ext application should work. It worked fine with my #16 and #18 cameras, didn't have any other cameras to try at the time.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Glover View Post
Had a nice email from Mandy at eletoponline365 today, saying they were very sorry but some of the early orders (I was no 1 ) might be shipped with the v0.29 firmware. v0.32 was attached to the email with full details on how to load it ... plus information on the GUI as well.
I got the same email... I wonder if this was truly a mistake or if they purposely outsource their manual work to customers.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:18 PM
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In the V212 0.32 video there was a little full time auto white shifting going on, but not too bad, the 1080 video right below it had a lot of white balance shifting.

Now the question is, what white balance setting were you using? I tend to like to lock my cameras into the correct (or closest) setting for the lighting so I would have set it for daylight, what does it do if you make a manual WB setting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fintastic View Post
I got the same email... I wonder if this was truly a mistake or if they purposely outsource their manual work to customers.

Not sure if I care, the first thing I do is start charging batteries and check firmware versions for any of these action/POV cameras.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:27 PM
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I got the same email... I wonder if this was truly a mistake or if they purposely outsource their manual work to customers.
I would think it's quicker (all of 30 seconds with a read-only card) to update the firmware than to have the hassle of sending emails plus attachments.

Most likely they packaged a bunch of cameras in advance so they could send them off immediately they were ordered. What would you prefer? To wait a bit longer or have the latest firmware installed? Don't forget the firmware may not be the latest version by the time you receive the camera . Anyway, what's important is the excellent service and support the sellers provide.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jhi View Post
Hello,

I never shared anything from Dropbox before - let's see if this works
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hw1zgqmvv48zjrh/7d3vEXbIm4

-Jan
Dear Jan! This videos really raw material, without post processing? 'cause the quality is marvellous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
I have tried VideoOut on my mini octocopter. I am also new to FPV piloting, but for me the camera is perfect - don't know the AOV for VideoOut, I guess about the same as 720p-60fps. Total weight for my FPV equipment is only ab. 78g! (5.8Ghz VTX, simple OSD and Mobius).

-Jan
Maybe can you upload a sample video from live out? Don't necessary flying video, enough any short clip.

Thanks for help!
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Most likely they packaged a bunch of cameras in advance so they could send them off immediately they were ordered.
Yes I think some of the cameras were "pre-packaged for immediate shipping", and I don't mind at all.

But in that case they also could've sold and shipped these cameras 2 weeks ago already. By the time the camera had arrived, the final firmware would've probably been released... And if not, then that wouldn't have been a big deal either.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 12:58 PM
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ExtCam Mobius AC HD availability

For everyone's benefit (and to save me time from answering a lot of emails on this subject), here is the current state of affairs:

A bug in the WebCam module included in the Mobius AC camera firmware disables access from Android without affecting Linux, Windows, and probably Mac.

The developer does not have the source code for that WebCam module, so this bug can only be fixed by the DSP chip manufacturer.

As soon as this bug is fixed, ExtCam Mobius AC HD will be available in Play Store.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 01:37 PM
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Shoutout to JooVuu, who refunded me the shipping costs for the Mobius, even though I pre-ordered it! Thanks!
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 01:40 PM
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It is the finale release which have been launched or it is just again a pre-release version?
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 01:50 PM
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It is the finale release which have been launched or it is just again a pre-release version?
Both kind of...

Some of the cameras they ship have old pre-release firmware, but it can be easily flashed with the current firmware.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 01:53 PM
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It is the finale release which have been launched or it is just again a pre-release version?
The pre-release cameras did not have a recording indicator LED on their rear end; the final release cameras do.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 02:19 PM
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Shoutout to JooVuu, who refunded me the shipping costs for the Mobius, even though I pre-ordered it! Thanks!
Mine from JooVuu with rear LED and V0.32 turned up today, so that's pretty good service as far as I'm concerned. (and he's refunded shipping)

I know JooVuu came out the blue to Tom and the gang, but as JooVuu had pre-release versions direct from the developer and thus far seems to have delivered fair service I'm at a loss as to why they are not in the sellers list at the start of this thread.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 02:35 PM
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I forgot to ask: the 80 minute runtime announced was measure at what quality?
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 02:55 PM
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The pre-release cameras did not have a recording indicator LED on their rear end; the final release cameras do.
So there are pre-release cameras. Ok thanks. There will be a difference in performance with the final version?
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 03:05 PM
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So there are pre-release cameras. Ok thanks. There will be a difference in performance with the final version?
No, the final version is out now.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 03:08 PM
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I forgot to ask: the 80 minute runtime announced was measure at what quality?
Standard settings. i.e. standard video data rate and 1080p with sound turned on.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 03:12 PM
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So there are pre-release cameras. Ok thanks. There will be a difference in performance with the final version?
There's no difference in "performance" if you imply video quality or firmware compatibility. Both models are identical except for the rear LED, which is only cosmetic.

