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Old Jun 03, 2013, 02:00 PM
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The Mobius ActionCam Support Thread (Posts #1-#8 mandatory reading!)

Thread Usage Protocol

This thread is part of a radio controlled model web site in a Forum dedicated to Aerial Video. As such, the content of this thread is intended to focus on the topic of the Mobius ActionCam and it's operation and capabilities for aerial video purposes.

That said, the Mobius is unique in it's small size, weight, capabilities, and price point, making it ideal for many other uses to capture action video. Therefore many persons interested in the Mobius for purposes other than aerial video are directed here for camera support by various vendors, and you are welcome here for the purpose of helping you with the camera's operation.

Issues with adapting the camera for other uses should be discussed in more appropriate forums, e.g.:
ALL users of this thread are requested (and expected) to adhere to the following posting protocol:
  • Posts must stay on topic and not divert the discussion to other uses for the Mobius or to other cameras. Problems with external devices that cannot use the camera's webcam output (e.g. Android devices) or video out signals (e.g. FPV goggles or other composite video display devices) are also considered off topic. If the camera cannot do anything differently with these outputs, there is no solution available from the camera hardware or software.
  • Video links posted here should relate to the RC aerial video topic area. Examples of off topic videos are:
    • Car driving recorder videos
    • Biking videos
    • Video of RC cars and boats
    • Routine ground scene videos to show off your new camera (I know you're excited, but...)


Exceptions: Any video that shows a specific problem with the camera's operation or a solution for those problems are desired and will help others regardless of how they might use their Mobius.
  • Suggestions for camera feature improvements should be well thought out as having broad appeal, and realisitc within the bounds of this camera's uniqueness for size, weight, and price point. Most of these will be firmware related, not physical redesign. The camera developer monitors this thread and has implemented many features from user input. But lets stay realisitic. Complaint posts about the Mobius not being able to meet your every need or do what much more expensive cameras can do are not wanted here.
  • Finally, this thread is a "self-help" thread! The four posts following this one contain much information that can answer many user questions. I try to keep these four posts updated with current information, firmware updates, and useful utility links that everyone can make use of. It is my intent and expectation that thread posters will "do their homework" and access these four posts before posting new questions. If you still have questions, the advanced thread search function should be used to help find posts that relate to your issue. This will not only help keep the thread from becoming bloated with redundant questions that have been asked and answered many times, it will also keep the thread leaner and more interesting to the target audience.
If this is your first time reading this thread, please read the next four posts now to familiarize yourself with this thread's structure and resources.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation!
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Old Jun 03, 2013, 02:00 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
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Mobius ActionCam Vendors and Specs

Mobius ActionCam Vendors and Specs

The Mobius, by the developer of the highly successful #16HD "808-style" keychain camera, is a logical progression to the more capable 1080p level of video hardware. The features that made the #16 such a hit, namely small, light, configurable, great video, and low cost are being extrapolated and expanded to match the capability of the new hardware. The firmware will take many months to mature and incorporate all the capabilities of the new hardware, but the developer is actively pursuing this goal while watching this thread for user feedback on issues that might need fixing.

Vendors

You are advised to only buy your Mobius from a developer-verified source. The following web stores have been verified by the developer as selling the real Mobius camera, replacement parts and accessories with a commitment to customer satisfaction, both before and after a sale, if any problems are found when the hardware is put into service and not caused by user abuse, crash damage, etc. If parts are not listed on their sites, use their web site email contact link to request what you need. They will respond promptly with information of how to buy them. They all use direct PayPal payment. The China eBay sellers work directly with the developer and will usually have the lowest delivered prices. The other re-sellers may offer quicker delivery depending on your location.

Direct Sellers:
China: eletoponline365; digitalele889
Re-sellers:
China: BangGood; HobbyKing (Hong Kong)

U.S.: novotm (MA); Massive RC (FL); SPYTEC (NY); ReadyMadeRC (OH); BangGood (US warehouse)

Canada: Great Hobbies (PE, ON, AB)

Europe:
Webbex (U.K.); JooVuu (U.K.); BangGood (UK warehouse); Mobius-Cam.com (NL); Revotech (CZ); Car Black Box (PL)
Prices can vary from one vendor to the other and depends on what is included in different accessory packages. The cost from the China direct seller eBay outlets will be nominally about $70 US with free shipping.

Non-verified sellers may be selling fake imitation cameras at seemingly bargain prices, and you should be wary of buying from them.

NOTE: Both users and vendors are expected to abide by this forum and thread vendor communication protocol.

Memory Cards

Class 4 memory cards from popular manufacturers provide the best compatibility with this camera and are recommended. Class 6 and Class 10 cards, at best, do NOTHING to improve the camera's video and cost more, and at worst, they may not work properly! ALL MEMORY CARDS should be formatted using the camera's internal formatting routine for best compatibility!
. If you are uncertain about what kind of memory card to buy, order one from the camera vendor when you place your order.

Case Design

The camera has a modern case design precision molded of rugged high-density plastic to house the upgraded CMOS imager, DSP chip, and larger battery. Three buttons (power, mode, and shutter) are provided to toggle various functions, with 4 LEDs for visible feedback on the cameras operation. The top of the case has two exposed metal heat sink surfaces protruding through the case heat dissipation from the DSP and memory chips. The case has a shallow notch extending around case upper and lower joint line. This enables the case to be securely slid into a mating base piece for a variety of mounting hardware options (more info below).


The inside of the case top and bottom has precision molded rib structures to accurately position and securely hold the CMOS/lens module.


This shows a size comparison of the Mobius with the current #16 camera in its current flat-bottom case and wide angle lens. The basic camera weighs approximately 39 grams (without lens cap) and measures nominally 61mm (L) x 35mm (W) x18mm (H).
.
When inserted into it's mounting base plate, the overall dimensions (without the mounting screw insert) are 63mm (L) x 38mm (W) x 22mm (H).

Circuit Board

The circuit board has a reset button and easy disconnects for the battery and CMOS ribbon cable. The charging and external communication port is a standard 5 pin mini-USB socket. PLEASE NOTE THIS USB POWER SUPPLY ALERT. Standard microSDHC cards up to 32GB are accepted for recording. Class 4 cards should work fine and are recommended. The CMOS imager and DSP chips used in the camera are confidential at this point at the developer's request. The stock 520 mAH lipo battery can power the camera for approximately 80-90 min.



Lens

The original lens, now being referred to as "Lens A" is a mid-AOV lens with some fisheye distortion in the 1080p frame size, but less than the wide angle D lens on the #16. When the camera is in 720p-60 fps mode the 1280 x 720 image is sub-sampled from the center of the wider 1920x1080 frame image, so the video FOV is proportionally less, but so is the fisheye distortion. In 720p-30fps mode, the camera keeps the wider FOV of the 1080p mode, but scales the imaged down to 720p frame size (detail loss is very minimal). Vignetting and focus drop off at the edges are negligible. I measured the actual FOV of the video frame width to be nominally 85 deg. at 1080p and 720p-30fps, and 46 deg. at 720p-60fps settings, and based on those, I estimate the AOV of the standard lens to be around 110 deg.

A wider AOV lens, referred to as "Lens B" is now available (details here), and more high quality/nominal cost lens alternatives are continually being sought. The CMOS module has a "standard" 12M x 0.5 thread, so it can accept other third party lenses if a user can find a suitable one.

The CMOS imager and its ribbon cable attach to the lens module via two machine screws, making it possible to replace just the CMOS imager if necessary. The lens module is made of light metal with a set screw to hold the threaded lens at the ideal focus point, yet allowing it to be easily released for focus adjustments if necessary. The metal module also acts as a heat sink for the CMOS imager.

Approximate Weight of Basic Components

Stock camera (inc. battery & memory card)..... 39 gms. (add 2 gms. for the wider angle lens)
Case with heat sink...................................... 12 gms.
Stock battery (520 mAh 603030)................... 10 gms.
Circuit board, lens module, & memory card..... 17 gms.
Mounting base plate without screw stud.......... 7 gms.
Mounting base plate with screw stud.............. 10 gms.


User Toggled Functions

Camera functions are an expanded version of the #16 functions. The development of functions and user settings for the camera will be ongoing following the initial release, all of which will work in the camera when updated FW is loaded. The initial release FW includes:

•Two user selectable video modes, toggled by the mode button after power up. Either mode can be set to record 1080p-30fps or 720p-60fps or 720p-30fps. The video format is .MOV with H.264 compression codec, and the camera can record sequential clips with a one sec. overlap, so there is no lost video.

•Three movie quality settings (Super, Standard, and Low), which will vary the recording bit rates suitable for the user-selected frame size and frame rate. The Super setting (called the "High" setting in the GUI) with 1080p-30 fps video gives an approximate average total bit rate around 18,000 kbps with a high detail and motion scene. The Low setting with 720p-30 fps video gives approximately 5,800 kbps on the low end.

•Five video recording cycle time settings will be 3, 5, 10, and 15 min. plus "Max", all of which will stop/save/continue. The Max setting will record until the 4GB files size limit is reached unless the memory card runs out of space or the battery power is removed. The actual Max recording time will vary dramatically accord to the users settings for frame size, frame rate, and movie quality. The 4GB file limit can be reached in less than 30 min. with 1080p-30 fps video set for Super quality.

•Loop Recording will continue recording when the card fills up by deleting the oldest clip on the card to make room. This mode requires either a 3 or 5 min. clip length setting to work. Pressing the mode button while a recording is in progress in this mode will tag the file as write protected when it is saved, so it won't be overwritten. The file can be manually deleted, though.
•Movie Flip (180 deg. rotation) will record a video right-side up when the camera must be mounted up-side down.

•Movie Sound allows turning off the sound and eliminating a sound track from a video file to save file space when no sound is wanted.

•Photo capture mode with frame sizes of 2304x1536, 1920x1080, or 1280x720 (no up conversion).

•Time Lapse photos with delays between images of .25*, .5*, 1, 2, 5, 10, 30 and 60 second intervals.
* Note: The settings below 1 sec. require a photo frame size of 1920x1080 or smaller, and they will not have a date stamp even if it is turned on.

•Recording LED toggle flashes the recording mode LED on the top and rear of the camera.

•Movie/photo time stamp toggle

•Power on button delay (to prevent premature activation while handling)

•Auto-record when power to the camera is applied (useful for car recorder use - no button presses needed.)

•Charging on/off toggle when plugged into a USB data port (useful for some external USB devices)

•TV out (PAL or NTSC), which includes a playback mode with audio.

•TV display ratio (4:3 or 16:9)

•GUI program for Windows OS for easy setting of the parameters as well as updating the firmware and the GUI program itself.
Mounting Options

The camera has many mounting options, starting with a flat base plate that slides onto the camera case's mid-line shallow groove.


