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Old Jan 14, 2004, 10:03 PM
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Speed-3's Avatar
cow town
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Lipo-Time...

With every one joining the Lipo club what does every one do while the hour or more is passing while the cells are charging?
When i go out to fly the last thing i want to do is wait an hour while a Lipo battery is charging. Just wondered if there was a secret activity every does while that hour or more is passing by....While we are adding Lipo to our designs id never buy them until at least they could be 2 C charged.

Just goes to show me how the wagon gets jumped on with out regard to the real draw backs of using such cells and there are way to many to be used on anything but the most low amp devices were flying time could exceed an hour itself there by allowing only 2 packs to be bought Never mind that the real good ones are over $79.00 per pack or more add a $200 charger and it makes me wonder how all the 16 year olds get there money to join the Lipo club.People, go to fly not charge your batterys and say hey i joined the newest fad Lipo.

Ken
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Old Jan 14, 2004, 10:22 PM
Frequent flyer
Grand Forks, ND
Joined Aug 2002
632 Posts
Quote:
$79.00 per pack
only got multiple parallel cells. single series cells are generally $20-$30 for 2 or 3 cell packs. it doesn't really pay to fly with lipo unless you have two packs, once you get up to that you can fly ALOT!
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Old Jan 14, 2004, 10:24 PM
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cow town
Joined Jun 2003
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Could you point out the brand or source and Ma?
all the cells i have seen that can do >10amps are >$59.00 per pack

Ken

Quote:
Originally posted by rkramer
only got multiple parallel cells. single series cells are generally $20-$30 for 2 or 3 cell packs. it doesn't really pay to fly with lipo unless you have two packs, once you get up to that you can fly ALOT!
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Old Jan 14, 2004, 10:39 PM
Nimble with Gimbals
San Diego, CA
Joined Apr 2003
2,368 Posts
The vast majority of lipo users own several packs and charge them at home. They offer so much flight time that bringing a charger to the field is completely unnecessary. The batteries are certainly more expensive but make up for their cost in run time and in most cases improved plane handling from the lighter weight.

In my case I charge up my 3s1p Thunder Power and 3s1p Kokam 1500 at home while I browse the forums. These two packs give me over an hour of run time at the park which suits me perfectly. I can't possibly ask for a better setup than this.
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Old Jan 14, 2004, 10:53 PM
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cow town
Joined Jun 2003
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And you paid how much for this type of setup if i may ask?

It's what i have looked at and found to be over priced but the type i would need to buy if i were to get some.

While we can buy wholesale even at those prices it's too high to wait an hour. Now that's just my personal thing.
We are designing in Lipo aware controls to meet the demand of the cells.


Ken


Quote:
Originally posted by Awakened
The vast majority of lipo users own several packs and charge them at home. They offer so much flight time that bringing a charger to the field is completely unnecessary. The batteries are certainly more expensive but make up for their cost in run time and in most cases improved plane handling from the lighter weight.

In my case I charge up my 3s1p Thunder Power and 3s1p Kokam 1500 at home while I browse the forums. These two packs give me over an hour of run time at the park which suits me perfectly. I can't possibly ask for a better setup than this.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 12:05 AM
Nimble with Gimbals
San Diego, CA
Joined Apr 2003
2,368 Posts
AstroFlight 109 Charger - $125
3s1p Kokam 1500 - $50
3s1p Thunder Power 2100 - $75

Flying for an hour without having to bring a charger - PRICELESS


Seriously though, lithium polymers are still an investment that has to be evaluated carefully. I pay a premium for the luxuries these batteries provide but in the end I feel the price is more than justified. I have good quality packs and a fantastic charger that will last for years barring any major mishaps.

My particular packs are capable of handling 12A continuous with the occasional 15A burst. They provide more than enough power throughout their charge and I haven't even hit my LVC yet. Shoot, even the cheapest first-gen E-Tec 1200's can do 8 amps fairly comfortably and they're down to around $10 per cell.