The pre-release cameras were sold before you could blink!
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 03:31 PM
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but as JooVuu had pre-release versions direct from the developer and thus far seems to have delivered fair service I'm at a loss as to why they are not in the sellers list at the start of this thread.
Because one week of delivering cameras already in stock is not enough of a service indicator to qualify a "verified" seller. Verified sellers have a history of delivering service before and after sales, and stand behind the product to resolve issues with the customer if something goes wrong. Time will tell...
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 03:38 PM
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I forgot to ask: the 80 minute runtime announced was measure at what quality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Standard settings. i.e. standard video data rate and 1080p with sound turned on.
I'll also add that I got slightly over 90 min. when my battery was new, and I thought I had set the 1080p mode to Super quality as well, but can't confirm it. But these inexpensive low C-rated cells can have a noticeable performance variance. I have two batteries that are already showing signs of age, one with less than 30 min. capacity now. It remains to be seen if this is the norm, or just a manufacturing variance. With the new metal CMOS module and final version of the case, there is now about another 5mm or so of available length that might be used by either a higher capacity or higher C-rated cell.

High temperatures cause lipos to age faster, so I don't expect they will have life spans as long as the #16.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 03:45 PM
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Standard settings. i.e. standard video data rate and 1080p with sound turned on.
As I discovered after several attempts, when using an 8GB SD card camera will shutdown with card full before battery power is exhausted.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 03:50 PM
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In the V212 0.32 video there was a little full time auto white shifting going on, but not too bad, the 1080 video right below it had a lot of white balance shifting.

Now the question is, what white balance setting were you using? I tend to like to lock my cameras into the correct (or closest) setting for the lighting so I would have set it for daylight, what does it do if you make a manual WB setting?
...
There are no white balance toggle settings... yet. But it's coming in a future major feature FW upgrade. And before anyone asks, I don't know when that will be available. It will also require more GUI programming... it is "weeks away", probably "many weeks away". When it's done, it will be announced here.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 04:14 PM
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As I discovered after several attempts, when using an 8GB SD card camera will shutdown with card full before battery power is exhausted.
Yup, the Mobius requires a 16GB card if you want to record as long as the battery lasts. I did most of my testing with 32GB cards so rarely ran into space problems.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 04:31 PM
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Rats, I was hoping that user set white balance was already there.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 05:22 PM
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Because one week of delivering cameras already in stock is not enough of a service indicator to qualify a "verified" seller. Verified sellers have a history of delivering service before and after sales, and stand behind the product to resolve issues with the customer if something goes wrong. Time will tell...
Tom is correct in the aspect that JooVuu.com have not fulfilled the developers requirement of 3 months selling their items. We have been selling longer than 1 week though, as evidenced on here, as well as before we advertised on here. We are currently at 2 months of selling their products. We have sold a tremendous amount of Mobius's so far and are continually having to put in more orders; and we are not that far behind what the developers have sold themselves. Whilst we would of course prefer to be verified but we do not mind currently, as the developers have been great with us and they have their policies regarding verified sellers in order to maintain trust and integrity within their products, which I have no problem adhering too. Hopefully we will be a verified seller in the next month or so.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 05:32 PM
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Will the #16 video out/power cable work with the mobius?
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 05:38 PM
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Will the #16 video out/power cable work with the mobius?
I'm not sure but JooVuu.com will be stocking the mobius tv-video out cable within a few days
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 05:46 PM
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Will the #16 video out/power cable work with the mobius?
No.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 06:03 PM
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Mine from JooVuu with rear LED and V0.32 turned up today, so that's pretty good service as far as I'm concerned. (and he's refunded shipping)

I know JooVuu came out the blue to Tom and the gang, but as JooVuu had pre-release versions direct from the developer and thus far seems to have delivered fair service I'm at a loss as to why they are not in the sellers list at the start of this thread.
Not only that but of the two verified sellers only one has them

The other thing I can't understand is why are none of the sellers packaging them with an SD card of a suitable size (16gb or 32gb) and all the cables like they do for the #16?