Two studs on tabs that deflect as the camera is slid into place snap into holes in the camera case when it is fully inserted.


The camera is very solidly held in place on the base plate by the two lugs... maybe a bit too securely for some applications?


The lugs need to be lifted up by pushing on the rear of the camera case while holding the base plate into order to remove the camera.


The removal force can be greatly diminished to your preferences by shaving off a bit of the lug height as well as tapering the side of the lug to for a ramp. If you pursue this option, remove material in small increments and test the camera release force at every change.


The base plate can be mounted via wire ties or straps through slots in the bottom. The base plate also accepts a snug snap-in plug that has a standard 1/4-20 tripod thread.


Several heavy duty mounting options are available for mounting the camera to a variety of objects via the base plate tripod screw thread. Three of these are a flat surface adhesive pad mount, a bike handlebar mount (accommodates oversize bars), and a lever-actuated suction mount for smooth surfaces such as a car windshield. Each of these specific mounting options use an adjustable articulating ball piece that screws into the base plate, making very minute changes in alignment possible.


The optional helmet mount has both a slightly flexible adhesive pad plus a retaining strap for rugged use. The screw attachment point has only two rotation axes available for aiming the camera.


Another option is a mini-tripod bolt mount for use as a web cam or other use on any level surface.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jun 27, 2014 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Added Great Hobbies to verified reseller list
Old Jun 03, 2013, 02:01 PM
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Firmware and Camera Configuration Settings

Camera Configuration and Firmware Information

It is strongly recommended that users with Windows PCs always use the graphical user interface (GUI) program to change camera settings and update firmware.

This page has an overview of the current configuration setting information and download links for the instruction manual (user guide) and Windows GUI software authored by Isoprop.

This page has download links for Android mobile device applications authored by therau2000.

This page has links to two configuration setting tools for Mac PCs.

New firmware and user settings can be loaded into the camera manually as a last resort (see below), but it requires specific file editing and handling procedures as well as multiple button press sequences on the camera. It is easy for user errors to cause these updates to fail! Also, there are numerous camera settings, some of which conflict with each other if both are toggled on at the same time. The GUI program will not permit these conflicting settings to be set so will eliminate all of these user error possibilities, so please do yourself a favor and use them.


Optional Manual User Configuration Setting Procedure

If a GUI tool is not available for your computer or you would rather just edit the configuration text file manually, it's easy to do, just follow these steps exactly:

1. Download the camera's configuration file to the flash card in the camera (HOLD DOWN MODE BUTTON, THEN ALSO HOLD DOWN POWER BUTTON UNTIL THE RED LED BLINKS 3 TIMES).

2. Turn the camera on, connect it to your PC, and access the camera root directory when it goes into the "removable disk mode".

3. Open the "SYSCFG.TXT" config text file with a simple (ASCII) text editor (e.g. the familiar "Notepad" text editor for Windows users). The file will look similar to this:
Date time=[2013/06/28-21:33:34];date time setting,format yyyy/mm/dd hh:mm:ss

Video Mode 1 resolution=[0];Movie resolution setting,0:1080p,1:720p
Video Mode 1 Frame Rate=[2];Movie frame rate setting,1:60fps (only for 720p), 2:30fps
Video Mode 2 resolution=[1];Movie resolution setting,0:1080p,1:720p
Video Mode 2 Frame Rate=[1];Movie frame rate setting,1:60fps (only for 720p),2:30fps

Photo Mode Capture Size=[0];set photo size,0:2304x1536,1:1920x1080,2:1280x720
Set Time Lapse Shooting=[0],0:off,1:0.25s,2:0.5s,3:1s,4:2s,5:5s,6:10s,7:30s,8:60s

Movie cycle time=[2];movie cycle time,0:3 minutes,1:5 minutes,2:10 minutes,3:15 minutes,4:max to 4G byte,
Movie Loop Recording=[0];set loop recording on or off,0:off,1:on,
Time stamp=[1];set date/time stamp on or off,0:off,1:on,
Movie sound=[1];set movie sound,0:mute,1:on,
Movie Flip=[0];set movie rotate,0:off,1:on,
Movie quality=[1];set movie quality, set movie data rate,0:Super,1:Standard,2:Low,
Movie high dynamic range=[0];set movie high dynamic range,0:off,1:on,

Power on=[1];set system power on time,0:delay,1:fast
Power off=[1];set system auto power off time when system pending,0:off,1:30 seconds,2:1 minutes,3:2 minutes,
Auto Record=[0];set connect or disconnect with power to start or stop video recording automatically,,0:off,1:on,
LED=[1];set LED flicker when recording,0:off,1:on,
Charge from USB Host=[0]; when connecting with USB host, charge camera or not,0:on,1:off

TV out=[0];set Tv out,0:NTSC,1:PAL,
TV Display Ratio=[0];set display ratio,0:4*3,1:16*9

{TLCAM MOV:2013/06/25 v0.32}
{LDTLCAM,v001}
Note: Values used by the camera shown bolded in the square brackets. Functions shown may vary with firmware updates, but manual editing is similar. Text in curly brackets at the bottom show the firmware and boot loader versions in the camera.
4. Replace any number(s) in the square brackets with any valid alternate setting number, shown highlighted to the right of each function. For the date and time, don't delete the dash (-), slash (/), or colon (:) marks or add any spaces or invalid numbers. You can keep the camera's current date and time if you use a question mark (?) for each number, i.e. [????/??/??-??:??:??] will keep the camera's current date and time.
NOTE: Except for certain functions which cannot co-exist, invalid numbers or other characters in the square brackets has not shown to cause serious problems. The camera appears to ignore them or switch to default values.
5. Save the revised file back to the memory card root directory, but do not change the file name.

6. Upload the revised configuration back into the camera. The same key-press sequence used to download the configuration from the camera will also upload it to the camera.

7. When the LED turns off, you're done! The new configuration will be in the camera and the config file will be automatically deleted from the flash card. You may check the flash card to confirm this if you wish.


Firmware

Firmware updates will contain bug fixes, new or improved features, or both. You are advised to always update the firmware if you want your Mobius to give you all it can. You are strongly advise to ALWAYS use the GUI tool for all camera firmware changes (see above). The GUI will determine if your camera firmware is out of date, download the latest firmware if you agree, and install it for you, taking all the potential for user error out of it.

The firmware development and refinment is a continuing process, and the most recent OFFICIALLY RELEASED versions will be kept attached to this post as downloadable zip files. Any problems found with the Released Firmware should be reported to me via PM. Note: The different firmware will ALWAYS have the same name... FWTLCAM.BIN, which is necessary for the camera to identify it as firmware to be installed. When you un-zip the attached firmware archive file, the firmware FILE will be in a named FOLDER so you can tell at a glance which firmware file is in the folder. When preparing to install the firmware as detailed below, make sure to copy the firmware FILE (FWTLCAM.BIN) and NOT THE FOLDER itself to the memory card root directory. The camera will not find the firmware if it's in a folder. I keep old, obsolete firmware in case anyone needs a copy (PM me with your email address).

NOTE: BETA TEST firmware is created as part of the on-going development and is sometimes released to selected users for testing only. It is NOT officially released firmware and it may contain bugs, so is NOT intended for general distribution. .

The Mobius only uses MOV format firmware.

The most up-to-date firmware (and bootloader, if applicable) file is available for manual download at the bottom of this page.


Optional Manual Firmware Update Procedure

The following procedure is for manually updating your camera firmware. It is not necessary to do this if you can use the Windows GUI configuration tool (see above). It will determine if your camera firmware is out of date, download the latest firmware if you agree, and install it for you, taking all the potential for user error out of it. You are strongly advise to ALWAYS use the GUI tools for all camera firmware changes.

ALERT:
  • READ THE UPDATING INSTRUCTIONS FULLY BEFORE STARTING
  • DO NOT BEGIN UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND EACH STEP
  • DO NOT SKIP ANY STEPS
1. Download the firmware .zip archive file and un-zip it. Copy the actual firmware file (always named FWTLCAM.BIN as noted above) from it's identifying folder into the camera's flash card root directory (the one that opens when the camera connects as a removable drive). This can be done with the card in the camera connected to the computer as a Removable Drive, or externally in a card reader. But do NOT rename the file. If you do, the camera will not install it!

2. Disconnect the camera and turn it off.

3. Insert the flash card containing the new firmware file into the camera (if not already in the camera).

4. Press the Power button until the BLUE LED turns on and begins to flash. RELEASE THE POWER BUTTON AS SOON AS LED FLASHING BEGINS! If you keep pressing it longer, you may turn off the camera before the update process is done. DO NOT PRESS ANY BUTTONS WHILE THE INSTALLATION IS IN PROGRESS (about 20 sec. to complete)

5. To confirm the firmware is being loaded into the camera, the BLUE LED will continue to blink during the upload process.

6. When the FW installation is complete, the BLUE LED will turn off for about 2 sec. and the YELLOW LED will then turn on solid, indicating the FW file is has been automatically deleted from the memory card.

7. You're done! The camera will be in the normal start-up standby mode ready for use.


Firmware Download Site
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Last edited by Tom Frank; May 09, 2014 at 10:17 AM. Reason: add LED clarification in step 1 for extracting config file.
Old Jun 03, 2013, 02:01 PM
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FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQs) - under construction

Camera Operation Problems

Battery and CMOS/Lens Maintenance

1. Opening the case

The case has a top and bottom piece held together by two screws on the bottom front corners and two interlocking tabs/lugs on the back. Remove the two screws, lift the front of the case slightly, and push it towards the back (away from the lens) to remove the bottom piece and expose the circuit board.



There are three tiny screws securing the circuit board to the case top, but you will never need to remove these for normal maintenance.


2. Replacing the battery

The battery simply plugs into socket on the circuit board, and it has a key on the plug so it cannot be plugged in with wires reversed. The plug can be quite hard to remove, so a slight side-to-side rocking action with a thumb nail or NON-METALLIC tool in the gap between the plug and circuit board socket can help free it without exerting excessive force on the circuit board. Note the circuit board is long and narrow on that corner, and that portion is not secured to the case top when the bottom half is removed. Apply a little pressure with your thumb on the circuit board so it doesn't flex when removing the battery plug. NEVER PULL ON THE BATTERY WIRES to remove the plug! Plug in the new battery, re-position the cell and battery wires, and replace the case bottom when done.


3. Replacing the CMOS imager module

NOTE: The camera battery should be removed before doing this (see item 2., above)! The pictures referenced below incorrectly show the battery still connected!

The CMOS module is press fit into a ribbed securement structure on the case. Because the CMOS ribbon cable is very short and can be damaged easily, it's advisable to first slide the ribbon cable from it's socket before the module is extracted. The ribbon cable slides into a socket on the circuit board and is clamped in place by a hinged clamping tab.


The cable is released for removal by gently lifting up on the aft edge of the clamping tab with a thumb nail or NON-METALLIC tool, such as a toothpick.



Gently slide the ribbon cable out of the socket with a NON-METALLIC tool such as a toothpick.


Now the CMOS module can be extracted from the case, but it is a very tight fit and should be done carefully. I find the best method is to use a tool as a lever to just slightly lift one side of the module at the screw lug A strong (e.g. metallic) tool may be needed for this, and can be used without getting close to any circuitry if applied at the side of the module near the edge of the case. Once the edge of the module is lifted, the module can be easily removed with your fingers. Just be careful to not grab the ribbon cable.



Replacing a module is slightly different. First, note that your module has some metallic tape on the underside. Do not remove this tape because it's purpose is to conduct heat from the metal CMOS back plate to the metal module housing which then helps cool the CMOS imager. But do look to be sure the tape is aligned on the module and does not have any creases or folds that can keep the module from seating fully in the case.


Next, with the locking tab lifted, gently insert the ribbon cable into the circuit board connector, making sure it is fully inserted. It's a snug fit and needs to be inserted straight with maybe a slight side-to-side rocking motion. DO NOT force it. When in place, close the locking tab to secure the ribbon.


Now position the module over it's seat in the case, allowing the ribbon cable to bend naturally. DO NOT force a sharp bend in it. When in place, push the module into the case slot by pressing on the side lugs. DO NOT press on the ribbon cable area on top of the module. It's a very snug fit, and a slight rocking side-to-side rocking motion may be needed. Make sure the lens is centered in the case opening and replace the case bottom.


4. Refocusing or Replacing the Lens in the CMOS module

This is now an easy task. The threaded lens is secured in the module with a tiny set screw which requires a 1mm (I think) Allen hex wrench to loosen.


To refocus the lens, simply remove the case bottom, mark the initial position of the lens with a thin line of paint across the lens threads and module base (optional-for future reference only), then loosen the set screw until the lens can be rotated in the housing. When facing the front of the lens, turning it to the left will move it further away from the CMOS and move the prime focus closer to the camera. The reverse will do the opposite. The lens should turn easily once the set screw is loosened enough, but there are small notches in the lens front rim to aid in turning the lens if needed. There should be enough room in the case to make moderate focusing adjustments without having to remove the module or circuit board from the case. Focusing can be done in web cam mode while viewing the image on a monitor, or by trial and error still or video shots noting the lens position for each and comparing afterwards. Its been claimed that still images of the same scene will have the largest file size when the camera is in best focus, though I prefer a visual indicator and have not tried to confirm this. The standard lens has a large depth of field, and images should appear as sharp as the lens is capable of from about 2 ft. out to infinity when in good focus. When the lens is focused to your requirements, simply re-tighten the set screw and replace the case bottom.

To completely replace the lens, you will need to remove the module from the case (see item 3., above) to allow enough room to completely unscrew the lens from the module. NOTE: If the lens appears to "jam" and not unscrew easily, see this post for a possible reason and solution. Then replace the lens, reseat the module, and replace the case bottom.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jul 06, 2014 at 08:49 AM. Reason: Add to FAQ list
Old Jun 03, 2013, 02:01 PM
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Video Samples and Editing Tips

Video Samples

1. An excellent review of the Mobius camera by "Techmoan" can be viewed here, with excellent video samples that can be download here in their native quality direct from the camera.
2. Sample side-by-side video comparison outdoors in very low light with wide dynamic range (WDR) on and off.

Editing Issues

The Mobius video files are similar to those of it's predecessor, the #16 720p HD keychain camera. Though the higher resolution and data rate of the Mobius files will demand more from your PC hardware and resources, this post from the #16 support thread gives useful editing issues and solutions for those who are new to video editing and want simple (and free!) software to get started.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jul 06, 2014 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Added Editing Section
Old Jun 04, 2013, 10:32 AM
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mSetup - the Mobius ActionCam setup utility and User Guide

This is the original Mobius GUI which I created in co-operation with the developer and Tom. Click HERE to download.

The program is a native Windows application specifically written for the Windows operating system (XP and above) and does not require any 3rd party runtime system, for example Java or .NET, to be installed. The simple and extremely user-friendly program is fully plug-and-play and includes an integrated User Manual.

The software is also compatible with all plug-and-play versions of the Mobius' little sister, the very popular #16.

The software will also identify all unknown USB cameras and devices with a capacity of 64GB or less. So, if the GUI doesn't recognize your camera, you don't have a #16 or a Mobius ActionCam!

You can take a peek at the software even if you don't yet have the camera. You can click on all the buttons, but they will be greyed-out until a supported camera is connected. The integrated help may also be useful.

Remember that you can resize the dialog by dragging the gripper at the bottom right corner if you prefer a smaller image. The dialog fonts will automatically be resized to fit.

The latest GUI software configuration tool together with the latest instruction manual (User Guide) may be downloaded by clicking on the link above or on one of the images below.

I strongly recommend that you enable automatic program and firmware updates so you always benefit from the latest available tools. This is specially worthwhile during the first few weeks after the initial release.

Here are some screenshots of the GUI (Graphical User Interface)








... you can set your own parameters and download new versions and format the camera's card


...and of course you can set your own colors for the program


...and lots of useful information too
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Last edited by Isoprop; Dec 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM.
Old Jun 04, 2013, 10:32 AM
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The definite Guide to Power connectors, charging, and other power related questions

Mobius ActionCam

This guide is designed as a reference for the most common power-related questions and is thus fairly long. However, I hope you will find the answer to your question.

This post will be kept up to date.

Description
The Mobius ActionCam will run for about 80 minutes from a new fully charged internal battery. Recording in cold weather will drastically reduce the recording time.
Since you can't physically turn the battery off, the battery will always drain in order to keep the clock running. I don't know how long it will take to completely drain the battery, but I would expect a year, most probably much longer.

The camera can be configured either manually by editing an ASCII text file or much more conveniently by using the mSetup program (see post #6).
Recording without sound will give slightly longer recording times. Likewise, recording with a low video data rate will slightly increase the recording times. The recording indicator (flashing LED while recording) has no noticeable effect on the recording times. The recording indicator can be turned on or off in the configuration utility / text file.
The camera always records "clips" of a given length. The clip lengths can be set in the configuration utility / text file (see above). If the "Max." value is set, the camera will record clips with a length of 4GB. After the camera has written a clip, it will automatically create and record a new clip. This procedure will be repeated until the battery reaches a given threshold (runs out of power) or the flash card is full. If the camera is configured for loop recording, the oldest clips will be overwritten and recording will continue until there is no more internal or external power. There will be a 1 second overlap of two consecutive clips. The camera supports SD/SDXC cards formatted in FAT32 or exFAT and supports cards up to at least 128GB, most likely up to the exFAT limit of 512 terabytes.

Internal battery
The internal battery is a lithium polymer cell (LIPO), which, when fully charged, has a capacity of 4.2V. The camera will turn off when the battery voltage reaches approx. 3.5V.
The battery is user replaceable and comes with a tiny 2-pin connector. Since a connected external USB power supply will always supply more power than the camera functions require, the internal LIPO will be charged even when using the camera in Disk Mode, Webcam Mode, or Recording.
Battery protection circuitry is built into the camera. For this reason you should not replace the internal battery with another type of battery (for example Li-Ion). It is, however, possible to connect an external LIPO 1S battery in place of the internal battery but it should be recharged using an external charger.
The built-in charger circuitry is designed to charge a 520mAh LIPO (603030). A depleted battery will take between 2 and 2.5 hours to fully charge with the camera turned off. The green LED will be extinguished when the battery is fully charged. It is safe to assume the battery is fully charged after 2.5 hours even if the green LED is still lit.
You should never connect a second battery in series. Doing so will destroy your camera because the voltage is the sum of all the battery volts.
You should also not connect batteries in parallel unless they have been properly "balanced" by an external charger. If the cells are not at the same state of charge, the higher charged cell(s) will try to charge the lower charged cell(s) with no current limit. This could damage the cells and cause dangerous overheating of cells and wiring.
If you replace the internal battery with another source of power (battery, charger, etc.) the supplied voltage must not exceed 4.2V (5V is not permitted on the battery connector). Doing so may initially work but will over-stress other components and will most likely lead to premature camera failure. If you must connect a 5V supply to the battery connector, then use a small diode (e.g. 1N4001) wired in series in the positive line. This will drop the voltage by about 0.7V. You obviously have to connect the diode correctly or no current will flow!

Using an external single cell LIPO in place of the internal battery
Some users my prefer to use a larger single cell LIPO in place of the standard one. This is possible so long the internal battery is never connected at the same time. You should note, however, that charging a larger battery using the Mobius' charging circuitry will take a very long time. Also remember that every time you disconnect the battery from the board, even very, very briefly, the internal clock will be reset.

The USB cable
A standard mini USB cable has +5V connected to pin #1 of the camera's USB socket and -V (ground / earth) connected to pin #5 of the camera's mini USB socket.
On a standard mini USB plug the two center wires (Pin #2 and Pin #3) are the data lines and are only used when the camera is connected to a computer. They are not used when the camera is connected to an external power source such as car battery charger, external wall charger (mains charger), external USB power pack etc.
The camera "tests" the data lines as well as pin #4 to determine the connection type.
The camera can be operated normally using external USB power with the internal battery disconnected.
Pin #4, which is sometimes called Pin x, will switch the camera into AV-out mode (TV-Out) when connected to ground. When in AV-out mode, pin #2 carries the composite video-out signal. In addition, pin #3 carries the audio-out signal when the camera is in playback mode. When switched into AV-out mode by connecting pin #4 to ground (see above), there will be a composite video signal present on pin #2 as soon as the camera is turned on. Auto-power-off will automatically be disabled.
A word of caution for #11 owners: If you use the #11 "special" cable on your Mobius ActionCam you will destroy it!

The table below shows all the possible cable connections. In practice you will only need max. 2 different cables. The Mobius is normally sold with a universal cable harness.





Charging only, using a standard USB charger
When charging, the green LED will be on.
When fully charged, the green LED will be off.
The camera can be charged by any standard *USB source. This includes:
• USB mains adapters (wall adapters), e.g. mobile phone chargers, navigation chargers, USB chargers, etc.
• USB standard car battery chargers.
• USB backup batteries designed to power/charge mobile phones, navigation devices, etc.
• USB computer connection.
►Only use quality chargers capable of supplying 1000mA (1A) and a stable voltage of at least 5V. Low quality chargers may not be able to supply enough current and can lead to premature battery failure or, in the worst case, even destroy the camera.
* Not all USB devices can supply enough current to charge the internal battery. Most mobile phones etc. will NOT be able to charge the battery.