Have fun with your new cam and be sure to post up some vids for us
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 06:45 PM
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I'm not sure but JooVuu.com will be stocking the mobius tv-video out cable within a few days
Thats good news, i ordered my mobius from Joovuu and the service and support are great.

I recommend them.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 07:35 PM
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I'm not sure but JooVuu.com will be stocking the mobius tv-video out cable within a few days
PLEASE, stop with the vendor store promotion posts here. That's exactly the kind of posting I just asked not be made here. I've had complaints about too many joovuu.com store promotion posts already, which is why I had to post this protocol.

There are a number of other vendors who sell the Mobius who would like to promote their stores in this free venue with a large reader base, but the purpose of this thread is to discuss the camera's use, mainly as an aerial video tool, but with some allowance for other uses if the discussion revolves around the camera's abilities or problems. Promotion of vendor's stores is not permitted here, other than as described in the linked forum protocol (one post per week on special promotions, sales, etc.). One way or the other, excessive store promotion posts here will stop.
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 07:49 PM
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Not only that but of the two verified sellers only one has them

The other thing I can't understand is why are none of the sellers packaging them with an SD card of a suitable size (16gb or 32gb) and all the cables like they do for the #16?
...
The camera has only been released for sale for two days! The verified sellers did not take pre-orders or sell pre-release versions for good reason. Only one of the verified sellers has updated his web page, but the other can also supply them if you email them (this was mentioned in a prior post.)

You can order ANY of the accessories when you place your order. Many people don't want all the other stuff, like FPV video out cables if they don't fly FPV. And without all the extras, the price is lower. Simple as that!
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 10:54 PM
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Is there any videos showing the live video out from this camera?
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 05:09 AM
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FYI:
I didn't get that level of service from GoPro or Replay, JVC has been pretty quick to respond when I sent them questions regarding my Adixxion camera.
L
So true!
Thanks to everyone. The creators, the sellers, Tom etc.
If the quality of the cam can keep up with the videos if have seen, I am one very happy customer. 50euro for a cam in key chain format with almost gopro silver quality. What more could you ask for.?
Haven't been looking more forward to gadget for a long time....
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 05:11 AM
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 06:03 AM
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what are the odds of a v959 carrying this payload and performing well enough to get some decent video?
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 06:13 AM
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 06:26 AM
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I did not upload VideoOut to the link above ...
Sorry, I don't have the equipment readily availible to record analog video..

-Jan
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 06:39 AM
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Sorry about the mis-understanding,

But "Video Out" will give no indication of the quality of 1080 video.
It will look as good as any other Standard def TV image, so whats to see ?
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 06:57 AM
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...

1-Click on the video you want
2-Click on the 3 dots in the bottom right hand corner of the video and hit the download button.
Hilarious, VideoKing you're giving instructions for downloading files to the person who uploaded them!

Talk about completely missing the point!

To answer the OP (and maybe VK too)... no, no one has yet posted a video recording of live analogue video-out from this camera.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 07:24 AM
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Is there any videos showing the live video out from this camera?
+1. I would like to see it too.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 10:35 AM
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The reason some of us would like to see the video out is because it can be useful to use it for both fpv and recording like it is capable of, I don't understand why it is such a hard concept or question... Just want to see if it will indeed be suitable for using for double duty.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 01:36 PM
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maybe try this new https://mega.co.nz for raw samples

file100mb.bin (100.0 MB) (sorry don't have an actual test clip)
https://mega.co.nz/#!xg8g3QLR!ZYwWzH...RtSMj89G3a1crw

w/out registration, data will expire at some point; registration 50GB(1TB/month); payed 4TB
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 02:47 PM
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The reason some of us would like to see the video out is because it can be useful to use it for both fpv and recording like it is capable of, I don't understand why it is such a hard concept or question... Just want to see if it will indeed be suitable for using for double duty.
Are you wanting to just see things like the aspect ratios, letterboxing, etc., or the actual video quality. The latter can only be shown by routing the video-out to some sort of recording device that accepts composite video as an input (which I haven't had since I threw my old VCR in the trash can!). Or, the video can be displayed on a TV that accepts composite video input and a photo can be taken of the screen. That would show aspect ratios, letterboxing, etc., but not what the video quality might be on your display device. For that matter, it might not even show what the aspect ratios will look like on your display, as we found with the #16 camera video out, which looked different on some FPV goggles.

I might be able to capture some still images from a TV screen if that meets you needs.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 03:35 PM
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Are you wanting to just see things like the aspect ratios, letterboxing, etc., or the actual video quality. The latter can only be shown by routing the video-out to some sort of recording device that accepts composite video as an input (which I haven't had since I threw my old VCR in the trash can!). Or, the video can be displayed on a TV that accepts composite video input and a photo can be taken of the screen. That would show aspect ratios, letterboxing, etc., but not what the video quality might be on your display device. For that matter, it might not even show what the aspect ratios will look like on your display, as we found with the #16 camera video out, which looked different on some FPV goggles.

I might be able to capture some still images from a TV screen if that meets you needs.
A bit of both actually, would like to see the letter boxing but would like to see video quality, to see how/if is stilettos the ground and while in direct sunlight..
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 03:41 PM
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Eletoponline365 is listing the Mobius for $68... getchersef one!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mobius-Actio...item232c961f6a
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 06:01 PM
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When the camera is in 720p mode the 1280 x 720 image is sub-sampled from the center of the wider 1920x1080 frame image, so the video AOV is proportionally less, but so is the fisheye distortion...
I took a couple of hand held 1080 and 720 videos whilst being chauffeured home from a whisky tasting event this afternoon. As you might expect they are not the most stable but when you freeze them the contents viewable to the left and right sides of the frame are the same in both videos. From the details on Post #1 I was expecting the right and left sides of the 1080 image to have been cropped off in the 720 image.

I zoomed to 1/2 size on both to make sure they were different sizes on the screen and checked the frame rates were 30 and 60 etc.

Anyone else see the same thing?
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 07:58 PM
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I took a couple of hand held 1080 and 720 videos whilst being chauffeured home from a whisky tasting event this afternoon. As you might expect they are not the most stable but when you freeze them the contents viewable to the left and right sides of the frame are the same in both videos. From the details on Post #1 I was expecting the right and left sides of the 1080 image to have been cropped off in the 720 image.

I zoomed to 1/2 size on both to make sure they were different sizes on the screen and checked the frame rates were 30 and 60 etc.

Anyone else see the same thing?
Yes, mine seems to do the same!
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 08:11 PM
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I took a couple of hand held 1080 and 720 videos whilst being chauffeured home from a whisky tasting event this afternoon. As you might expect they are not the most stable but when you freeze them the contents viewable to the left and right sides of the frame are the same in both videos. From the details on Post #1 I was expecting the right and left sides of the 1080 image to have been cropped off in the 720 image.

I zoomed to 1/2 size on both to make sure they were different sizes on the screen and checked the frame rates were 30 and 60 etc.

Anyone else see the same thing?
This is bizarre! I'll have to look into this with the developer, because something has changed during the FW revisions we did not notice during beta testing.

Early on I took two samples of 1080p and 720p frame sizes to measure the AOV. They were VERY different AOV (see pic #1 and #2 below). I just did similar test videos with v0.32 FW and got the same results as you! (see pic #3 and #4 below).

I don't think the lens has changed... just the method of creating the 720p image from the sensor. To get the same AOV in a smaller frame size, they must down size the image, probably using a "pixel binning" technique (grabbing a small block of pixels from the full frame, and averaging them via an algorithm to form one pixel, repeating the process to get the smaller 1280 x 720 pixel frame. And that takes more time to capture a frame than just sub-sampling the actual smaller pixel array.