Charging only, using a PC
When connected to a PC with an SD card inserted, the camera will be connected as an external drive. The battery will be charged.
If you only want to charge the battery, briefly press the Power button to turn the camera off. It is advisable to "safely disconnect" the drive before doing this (method varies depending on your operating system).

Simultaneous Charging and Recording using standard USB cables/adapters
The cable can be connected to any USB power source as long as the power source can supply 5 Volts under load. Note: Some USB hubs do not supply enough current. If the USB hub can't supply a nominal voltage under load, the camera will run on the internal battery which will be flat before the battery has a chance to charge!
• When powering from the computer, the recording must be started before connecting the USB.
• When powering from an external USB power source, the cable can be connected at any time, e.g. when the camera is turned off, before starting the recording, during the recording.
►Only use quality chargers capable of supplying 1000mA (1A) and a stable voltage of at least 5V. Low quality chargers may not be able to supply enough current and can lead to premature battery failure or, in the worst case, even destroy the camera.
►The battery or charger must only use the +5V and Ground wires. Some batteries/chargers also use the data wires. In this case the camera will think the power source is a computer - i.e. you will never be able to record more than one clip! Cut the two data wires (usually white and blue or green) and the battery/charger will work as expected.

Using external power it is possible to record about 4.5 hours of continuous video (many clips created automatically) using a 32GB micro SD card or about 8.5 hours using a 64GB micro SDXC card or about 17 hours using a 128GB micro SDXC card. These are average values using standard settings with 1080p30.

I highly recommend the Just Mobile Gum Pro PP-08, but any other USB high power external battery power packs will also work.

Technical
• When the camera is turned off, the RTC and processor draw about 15μA.
• When the camera is turned on, but in standby mode, the camera consumes about 300mA.
• When the camera is recording, the camera draws between 350mA and 400mA.
• In order to protect the battery, the camera will stop recording and turn off when the voltage falls below approx. 3.5V.

Haku made the following measurements in post #1502:
No battery connected
• Standby mode: 225mA @ 4.97v
• Standby mode with AV-Out enabled: 265mA @ 4.97v
• Recording 1080p: 305mA @ 4.97v
• Recording 1080p with AV-OUT enabled: 330mA @ 4.96v
Battery connected
• Battery being charged from flat, powered off: 186mA @ 4.97v
• Battery being charged from flat, recording 1080p: average 505mA @ 4.95v

Using the camera with only external USB power (internal battery disconnected)
The camera can be used without a battery connected to the internal connector on the board. Remember that the RTC (Real Time Clock) will be reset every time the external USB power is removed.
• The camera requires an absolute minimum of 4.18V to operate correctly. This value may vary with the type of card used. I would think 4.3V would be a safer figure.
• It is possible to use a supercapacitor in place of the internal battery. This will keep the RTC running for up to 10 days. It is not possible to use the supercapacitor to power the camera. Installing a supercapacitor requires the camera to be powered by external USB power.

A word of WARNING
External power should be a nominal 5V. Fractionally higher voltages (such as from a fully charged 4 cell NiMH battery pack) can be tolerated without undue stress of the camera components

RC electric plane models - Warning
It is not recommended to plug the camera into a spare channel on the receiver. This may work, but it may also cause complete shutdown of the external electronics. If the voltage supplied to the camera's USB port is in excess of 5V (±5%) there is also the risk of over stressing the camera's circuitry.
When recording, the camera draws as much power as a mini servo... and a bit higher when also outputting composite video for FPV. If the receiver is being powered by a separate battery, then the solution may work as long as the battery can handle the extra current. If the receiver is being powered by a linear BEC circuit on the motor ESC, adding the camera to that circuit may overload it and cause it to go into thermal shutdown, which in that case would mean total loss of control and a crash scenario!
If you must use a spare channel on the receiver, the complete electrical circuit needs to be taken into account and no components should become warmer than usual.

External USB battery packs
You cannot use a battery box with only 3 AAA / 3 AA batteries unless it incorporates step-up electronics to output 5V.
3 Batteries can only supply about 3.6V, but the camera requires a minimum of approx. 4.7V constant voltage. It will not charge or record when the voltage falls below approx. 4.3V.

Commercial external USB battery powered chargers
There are many different external USB battery power packs available. Mobius sellers may also stock them.
The most reliable battery packs are those which don't need any cable adapters. A few examples follow.

This is a typical external USB battery pack which can be found on eBay for about $30.
It has enough power for the camera to record video to almost completely fill a 32GB card.


This one is expensive, but by far the best. Costs more than $45. Can also be found on eBay. A real power horse!
Note: The cable supplied will NOT work for charging and recording at the same time. You must make your own 2-wire USB cable or simply cut the two data wires.


Car Charger (optional)
The optional car charger converts 12V DC into 5V DC. The center pin is the +5V and one of the connectors on the side is Ground (Earth). Any standard USB cable can be used together with the car charger.
If the car charger electronics are used with or without the casing to power the camera from a different 12V power source (external 3S lipo packs, for example), then the circuit will work well, but is probably too large to be practical.
Any 12V - 15V DC sources which need to be converted to 5V must go thru the car charger electronics (or similar regulator). You must NEVER bypass these electronics or apply 12V directly to the camera - doing so will destroy the camera.


DIY 3S LiPo Voltage Converter
bouzx6r has posted a simple method of converting a cheap car battery charger (see above picture) into a 3S LiPo-to-5V voltage converter. His idea may not be as small and compact as commercially available devices, but it's most probably just as good or even better. Click here for the original link with pictures.
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Last edited by Isoprop; May 30, 2014 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Added info about 128GB cards, added info on supercapacitor
Old Jun 04, 2013, 08:05 PM
The Android Developer
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Mar 2012
408 Posts
Android apps for #16/Mobius ActionCam

Android apps for #16/Mobius ActionCam

All Android apps were developed in cooperation with Elijah, the developer of Mobius ActionCam and the legendary 808 #16 camera.

Posting questions or support requests in this thread:
OK: when a large number of Users are affected; these posts will be answered here.
Not OK: posts of a specific nature; these posts will not be answered here.
App support:
  • Before installing any app, please install and run app OTG Status; it will check that your phone/tablet has the hardware capability to run the apps and even guide you to install apps when all conditions are met.
  • Please remember to refresh Android Support Page as it is updated frequently.
  • All apps now have built-in Help that should handle 99% of all issues; if you still have problems after going through the apps built-in Help and support page, send an email to therau2000@videotron.ca and make sure to specify:
  1. your full name;
  2. your location (country);
  3. phone/tablet make and model;
  4. Android version;
  5. app(s) installed and version(s);
  6. clear description of problem, including screen snapshot(s) as required.
Notes:
  1. Although PM is not disabled, please do not use PM because I rarely check messages.
  2. If you have questions or suggestions, please send an email.
Support page disclaimer:
  • All apps are available exclusively in Play Store.
  • Support requests for BOGUS apps will not be answered.
  • Support requests for unsupported cameras will not be answered.
  • All apps are offered as is, without any warranty of any kind.
  • Play Store app distribution does not necessarily cover all countries.
  • All apps are supported only in countries where they are legally distributed by Play Store.
  • Any or all apps may be discontinued at any time without prior notice.
  • App distribution may be altered, suspended, resumed, or terminated without prior notice.
See Play Store for available app names and their descriptions. Configuration and WebCam apps are now identical for #16 and Mobius ActionCam.
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Last edited by therau2000; Jun 25, 2014 at 06:34 AM.
Old Jun 26, 2013, 09:57 PM
Nakelp
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Sub
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Latest blog entry: New (old) Disco gimbal
Old Jun 26, 2013, 10:12 PM
Gravity - It's the law
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subscribe

Heck, if Jack subbed you know I can't be far behind,

subscribed

Yabba
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Last edited by Yabba; Jun 26, 2013 at 10:12 PM. Reason: darn it NakelP You beat me
Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:36 AM
FPV in Hawaii
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United States, HI, Kailua
Joined Feb 2012
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My first time on the first page of a massive thread. Congratulations in advance on hitting 10,000 posts!

I hope the WDR makes this a suitable FPV cam replacement. At least better than the #16 was in that regard.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:41 AM
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Camera extension cable

Do you sell an extension cable for the camera?
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:49 AM
Inciting Riots
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It is possible to subscribe to a thread without actually having to post, at the top of the thread click on the thread tools button and select subscribe. I expect Tom will come through and delete a few of these posts as they really serve no purpose to the subject (including this post).
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 01:19 AM
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when, where to buy and how much ?
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeByDocKy View Post
when, where to buy and how much ?
You'll need to give the sellers a bit of time to set up their sites! The Mobius is available NOW.
The two official sellers in China are listed in post #2 but they don't yet list the Mobius. If you're really in a hurry, email them for an offer.
JooVuu should also have these cameras in stock but are not yet officially listed in post #2. JooVuu is based in the UK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatotherguy View Post
Do you sell an extension cable for the camera?
There are no extension cables available yet. Before you ask, No, you can't use the extension cables designed for the #16. The Mobius extension cable would have to be two wires wider than the cables used in all the 720p keychains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by village_idiot View Post
It is possible to subscribe to a thread without actually having to post, at the top of the thread click on the thread tools button and select subscribe. I expect Tom will come through and delete a few of these posts as they really serve no purpose to the subject (including this post).
Unfortunately, there's no possibility for the thread owner to delete "useless" posts, so it's best not to post in the first place! BUT, I can well understand everyone's excitement
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 01:50 AM
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Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

I'm here.


mnem
Someone has to be.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:24 AM
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Joovuu has 13 on stock, final version.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:44 AM
Must not buy more planes!
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USA, KS, Wichita
Joined Jul 2010
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I just dropped by the #16 thread for the first time in ages and saw this like.

60FPS? Me likey!!!!
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:09 AM
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where are the raw samples with the final firmware?
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:20 AM
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Romania, Europe
Joined Aug 2009
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Ebay : 95usd +33 usd shipping..........too expensive for my taste...........I own a RD32II........The only reason for buying a Mobius was the price.........until now.......
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serjuro View Post
Ebay : 95usd +33 usd shipping..........too expensive for my taste...........I own a RD32II........The only reason for buying a Mobius was the price.........until now.......
I don't know where you found those prices, but the Mobius will sell for approx. $70, I believe shipping included, from China. Local prices will obviously be a bit higher, but you will receive faster shipping. Anything in the $95 range is absurd, unless there are a whole lot of accessories and a large card included.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:34 AM
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For those like me that can't wait any longer I have just received a reply from Mandy at eletoponline365 (one of the preferred sellers) read below......