I just shot a new 720p-60fps test video to look at the frame rate. There's 60 fps, BUT it is now frame doubled!!! Every other frame is a duplicate! The earlier FW delivered 60 unique frames per second, so this is not a good change. I'll see if this was an intentional change to the FW or something that crept in unnoticed. I want it back the way it was!
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 08:28 PM
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Yes doubling the frames would be bad.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 08:40 PM
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Well that's disappointing... I wish they fix this really soon, because not having 60 fps is a very serious issue. Personally I plan on using 1080p more, but still, if the camera is marketed as having 720p/60, then it better do...
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 09:31 PM
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What? Doubled frames? No, thank you. I've chosen this one over SJ1000 for a lot of factors being 720p 60fps one of them. I do hope it gets fixed. I really want the 60 unique fps.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 10:03 PM
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720/60p is exactly why I bought it, doubled frames puts it back to #16 specs. for me so I do hope it is fixed.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 10:49 PM
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...Early on I took two samples of 1080p and 720p frame sizes to measure the AOV. They were VERY different AOV (see pic #1 and #2 below). I just did similar test videos with v0.32 FW and got the same results as you! (see pic #3 and #4 below)...
You are right, there is a big change in AOV between firmwares v0.26 and v0.29. From then on, there are small AOV changes in video and picture sizes between v0.29, v0.29iq, v0.30, and v0.32. And I did not notice anything either.
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Old Jun 29, 2013, 11:44 PM
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720p-60 fps fix will be forthcoming

OK, I think everyone can relax. This is the kind of thing that can happen with new video hardware that is also still being tweaked by the manufacturer.

Several FW revisions ago a new compiler code issued by the chip manufacturer was put into use for the ongoing FW development. Some default settings were different and were not picked up during the subsequent FW testing since the goal was better color balance, not re-checking things that were working before. The 720-60 mode is being fixed, so I'll post the updated FW for download as soon as it's available.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 03:25 AM
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1080p without fisheye distortion

Will there be a firmware version or maybe another lens that will make 1080p videos without fisheye distortion in the near future?
I don't like fisheye, but 1080p!
Ciao
Karl
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 05:56 AM
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Can I charge Mobius with this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1200-mah-ext...ht_3920wt_1162

Lens module for #16 work with Mobius or not?
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Yup, the Mobius requires a 16GB card if you want to record as long as the battery lasts. I did most of my testing with 32GB cards so rarely ran into space problems.
Hmmm what about if video out cable is plugged will it still shutdown..that would be a major setback for fpv.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by falconerider View Post
Will there be a firmware version or maybe another lens that will make 1080p videos without fisheye distortion in the near future?
I don't like fisheye, but 1080p!
Ciao
Karl
Check out the 808 #26. There are plenty of samples on youtube.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 09:49 AM
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Tom, or anyone who already has this new camera,

what kind of quality are you getting from it for still photos. I'm hoping the time laps feature will garner some print worthy aerial still shots.

Jim
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 10:19 AM
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New FW v0.34 - fixes V0.32 720p-60 fps anomaly

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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
OK, I think everyone can relax. This is the kind of thing that can happen with new video hardware that is also still being tweaked by the manufacturer.

Several FW revisions ago a new compiler code issued by the chip manufacturer was put into use for the ongoing FW development. Some default settings were different and were not picked up during the subsequent FW testing since the goal was better color balance, not re-checking things that were working before. The 720-60 mode is being fixed, so I'll post the updated FW for download as soon as it's available.
OK, I just put up FW v0.34 which restores the original AOV and unique 60 fps video. I also posted a Revision history file which I will keep update as new FW rolls out.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by falconerider View Post
Will there be a firmware version or maybe another lens that will make 1080p videos without fisheye distortion in the near future?
I don't like fisheye, but 1080p!
Ciao
Karl
It's not feasible, more than likely. Such a lens would cost much, much more than the camera itself, not to mention the size and weight penalty.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Apha01 View Post
Can I charge Mobius with this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1200-mah-ext...ht_3920wt_1162

Lens module for #16 work with Mobius or not?
No (wrong plug) and no (also different plug). Please read the first several posts... external power is discussed in detail, and the search function would have found the question on #16 lenses has been asked and answered already.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by lensman82 View Post
Check out the 808 #26. There are plenty of samples on youtube.
So what? This doesn't answer the question and it's also off topic. I have both cameras, they both have fisheye distortion, and it's inherent in any low-cost wide angle lens.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 10:41 AM
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I took a look back at the first few posts to see if it was listed, but didn't see it... I thought this camera used the common m12x0.5 thread for the lenses. If this is correct there are a large selection that might work available for Gopro HD and HD2, Ragecams sells them but as Tom said they are going to be nearly as much as the camera at $50 to over $100. These are just the lens, not the entire imagining module. I have a few from my old Gopro HD1 including the stock super wide from the camera that I may try when my camera arrives.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
It's not feasible, more than likely. Such a lens would cost much, much more than the camera itself, not to mention the size and weight penalty.
Tom,
what I mean: Will there be another lens for the mobius with a narrower AOV for 1080p videos without fisheye? Like lens A with the 808#16?
(Hope you understand my question, sorry for my English)
Karl
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 10:58 AM
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Cannot find on ebay power backup charger (on first pic) for $30.
eletoponline365 and digitalele889 dont have this one
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 11:26 AM
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The developer, rocks. Thanks for the firmware, Tom and the whole team.

FWIW, i've contacted the eBay seller about that mini helmet mont (different than the one we can find on Joovuu, for example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:RTQ:US:1123) and he/she said It doesn't work with the Mobius because the screw is too small.

Will have to order the other one... I don't like how it looks. It looks cheap and weak... I hope we get better mounting options. It is crucial for this camera to succeed. Look at the SJ1000 - great Action Cam but the mounting options are terrible. The mounter is just as important as the camera: if we can't properly mount it and protect it (water and dustproof case), than it is not really an Action Camera...

So far, I've found a good handlebar mounter on DX (10$) which I've already shared here, but I still need an helmet one and a good protective case.


EDIT: Given the fact that we can get great GoPro mounts from other Chinese stores at a good price, I strongly recommend that someone comes up with a simple piece that could attache to the camera to accept all kind of GoPro mounters. I think this is the piece:
Found here: http://dx.com/p/miniisw-universal-fa...ero-2-3-218079

Pleeeaaase
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PedroDank View Post
The mounter is just as important as the camera: if we can't properly mount it and protect it (water and dustproof case), than it is not really an Action Camera...
The beauty of a very small camera like Mobius is that you can easily "mount" it with duct tape (and/or velcro, rubber bands etc.) if you don't have better and more official mounting options...

With GoPro that wouldn't be so practical.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 12:43 PM
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Mea culpa

I have edited my post #36 regarding the firmware version. See: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=36
Now I shall go and eat some crow...

Sorry guys!

-Jan
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falconerider View Post
Tom,
what I mean: Will there be another lens for the mobius with a narrower AOV for 1080p videos without fisheye? Like lens A with the 808#16?
(Hope you understand my question, sorry for my English)
Karl
OH, OK... I misunderstood. I have no information on what other lenses the developer may be evaluating that might do what you want. I doubt such a lens would fit in the case, but might be able to protrude through the large aperture hole in the case.

We'll just have to wait to see what develops.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jhi View Post
I have edited my post #36 regarding the firmware version. See: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=36
Now I shall go and eat some crow...

Sorry guys!

-Jan
Thanks for this new info... all makes sense now! We all have oversight moments like this... I find crow doesn't taste too bad with lots barbecue sauce on it!
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by PedroDank View Post
...
FWIW, i've contacted the eBay seller about that mini helmet mont (different than the one we can find on Joovuu, for example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:RTQ:US:1123) and he/she said It doesn't work with the Mobius because the screw is too small.

Will have to order the other one... I don't like how it looks. It looks cheap and weak... I hope we get better mounting options. It is crucial for this camera to succeed. Look at the SJ1000 - great Action Cam but the mounting options are terrible. The mounter is just as important as the camera: if we can't properly mount it and protect it (water and dustproof case), than it is not really an Action Camera...

So far, I've found a good handlebar mounter on DX (10$) which I've already shared here, but I still need an helmet one and a good protective case.


EDIT: Given the fact that we can get great GoPro mounts from other Chinese stores at a good price, I strongly recommend that someone comes up with a simple piece that could attache to the camera to accept all kind of GoPro mounters.
...
FWIW, the helmet mount you linked that reportedly has a bolt that is "too small" to work with the Mobius mount seems to be a "Marketing 101" tactic (i.e. never admit your product will work with a competing device when you want a buyer to purchase your competing device). I happen to have the mount you linked, which shows it with the #26 camera mounted. Compare that photo with the one I attached below. Hmmm.... seems to work just fine. But having said that, I suspect the Mobius developer will have a helmet adapter as well as the ones currently offered.

Also, I'd be interested in what you find deficient about the Mobius handlebar mount that prompts you to look elsewhere? I've used the Mobius handlebar mount on my off-road bike and it seems to work just fine, though I'm no aerial daredevil, just a laid-back trail rider!
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