Dear friend,

Thanks for your message. We are making the listing, you can kindly order it on ebay later. Or if you agree, we can do business through PayPal. USD68.99 for standard package. There are also some mount for the camera, USD4.5 for car suction cup mount, USD4.7 for car mount with tape, bike mount is USD4.9

Looking forward to your reply.

Regards,
Mandy

I'm off to order.....Yipee!
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Last edited by 101airbourne; Jun 27, 2013 at 05:06 AM.
Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lensman82 View Post
where are the raw samples with the final firmware?
The final firmware version has only been available for a couple of days, and only very few people have had access to it. The tests have also been very specific, and I don't think the weather hasn't been perfect at any of the testing sites. You'll have to wait for raw video samples
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:55 AM
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Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
I don't know where you found those prices, but the Mobius will sell for approx. $70, I believe shipping included, from China. Local prices will obviously be a bit higher, but you will receive faster shipping. Anything in the $95 range is absurd, unless there are a whole lot of accessories and a large card included.
70$ make sense, and it will make the king of 1080p for RC video.

eletoponline and 101airbourne ... seems to confirm this 70$ price level.

Considering that #26 is for sale in eBay since ages at 99$ ... and earlier version of Mobius have been sold for much more then 70$ ... then 95$ is/was not looking so absurd.

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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
The final firmware version has only been available for a couple of days, and only very few people have had access to it. The tests have also been very specific, and I don't think the weather hasn't been perfect at any of the testing sites. You'll have to wait for raw video samples
Perfect weather is not important. Actually low light samples would be great as I've heard reports the Mobius is noisy compared to the 808 #26.

BTW, the cam is available now from a verified seller for 70 USD:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mobius-Actio...item232c961f6a
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:07 AM
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Joined Nov 2000
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Excellent news - ordered mine from eletoponline365 (who I've always had great service from) ... marked as dispatched within 7 minutes
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:09 AM
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I got the second one!
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:12 AM
Registered User
Austria
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Glover View Post
Excellent news - ordered mine from eletoponline365 (who I've always had great service from) ... marked as dispatched within 7 minutes
Got one too ...

I think I may have too many HD cams now
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lensman82 View Post
Perfect weather is not important. Actually low light samples would be great as I've heard reports the Mobius is noisy compared to the 808 #26.....
I've never heard that rumor, but I don't have a #26 to compare.
The Mobius has a much larger lens which I would think is better for low-light conditions.

A 1-to-1 comparison of the two cameras would be much better than rumors!

Remember the Mobius has only been released today, whereas the #26 has been available for a few months. I'm sure any reported issues will be promptly corrected. Many other features are also planned. As it stands, the Mobius already has many more parameters than the #26 and it's really easy to operate.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:29 AM
Registered User
United Kingdom, England, Kent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeByDocKy View Post
when, where to buy and how much ?
Did you even get as far as reading the second of Toms FAQ posts. ???
No guess not

China
eletoponline365

digitalele889

UK
http://joovuu.com/store/index.php?id...roller=product
http://www.webbex.net/web/shop/viewi...d=17&groupid=0
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:40 AM
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Joined Apr 2013
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Turned out it wasn't even "a couple of days"
When will I be able to get the helmet mount? Also, when will there be a waterproof+dustproof case?
Wanted to buy the camera + helmet mount to save a few $, but it may not be worth the wait. Going to order the mobius right now.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:53 AM
ma:re
Joined Nov 2012
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USB Connector on the backside and not on the side! - THANK the LORD!
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:55 AM
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I just ordered mine from eletoponline365... I was the 8th to buy from him.

I will have to buy the bike mount too when it comes available.

Now I just have to wait up to 3 weeks. Oh, well.

By the way, you would imagine that the price of the #16 cam might come down now? Not to mention #26 cam... I mean, who would buy that cam for that price now that Mobius is available. Unless you don't know any better.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 06:18 AM
Step 1: Tear it apart
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United States, FL, Melbourne
Joined Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fintastic View Post
I just ordered mine from eletoponline365... I was the 8th to buy from him.

I will have to buy the bike mount too when it comes available.

Now I just have to wait up to 3 weeks. Oh, well.

By the way, you would imagine that the price of the #16 cam might come down now? Not to mention #26 cam... I mean, who would buy that cam for that price now that Mobius is available. Unless you don't know any better.
Being that the Mobius is very heavy the 808#16 still has plenty of appeal. Micro quadcopters (actually micro anything) can barely handle a stripped down #16 camera. Smaller and lighter is better for some applications. I'm thinking we may be able to carry the Mobius depending on our bulk quantity pricing.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fintastic View Post
I just ordered mine from eletoponline365... I was the 8th to buy from him.

I will have to buy the bike mount too when it comes available.

Now I just have to wait up to 3 weeks. Oh, well.

By the way, you would imagine that the price of the #16 cam might come down now? Not to mention #26 cam... I mean, who would buy that cam for that price now that Mobius is available. Unless you don't know any better.
You should have asked the seller about the bike mount! It's most likely available even though it isn't listed yet.

I'm sure the #16 will remain very popular. It's an excellent camera if weight and size is important. It'll most likely remain the best 720p camera for a long time to come.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 06:30 AM
jhi
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Norway
Joined Jun 2009
173 Posts
Mobius Video

My first video with the latest FW - v0.32.

EDIT
This is fw0.26!

I most likely made a mistake that morning when I manually updated the fw - selecting the wrong file on my computer. Later that day the setup program was updated and I probably let it update the camera fw with the newest version already downloaded in the morning. The evidence is overwhelming - it wasn't the v0.32 fw, must have been v0.26 - the correct 720p-60fps clip and the azur color gives it away. Sorry for misleading you!
.
Link to Vimeo
Test - New Mobius HD Cam. (1 min 38 sec)

Sorry, I am not a Vimeo Plus member, and it looks like Vimeo down converts the 1080p upload to 720p.
I may become a Plus member later, in the meantime I shall try to upload to YouTube in 1080p..

Link to YouTube..
270613 REC 0015 crop1 (1 min 38 sec)

.
...enjoy!



OK - one more clip - I'll stop now . Shot at the same time as above, but from a little different location. I think the sky colors are definitely better here.. Please watch in HD - 1080p.
.
270613 REC 0017 crop1 (2 min 21 sec)



-Jan
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Last edited by jhi; Jun 30, 2013 at 11:46 AM. Reason: ..added clip. (PS. I hope I am not misrepresenting the camera here by possibly messing with the FW)
Old Jun 27, 2013, 06:32 AM
Inciting Riots
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They must be working late, mine just got marked as shipped so someone just printed a shipping label.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 06:39 AM
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It's like a feeding frenzy at the moment!!!
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 06:45 AM
Camera Reseller.
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Hey everyone,
To celebrate the Mobius being released we from today until Sunday (23:59 GMT) we are offering free shipping on the Mobius and accessories, bike mount, car mount, and the helmet mount (this will be in stock shortly and if pre-ordered before the end time free shipping will still apply). So if you want to receive your item quickly and with free shipping go to www.JooVuu.com and use the following code:

freemobiusshipping

Any questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Kind regards,

Dan
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 06:53 AM
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I asked already in the previous thread, but I didn't got any suitable answer. Will there be in the future to use 720@60p mode with same angle of view as in 1080p mode? It means no sampling from the centre of the CMOS, but from cells across all the surface. Is it even possible with used module and DSP?

I would be a great pity not to have 60p footage with wide view angle on a cemera which calls itself "action".
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
My first video with the latest FW - v0.32.
.
Link to Vimeo https://vimeo.com/69230564
Thanks. The azure sky problem doesn't seem to be fixed. I wonder why we had to wait so long. What did actually change between firmware 0.25 and 0.32?
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JooVuu View Post
Hey everyone,
To celebrate the Mobius being released we from today until Sunday (23:59 GMT) we are offering free shipping on the Mobius and accessories, bike mount, car mount, and the helmet mount (this will be in stock shortly and if pre-ordered before the end time free shipping will still apply). So if you want to receive your item quickly and with free shipping go to www.JooVuu.com and use the following code:

freemobiusshipping

Any questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Kind regards,

Dan
How does this apply to us that already have ordered one of these? I ordered mine about an hour ago and have already paid for the camera and shipping
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by lensman82 View Post
Thanks. The azure sky problem doesn't seem to be fixed. I wonder why we had to wait so long. What did actually change between firmware 0.25 and 0.32?
I was wondering too! IMO, the firmware is not v0.32 but rather v0.27 or earlier.

The latest firmware does not show that azure colored sky.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 07:26 AM
jhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
I was wondering too! IMO, the firmware is not v0.32 but rather v0.27 or earlier.

The latest firmware does not show that azure colored sky.
I had the same feeling about the azure colored sky..
PS. This is the prerelease camera!

My settings:
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 07:39 AM
not running for the exercise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
I had the same feeling about the azure colored sky..
PS. This is the prerelease camera!

My settings:
Does turning on WDR improve the sky? Therau2000's video of better coloured sky was using WDR:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post25313087

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post25313867
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JooVuu View Post
Hey everyone,
To celebrate the Mobius being released we from today until Sunday (23:59 GMT) we are offering free shipping on the Mobius and accessories, bike mount, car mount, and the helmet mount (this will be in stock shortly and if pre-ordered before the end time free shipping will still apply). So if you want to receive your item quickly and with free shipping go to www.JooVuu.com and use the following code:

freemobiusshipping

Any questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Kind regards,

Dan
Will you make any offer for those of us who already preordered it?

Thanks
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
I had the same feeling about the azure colored sky..
PS. This is the prerelease camera!

My settings:
It doesn't matter if your camera is pre-release or not.
On some of the tests I made I did notice the sky showing a slightly incorrect blue color in one or two pictures when the sun was just out of the picture, so the lighting does make a big difference. The majority of material I've seen for v0.32 produced a very natural blue sky.
It would be most probably be helpful for the developer if you could could take the same picture with both firmware versions. If you have a second card you can prepare the card by copying the firmware to it and then swap cards and wait about 40 seconds while the firmware updates.

Tom and I tested with WDR off, which is the default setting.

Parts of your sky is definitely the wrong color, IMO.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 08:05 AM
Chop it, cut it, bash it
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United States, CA, La Cañada Flintridge
Joined Jul 2011
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So this is almost double the price of a #16 camera. I'll wait until all the bugs get worked out. Can't justify the price and will stick with what I have for now.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 08:38 AM
jhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
It doesn't matter if your camera is pre-release or not.
On some of the tests I made I did notice the sky showing a slightly incorrect blue color in one or two pictures when the sun was just out of the picture, so the lighting does make a big difference. The majority of material I've seen for v0.32 produced a very natural blue sky.
It would be most probably be helpful for the developer if you could could take the same picture with both firmware versions. If you have a second card you can prepare the card by copying the firmware to it and then swap cards and wait about 40 seconds while the firmware updates.

Tom and I tested with WDR off, which is the default setting.

Parts of your sky is definitely the wrong color, IMO.
I uploaded a new video to YouTube..
There are 3 cuts - the first is made with the same fw I used earlier today at the beach (v0.32 downloaded this morning and installed manually - could not install latest fw from mSetup.exe), next is v0.26 from previous download, the last I downloaded again a few minutes ago and copied back to card and installed manually. In the mean time I noticed a new program update, and now it is possible to install latest fw from mSetup.
Hope this helps.
test 32 26 32 (0 min 20 sec)


-Jan
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Last edited by jhi; Jun 27, 2013 at 10:02 AM.
Old Jun 27, 2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
I uploaded a new video to YouTube..
There are 3 cuts - the first is made with the same fw I used earlier today at the beach (v0.32 downloaded this morning and installed manually (could not install latest fw from mSetup.exe), next is v0.26 from previous download, the last I downloaded again a few minutes ago and copied back to card and installed manually. In the mean time I noticed a new program update, and now it is possible to install latest fw from mSetup.
Hope this helps.
......
-Jan
The structure of the firmware file was modified, so that's the reason you couldn't use the software to install the firmware. As you noticed, that's been corrected.

Your new video is exactly as I expected. The first and last clips show the correct sky colors, whereas the middle clip (v0.26) is not correct. Do you have an explanation why your original clip was azure blue? I don't, but I'm hoping you got the FW mixed up
Thanks for testing. You live in a beautiful area.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 09:35 AM
jhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
The structure of the firmware file was modified, so that's the reason you couldn't use the software to install the firmware. As you noticed, that's been corrected.

Your new video is exactly as I expected. The first and last clips show the correct sky colors, whereas the middle clip (v0.26) is not correct. Do you have an explanation why your original clip was azure blue? I don't, but I'm hoping you got the FW mixed up
Thanks for testing. You live in a beautiful area.
Thanks for confirming the reason for my first fw update challenge No problem, I have done manual updates on my #16 many times, and the procedure is well documented by some good people at the forum...
Sorry - I have no explanation for the colors, and I am not able to repeat the shots today. Maybe the blue sky combined with the reflection on the fjord made a difference?

Just for fun I took some stills of the sky with Mobius (latest fw) and HTC One for comparison - see attached..
.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 09:39 AM
Arcee Moron
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The Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JooVuu View Post
Hey everyone,
To celebrate the Mobius being released we from today until Sunday (23:59 GMT) we are offering free shipping on the Mobius and accessories, bike mount, car mount, and the helmet mount (this will be in stock shortly and if pre-ordered before the end time free shipping will still apply). So if you want to receive your item quickly and with free shipping go to www.JooVuu.com and use the following code:

freemobiusshipping

Any questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Kind regards,

Dan

Well I just ordered one, 3 items left in stock now.

But the "freemobiusshipping" code did not work. Told me code was already used.
Payed anyway, but wonder if we get a refund for this?
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Justapoke View Post
Well I just ordered one, 3 items left in stock now.

But the "freemobiusshipping" code did not work. Told me code was already used.
Payed anyway, but wonder if we get a refund for this?
I Agree. Atleast we could get a free tracking number and maybe a top classified waterproof case
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 10:24 AM
Arcee Moron
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The Netherlands
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A free memory card would be nice...

Hope to get the camera soon, I'm used to order the 808's from eletoponline365 in China but figured this time it would be faster from the UK to the Netherlands. Free shipping would have been the icing on the cake!

We'll see how JooVuu handles this.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 10:24 AM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroDank View Post
Turned out it wasn't even "a couple of days"
When will I be able to get the helmet mount? Also, when will there be a waterproof+dustproof case?
Wanted to buy the camera + helmet mount to save a few $, but it may not be worth the wait. Going to order the mobius right now.
What kind of base would a "real helmet mount" have. It would need to adapt to many different curved surfaces. maybe one will be offered later, but I think I could certainly adapt the flat adhesive plate mount to any helmet I have with a little ingenuity (and maybe a few small bolts)
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 10:30 AM
Camera Reseller.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xardinen View Post
I Agree. Atleast we could get a free tracking number and maybe a top classified waterproof case
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justapoke View Post
A free memory card would be nice...

Hope to get the camera soon, I'm used to order the 808's from eletoponline365 in China but figured this time it would be faster from the UK to the Netherlands. Free shipping would have been the icing on the cake!

We'll see how JooVuu handles this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justapoke View Post
Well I just ordered one, 3 items left in stock now.

But the "freemobiusshipping" code did not work. Told me code was already used.
Payed anyway, but wonder if we get a refund for this?
Problem has been solved. If you have placed an order with us please contact me at info@joovuu.com and we will refund you your shipping costs.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 10:40 AM
Arcee Moron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JooVuu View Post
Problem has been solved. If you have placed an order with us please contact me at info@joovuu.com and we will refund you your shipping costs.
Cool.. you have mail
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 10:48 AM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
My first video with the latest FW - v0.32.
.
Link to Vimeo https://vimeo.com/69230564
Sorry, I am not a Vimeo Plus member, and it looks like Vimeo down converts the 1080p upload to 720p.
I may become a Plus member later, in the meantime I shall try to upload to YouTube in 1080p..

Link to YouTube..
http://youtu.be/kGx76sl_6zc
Vimeo allows just one 1080p video (500 mb limit, I think) per week to be uploaded in their basic (free) hosting service. Any uploads after the first during the same week will be encoded in 720p mode. It renews every sat at midnight.

But more importantly, your sample is .MP4, not .MOV and it has obviously been edited and re-encoded before you uploaded to Vimeo. I D/L your original upload and found the data rate is only about 2500 kbps! An un-edited native video in 1080p Standard quality mode it should have about 15000 kbps data rate, 6 times greater than your edited version! I thought your lens might be out of focus, but hard to tell with such low data rate. Your scenery is GORGEOUS, but the video doesn't do it justice.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jun 27, 2013 at 10:55 AM.
Old Jun 27, 2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
What kind of base would a "real helmet mount" have. It would need to adapt to many different curved surfaces. maybe one will be offered later, but I think I could certainly adapt the flat adhesive plate mount to any helmet I have with a little ingenuity (and maybe a few small bolts)
A GOOD helmet mount helps a lot with vibration. I know I can make one - already did for a flashlight with industrial velcro straps and zip ties, but I wanted to see what kind of helmet mounters would be offer.
You can't do a business without extra accessories, even so with a so called "Action Camera" - people want to mount it in very different surfaces, out of the box and don't mess around with velcro straps and/or zip ties. I'm going to make one myself, but if I see a good cheap one, I'll buy it. The same for the handlebars if I need too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Vimeo allows just one 1080p video (500 mb limit, I think) per week to be uploaded in their basic (free) hosting service. Any uploads after the first during the same week will be encoded in 720p mode. It renews every sat at midnight.

But more importantly, your sample is .MP4, not .MOV and it has obviously been edited and re-encoded before you uploaded to Vimeo. I D/L your original upload and found the data rate is only about 2500 kbps! An un-edited native video in 1080p Standard quality mode it should have about 15000 kbps data rate, 6 times greater than your edited version! I thought your lens might be out of focus, but hard to tell with such low data rate. Your scenery is GORGEOUS, but the video doesn't do it justice.
Was going to post the same thing. Download the original too and noticed the very low bitrate...
Any reason why you need to re-encode it?
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 11:32 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
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Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroDank View Post
A GOOD helmet mount helps a lot with vibration. I know I can make one - already did for a flashlight with industrial velcro straps and zip ties, but I wanted to see what kind of helmet mounters would be offer.
You can't do a business without extra accessories, even so with a so called "Action Camera" - people want to mount it in very different surfaces, out of the box and don't mess around with velcro straps and/or zip ties. I'm going to make one myself, but if I see a good cheap one, I'll buy it. The same for the handlebars if I need too.



Was going to post the same thing. Download the original too and noticed the very low bitrate...
Any reason why you need to re-encode it?
A very robust handlebar mount is already available as a camera option!

There's no reason a video needs to be re-encoded just to upload to these hosting sites. Even trimming out unwanted sections or adding/deleting sound tracks can be done via a direct copy process without re-encoding the video stream.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 11:45 AM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
Does turning on WDR improve the sky? Therau2000's video of better coloured sky was using WDR:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post25313087

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post25313867
Not during my testing. What does matter a lot is the direction the camera is pointing and whether the sky is clear and bright with no clouds or partly cloudy. With a clear blue sky, it will always look the darkest and most saturate when point 180 deg. away from the sun, and less so as you pan towards the sun, with the least sky color saturation when pointing at or near the sun.

WDR, based on my understanding, extends the extremes of the CMOS sensitivity by increasing the gain, which adds an increment of video noise at the same time. I don't know if the WDR only kicks in at the low light end of the range or not. In my brighter outdoor tests I could not see any difference, nor in my indoor tests, but then that's not something I tested very strenuously with so much other stuff having higher priority. maybe someone will show some clips showing a difference. I don't really use the camera for indoor video much, so it's not a high priority for me, but an outdoor scene around dawn and dusk where a bright sky can dominate the exposure leaving the ground scenes under exposed would be where a WDR difference would be welcome. I have not even gotten any AV with mine yet.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 11:52 AM
jhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Vimeo allows just one 1080p video (500 mb limit, I think) per week to be uploaded in their basic (free) hosting service. Any uploads after the first during the same week will be encoded in 720p mode. It renews every sat at midnight.

But more importantly, your sample is .MP4, not .MOV and it has obviously been edited and re-encoded before you uploaded to Vimeo. I D/L your original upload and found the data rate is only about 2500 kbps! An un-edited native video in 1080p Standard quality mode it should have about 15000 kbps data rate, 6 times greater than your edited version! I thought your lens might be out of focus, but hard to tell with such low data rate. Your scenery is GORGEOUS, but the video doesn't do it justice.
Hi Tom! Long time no see..

First - I am not an experienced Vimeo user, so please bear with me I tried to upload full 1080p, but got the understanding that it was only for Plus and PRO users, but 720p was OK, but only 1 (one) pr. week (I think). I'll try again when I have time..
Second: I used "Avidemux 2.6.4 (32-bit)" to crop the original video, and in order not to lose quality, made a COPY (selected "copy" for video output) and "AVI Muxer" for "Output Format" (only possible choice for me to avoid error messages). I noticed that Avidemux saved in an .AVI container, but checked the statistics from VLC media player (see attached) and it looked OK and I called it good. Also - the process took only a second, so no re-encoding could have happened. Maybe I need to install more codecs? Again I am no expert, but try to learn
Possibly - when I added music Vimeo did the re-encoding (pointing fingers )

EDIT
Found this in Vimeo FAQ section..
Is Vimeo HD the same as HDTV?
Vimeo presents HD in the 720p format, exactly the same resolution (1280×720) used by major broadcast, cable, and satellite networks.
Plus and PRO users can also upload 1080p videos and have them play back in extra-high definition
.


EDIT EDIT
"Your scenery is GORGEOUS, but the video doesn't do it justice"
I added YouTube links to my first post for my first video plus a new clip - please try to watch i 1080p?

-Jan
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Last edited by jhi; Jun 27, 2013 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Added info
Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:13 PM
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Some helmet mounts I found:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Universa...item3cd1da035c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cam-Bracket-...item417466e216

@jhi, that looks ok. When we download the video from Vimeo, we are getting their re-encoded version available to streaming and not your original upload.
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Last edited by PedroDank; Jun 27, 2013 at 12:23 PM.
Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
... Even trimming out unwanted sections or adding/deleting sound tracks can be done via a direct copy process without re-encoding the video stream.
VIDEO CUTTING - I think it would be helpful to have a list of video applications that can cut the Mobius MOV file without re-encoding it, so there is no loss of video quality.

SolveigMM Video Splitter - Windows only - Cuts the 30 and 60 FPS MOV file with no glitches. Seems to only cut on 15 frame boundaries, probably key-frames.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:21 PM
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720p cropped

Quote:
Originally Posted by ondrascz View Post
I asked already in the previous thread, but I didn't got any suitable answer. Will there be in the future to use 720@60p mode with same angle of view as in 1080p mode? It means no sampling from the centre of the CMOS, but from cells across all the surface. Is it even possible with used module and DSP?

I would be a great pity not to have 60p footage with wide view angle on a cemera which calls itself "action".
I miss the wide angle on 720p mode too. It looks all the cheaper cameras have the same cropped 720p mode.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:31 PM
jhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroDank View Post
Some helmet mounts I found:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Universa...item3cd1da035c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cam-Bracket-...item417466e216

@jhi, that looks ok. When we download the video from Vimeo, we are getting their re-encoded version available to streaming and not your original upload.
Puhhh - thanks for confirming! I was a little embarassed for a while

-Jan
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:50 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,138 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroDank View Post
...

@jhi, that looks ok. When we download the video from Vimeo, we are getting their re-encoded version available to streaming and not your original upload.
Hmmm... it looks like Vimeo has changed their policy! They used to keep the original upload available for down load for one week before they swapped in the (severely re-encoded) version. But I just tried to download one of my 2 day old uploads (with about 15000 kbps at rate), and also got the crappy 2500 kbps .mp4 version! Boo hiss on Vimeo!
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:50 PM
Registered User
Austria
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroDank View Post
Some helmet mounts I found:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Universa...item3cd1da035c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cam-Bracket-...item417466e216

@jhi, that looks ok. When we download the video from Vimeo, we are getting their re-encoded version available to streaming and not your original upload.
this look cheaper


http://www.ebay.com/itm/HQ-Bicycle-B...item2a168d9ab0



ops original mobius accessory are even cheaper


http://www.ebay.com/itm/HQ-Bicycle-B...item2a168d9ab0
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 01:17 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
Hi Tom! Long time no see..

First - I am not an experienced Vimeo user, so please bear with me I tried to upload full 1080p, but got the understanding that it was only for Plus and PRO users, but 720p was OK, but only 1 (one) pr. week (I think). I'll try again when I have time..
Second: I used "Avidemux 2.6.4 (32-bit)" to crop the original video, and in order not to lose quality, made a COPY (selected "copy" for video output) and "AVI Muxer" for "Output Format" (only possible choice for me to avoid error messages). I noticed that Avidemux saved in an .AVI container, but checked the statistics from VLC media player (see attached) and it looked OK and I called it good. Also - the process took only a second, so no re-encoding could have happened. Maybe I need to install more codecs? Again I am no expert, but try to learn
Possibly - when I added music Vimeo did the re-encoding (pointing fingers )

EDIT
Found this in Vimeo FAQ section..
Is Vimeo HD the same as HDTV?
Vimeo presents HD in the 720p format, exactly the same resolution (1280×720) used by major broadcast, cable, and satellite networks.
Plus and PRO users can also upload 1080p videos and have them play back in extra-high definition.


EDIT EDIT
"Your scenery is GORGEOUS, but the video doesn't do it justice"
I added YouTube links to my first post for my first video plus a new clip - please try to watch i 1080p?

-Jan
Hi Jan,

See my prior post about the Vimeo site change for downloading a user's uploaded video. They no longer keep the original for a week like they used to, so it's a Vimeo re-encoding issue, not your processing! I just tested with one of my own clips upload two days ago and got the same garbage download. I now have to look into maybe using YouTube (ugh!)

FWIW, AviDemux can do a direct copy of the video into an MP4 container, but the audio stream must either be re-encoded (e.g. selecting MP3 output well) or deleted entirely (via the audio tab to turn off the source video). The latter option is much faster if you don't want the audio track.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 01:21 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,138 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Normandy5 View Post
VIDEO CUTTING - I think it would be helpful to have a list of video applications that can cut the Mobius MOV file without re-encoding it, so there is no loss of video quality.

SolveigMM Video Splitter - Windows only - Cuts the 30 and 60 FPS MOV file with no glitches. Seems to only cut on 15 frame boundaries, probably key-frames.
AviDemux can do it, and it's a free solution. But it, too, requires a starting cut to be on a key frame. But that's not a big restriction... loses only 1/2 sec. of video in the worst case, and the editor has buttons for stepping forward or backward through key frames.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 01:42 PM
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Tom,
I'm using VideoPad based on your recommendation. How can I clip the length of a video without recoding the whole thing?
Thank you.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ondrascz View Post
I asked already in the previous thread, but I didn't got any suitable answer. Will there be in the future to use 720@60p mode with same angle of view as in 1080p mode? It means no sampling from the centre of the CMOS, but from cells across all the surface. Is it even possible with used module and DSP?

I would be a great pity not to have 60p footage with wide view angle on a cemera which calls itself "action".
It might be possible to use "pixel binning" to crunch the full CMOS imager AOV down to 720p width, but maybe not enough time to also deliver the full 60 fps rate without dropped frames. It's too early to tell what this camera will ultimately be able to do. 1080p @ 60 fps is a possibility that has yet to be explored.

But FWIW, the Mobius 720p image with the standard lens has an AOV that is only about 10 deg. (estimate) less than the #16 with it's wide angle D lens! Also, I've tested a much wider AOV lens for the Mobius that has excellent video properties (assuming the inherent fisheye distortion doesn't bother you), and in 720p-60fps mode it has an AOV only about 10 deg (estimate) less than the standard lens in 1080p mode. This lens is not yet available.

At any rate, this would qualify in my book as an "action" cam.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iskess View Post
Tom,
I'm using VideoPad based on your recommendation. How can I clip the length of a video without recoding the whole thing?
Thank you.
You can't do it with the free VideoPad or WMM editors. If you convert the file (losslessly) using the free MP4cam2AVI.exe utility, you can trim files via direct copy using VirtualDub, or you can use the Solveig AVItrimmer (the free version of their Video Splitter utility Normandy5 mentioned).

Any editing other than trimming that modifies the video in any way (even cropping) requires re-encoding.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Normandy5 View Post
VIDEO CUTTING - I think it would be helpful to have a list of video applications that can cut the Mobius MOV file without re-encoding it, so there is no loss of video quality.

SolveigMM Video Splitter - Windows only - Cuts the 30 and 60 FPS MOV file with no glitches. Seems to only cut on 15 frame boundaries, probably key-frames.
When I get time, I'll have a post up front that covers editing (with free utilities only), but it will be mostly cut and paste from the #16 thread since they are all MOV files. I didn't cover trimming and direct copying there, though.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
You've piste the same item twice. Was that your intention?
Those are to be installed on the bars, not the helmet. But I appreciate your sharing
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Hi Jan,

See my prior post about the Vimeo site change for downloading a user's uploaded video. They no longer keep the original for a week like they used to, so it's a Vimeo re-encoding issue, not your processing! I just tested with one of my own clips upload two days ago and got the same garbage download. I now have to look into maybe using YouTube (ugh!)

FWIW, AviDemux can do a direct copy of the video into an MP4 container, but the audio stream must either be re-encoded (e.g. selecting MP3 output well) or deleted entirely (via the audio tab to turn off the source video). The latter option is much faster if you don't want the audio track.
Thank you, thank you!

I was just pulling your leg when I asked you to watch YouTube in 1080p, but it looked like turned out useful (I know how you felt about YouTube before). I realize now I have to be a Plus member to upload full HD to Vimeo. Are you a Plus member? Anyway - I think the YouTube 1080p quality is OK - next to original material.

Avidemux. I agree - it is a good, free program, but there is a learning curve (as always). I tried your tip - cropped and saved this 720p-60Hz video to a .mov file and disabling the source audio stream.
This may also contribute to the 720p-60Hz AOV discussion.
Does anybody know how YouTube is treating 60Hz material?

REC 0019 720p60Hz crop uten lyd (0 min 0 sec)


PS
Upload will be ready "soon"......

Regards Jan
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Last edited by jhi; Jun 27, 2013 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Added video link and question.
Old Jun 27, 2013, 02:28 PM
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I spoke to the developer regarding the helmet mount and they expect it to be ready within a few weeks or so. In the mean time I have sourced a few helmet mounts that should be arriving next week on www.JooVuu.com that are available for pre-order.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jhi View Post
Does anybody know how YouTube is treating 60Hz material?
Youtube downscales 60 fps to 30 fps. So basically there is no point in "youtubing" 720p/60 material. If Youtube is important to you, then it's better to shoot at 1080p/30...
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Fintastic View Post
Youtube downscales 60 fps to 30 fps. So basically there is no point in "youtubing" 720p/60 material. If Youtube is important to you, then it's better to shoot at 1080p/30...
Now I'll have to look at Vimeo in this regard as well. I don't like watching 1080p-30 fps video--- too jumpy motion in a large screen format. 720p, if true 60 fps at Vimeo, and that's where I'll be.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
AviDemux can do it, and it's a free solution. But it, too, requires a starting cut to be on a key frame. But that's not a big restriction... loses only 1/2 sec. of video in the worst case, and the editor has buttons for stepping forward or backward through key frames.
Here is my experience with Avidemux 2.6 and cutting Mobius 1080p MOV.
Does not output MOV.
Outputs MKV with no re-encode of video and audio.
Outputs MP4 with no re-encode of video but audio must be re-encoded to AAC or MP3.
Outputs AVI with no re-encode of audio but the video plays only in some players (No in Windows Media Player, No in KMPlayer, Yes in VLC).
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Normandy5 View Post
Here is my experience with Avidemux 2.6 and cutting Mobius 1080p MOV.
Does not output MOV.
Outputs MKV with no re-encode of video and audio.
Outputs MP4 with no re-encode of video but audio must be re-encoded to AAC or MP3.
Outputs AVI with no re-encode of audio but the video plays only in some players (No in Windows Media Player, No in KMPlayer, Yes in VLC).
Yep, same here, with deleting the audio stream also an option where re-encoding it is necessary.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:10 PM
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jhi, could you please share the raw videos with us? You can share it in dropbox, for example...
Also, could you please share some 720p@60fps?
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
...
http://youtu.be/5L8lTAoXPOM

PS
Upload will be ready "soon"......

Regards Jan
Can you please download your camera config file and post it here? I'd like to see it. You do that by starting with the camera off and unplugged from the PC (with memory card in the camera), then PRESS AND HOLD the Mode button, and while still HOLDING, PRESS AND HOLD the Power button until the red LED blinks and turns off. The config file will be on your memory card named SYSCFG.TXT. It's a plain ASCII file, so you can cut and paste the text here. Some text will be shown as "Smileys", but that's OK for my purposes.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Now I'll have to look at Vimeo in this regard as well.
I don't think Vimeo supports 60 fps either, unless they have made changes recently.

The best (and pretty much only?) way to distribute 60 fps video is to just share it as a file somewhere...
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:26 PM
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Hey Tom, Do you have any Experience with the Boscam HD19? Being as these both are HD and offer Video out how do you think they compare? Also How does the Video out compare to dedicated fpv cams like the z4020 on securitycamera2000??
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:30 PM
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waterproof

Does anybody know if a waterproof case is planed for MOBIUS cam, something like the one for the #26 or SJ1000 and for what price approximately.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trickedout View Post
Hey Tom, Do you have any Experience with the Boscam HD19? Being as these both are HD and offer Video out how do you think they compare? Also How does the Video out compare to dedicated fpv cams like the z4020 on securitycamera2000??
That would be interesting.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:34 PM
jhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Can you please download your camera config file and post it here? I'd like to see it. You do that by starting with the camera off and unplugged from the PC (with memory card in the camera), then PRESS AND HOLD the Mode button, and while still HOLDING, PRESS AND HOLD the Power button until the red LED blinks and turns off. The config file will be on your memory card named SYSCFG.TXT. It's a plain ASCII file, so you can cut and paste the text here. Some text will be shown as "Smileys", but that's OK for my purposes.
Here...
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 03:59 PM
jhi
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removed..
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Last edited by jhi; Aug 14, 2013 at 04:35 PM.
Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trickedout View Post
Hey Tom, Do you have any Experience with the Boscam HD19? Being as these both are HD and offer Video out how do you think they compare? Also How does the Video out compare to dedicated fpv cams like the z4020 on securitycamera2000??
I have Boscam HD19 and SJ1000 plus #18 , etc ... but I have Mobius only on the way to me ...

For what I can see Boscam HD19 need a strong light to perform good, else the color and contrast is a bit weak. Boscam HD19 also has quite some noise visible in the captured photos and still frames.

For what I see I think Mobius should perform similar to SJ1000 if not better, that means colors and contrast are more sharp, and low light video are better

From RC usage maybe Boscam is a bit more optimized, I hate to charge an external battery once I have already 5v and 12v on my FPV bird ... mouting options with Mobius are way better then #18/#16 and maybe on pair of Boscam

Anyhow, the reference for video is GoPro .. or Sony As10 ...

Anyhow for 69$ ... there is no cheaper and better 1080p camera on the market ... Boscam cost 106$ , so almost double, and possibly does not bring any better quality unless it is a super sunny day



ps: YouTube is my reference for check video quality ... I have #11,#18,DV04 and SJ1000 on my channel there for comparison ... but you can check many other videos ... SJ1000 make very sharp video similar to GoPro, and better then HD19 , unless the day is super sunny ... the few Mobius video on YouTube are quite good quality for my point of view ...

pps: In two weeks time I can compare Mobius to my other comes ... eventually I can borrow a GoPro3 black as reference too ...
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
I have Boscam HD19 and SJ1000 plus #18 , etc ... but I have Mobius only on the way to me ...

For what I can see Boscam HD19 need a strong light to perform good, else the color and contrast is a bit weak. Boscam HD19 also has quite some noise visible in the captured photos and still frames.

For what I see I think Mobius should perform similar to SJ1000 if not better, that means colors and contrast are more sharp, and low light video are better

From RC usage maybe Boscam is a bit more optimized, I hate to charge an external battery once I have already 5v and 12v on my FPV bird ... mouting options with Mobius are way better then #18/#16 and maybe on pair of Boscam

Anyhow, the reference for video is GoPro .. or Sony As10 ...

Anyhow for 69$ ... there is no cheaper and better 1080p camera on the market ... Boscam cost 106$ , so almost double, and possibly does not bring any better quality unless it is a super sunny day



ps: YouTube is my reference for check video quality ... I have #11,#18,DV04 and SJ1000 on my channel there for comparison ... but you can check many other videos ... SJ1000 make very sharp video similar to GoPro, and better then HD19 , unless the day is super sunny ... the few Mobius video on YouTube are quite good quality for my point of view ...

pps: In two weeks time I can compare Mobius to my other comes ... eventually I can borrow a GoPro3 black as reference too ...
Thank you for that, Im really only concerned with the live video out, I just want to know how they compare to a pz0420 or similar as I need a new fpv cam and maybe something along these lines that record hd as well would be cool since buying a fpv cam and Gopro is out of the question now...
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:52 PM
jhi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trickedout View Post
Thank you for that, Im really only concerned with the live video out, I just want to know how they compare to a pz0420 or similar as I need a new fpv cam and maybe something along these lines that record hd as well would be cool since buying a fpv cam and Gopro is out of the question now...
I have tried VideoOut on my mini octocopter. I am also new to FPV piloting, but for me the camera is perfect - don't know the AOV for VideoOut, I guess about the same as 720p-60fps. Total weight for my FPV equipment is only ab. 78g! (5.8Ghz VTX, simple OSD and Mobius).

-Jan
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trickedout View Post
Hey Tom, Do you have any Experience with the Boscam HD19? Being as these both are HD and offer Video out how do you think they compare? Also How does the Video out compare to dedicated fpv cams like the z4020 on securitycamera2000??
I have no experience with any of them, and am focusing on what the Mobius can do here. But if they all output an antiquated analog composite video out signal, there's not much difference to be seen, and a lot depends on the display type (analog or digital) on the other end and conversion (if any) on that end.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salimi View Post
Does anybody know if a waterproof case is planed for MOBIUS cam, something like the one for the #26 or SJ1000 and for what price approximately.
One is planned, but I have no details on it. But I HAVE been able to fit a Mobius in the case you show for the #26, with very slight shaving of some ribs in the case and angling the front extrusion around the lens opening of the Mobius case. The button posts don't line up, obviously, nor can I fully close the case without cutting a bit off the button extensions, but the camera can be turned on and a recording started, placed in the case, then close the case. Also, it's necessary to shoot only 720p with narrow AOV or else the viewport on the case will clip the corners of the recorded video. I have NOT yet trimmed off the button pegs, so have NOT test the Mobius inside the sealed case. But I have done that test with the #26 and it gets REALLY HOT... WAY to hot to hold my finger on the metal camera case. I think the Mobius would have the same problem! This is NOT good for the battery or electronics. If it were under water and could remove some heat from the case exterior, it would help a bit, but I think some kind of metal case top is needed to conduct heat from the case interior to the ambient air a lot better.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Oct 29, 2013 at 08:40 AM. Reason: added comment about narrow AOV mode
Old Jun 27, 2013, 05:35 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
Here...
Thanks for post this. You settings are virtually the same as mine, but I cannot explain why you are getting that un-natural azure blue sky! That was eradicated a couple FW revisions ago, and does not show up in my video clips!
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
Hello,

I never shared anything from Dropbox before - let's see if this works
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hw1zgqmvv48zjrh/7d3vEXbIm4

-Jan
It works, but I had to D/L the entire folder to see one video. Only one of the videos would play properly for me... the 720p-60fps MOV file. The other two MOV files would not show any video with WMP, but played fine with VLC player. They looked GORGEOUS, but YouTube has sure butchered them! There is no way the YouTube clips do justice to the quality of the native video.

I can't figure out why the 1080p MOV files do not play with WMP. Did you just rename them, or has there been some other editing done to them? Windows File Properties do not show any video information for them, while media info does, so there is something fractured in the file structure. The 1080p .AVI file also does not play properly with WMP... it produces audio but no video, but again VLC plays them fine.

If the files have not been tampered with in any way, there is something strange going on with your camera. Maybe you should download and re-install the 0.32 FW since the colors you are getting are not representative of the 0.32 palette.

Can you upload a clip straight off the camera with the default file name format so it can be easily identified as a native camera file?
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 08:24 PM
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Apparently there's also a US seller on eBay, not official or anything of course.
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 08:56 PM
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Videos so far look great!

I am a bit ashamed to ask, and I know some will call me crazy, but: Do you think it would be possible in the future to implement a setting to choose between "Vivid colors" (i.e. with the azure sky, which I like) and "Real colors"?
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Old Jun 27, 2013, 09:00 PM
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About jhi videos: you can download 1 single video if you want. Just click it and then click the 3 dots button on the lower right corner to chose download.

Im on a mac but it happened here as well. VLC was the only one who played them correctly. And I too have noticed the azure blue...


About the case: it is not efficient, Tom. It heats a lot because too much air is trapped inside. The case should follow the design of the camera and should only be used when placed in moving objects to get some wind. The closer it is to the camera, the quicker it cools down the little air inside and the quicker the cooler gets transferred to it IF a proper heat-sink is installed. I would like to see some temperature readings with that case vs one as I described paired with a metal plate on top that also follows the top curves on the front (this is the are that is more prone to wind) which thens goes directly to the heatsink on its house.

I apologize if I could not explain it better. Had a really really rough day, so I'm tired and it is 3am here. 5h sleep - yey!
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Old Jun 28, 2013, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhi View Post
I have tried VideoOut on my mini octocopter. I am also new to FPV piloting, but for me the camera is perfect - don't know the AOV for VideoOut, I guess about the same as 720p-60fps. Total weight for my FPV equipment is only ab. 78g! (5.8Ghz VTX, simple OSD and Mobius).

-Jan
About video out the question are:

Is thre any unwanted OSD added by camera?

Since camera is 16:9 and av is 4:3 ... do you get black lines up and down, or it crop the left side video, or it mess up with proportions, making all object taller ?

Boscam just got a firmware update for improve the av out. And it is quite good now in my view
But I don't know nothing about av out from mobius

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