If you're unable to afford them or can't find an hour of your time to charge them (I still don't see how this matters if you're charging at home) then stick with Ni-Mh and its limitations.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 07:29 AM
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Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Sounds like you're a candidate to stick with NiMH cells for a while..
..a
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 08:16 AM
Straight up is all I ask
Fairfield Ct USA
Joined Apr 2002
2,321 Posts
Pass the hat to the moddlers with new lipo,s . They likley will give up their old nimh batts free.(the smart ones will) I've ben giving away my not so old stuff.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 08:30 AM
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cow town
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Until the Lipolys can give up 12 Amps for a honest hour Yes ill stick with NiCad or NiMH.The hour time is so the last pack is ready to go.I understand the cells would have to be 12 AH many persons here talk like Lipos don't follow real laws and fly longer then they really do since they already blew there money on them and there stuck......Ie My plane flys over 45 minutes hum, failed to say his plane only pulls 2 Amps in flight It's hog wash like this that people believe there getting more then they got. A Magic battery pack of sorts..Lipo the magic batteries that last for ever even if you pull down 12 amps like my shock flyer? NO WAY !
at best id get 20 Minutes of flight and i can get that now using my cheap old NimH cells that only take 20 minutes to charge.
does anyone do the math to see that what most claims on flight times are total Bs? Think about this the next time some one says my plane fly’s an hour on lipoly Ya right buddy!
Do the math friends… Lipoly The biggest lie since the one that Firebat really fly’s!


Ken







Quote:
Originally posted by Andy W
Sounds like you're a candidate to stick with NiMH cells for a while..
..a
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 10:42 AM
17 years on RCG!
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Dec 1996
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Ken if you think all the reports of more power, less weight and more flight time with LiPos is a lie, then youre seriously mistaken...

If your NiCad/NiMh pack can deliver 20 minutes of flight time, a LiPo the same weight will fly it for 4 times longer. If you use a LiPo pack nearly 1/2 the weight, youll fly nearly double and with a much better performing plane.

Some people just will never get it I guess.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 10:56 AM
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United States, NY, Spencerport
Joined Oct 2001
2,801 Posts
Ken,

I don't understand why you think people are lying about how long their planes fly on LiPolys... Duration is a function of Amp draw vs. cell capacity. Why is it so unfathomable to you that many setups have enough capacity to run the motor for long periods of time?

There is no magic at work here. If your plane flies for 5 minutes on a 1000mAh battery, then you will need 12000mAh to fly for an hour. Typical early Lithium setups were GWS Tiger Moths and 1000mAh LiPolys. Since the stock GWS Tiger moth could fly for 4-5 mintues on the stock 110mAh battery, simple multiplication tells us that we can expect 35-45 minutes of flying time.

The main advantage of LiPoly is that it packs four times as much capacity into the same volume/weight package as a NiCd. For the same weight, you fly four times as long, or for 1/4 of the weight, you fly the same. You can't have both, so it's up to you to choose which one suits you best.

What do you do for the hour you're waiting for the cells to charge? Fly your other planes. Chat with your flying buddies. Nap. Who cares? Going to the flying field can be more about being antisocial and getting all pi$$ed off about how long it takes to get the batteries charged. Besides, an hour is a gross exaggeration. Most of the time you only partially discharge the cells, so they only need to be partially charged.

I personally like this very plausible scenario:
A. Size the pack so it has sufficient capacity to fly the model for about 30 mintues.
B. Fly model for 10 minutes.
C. Land and put battery on charger.
D. 20 minutes later, model is almost completely charged up to full again.
E. Fly model for 10 minutes.
F. Repeat C, D, and E.

You're never waiting more than 20 minute for the batteries to charge, and you don't necessarily have to wait until the batteries are fully charged to go flying again. Yeah, 30-minute flights are cool and all, the first few times you do it, but get real. Everybody eventually gets tired of marathon flights, and settles down into the typical routine of 10 minutes up, 20 minutes down.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 10:58 AM
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Mostly in Norman, OK
Joined May 2002
1,868 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Speed-3
Do the math friends… Lipoly The biggest lie since the one that Firebat really fly’s!
You're beginning to sound like SR Batteries

Anyways:

1) if you're flying 12A ALL THE TIME on your shock flyer, you might want to reconsider your flying style.

2) why a all-or-nothing aproach? I go to the field with LiPo, NiMh, and Nicads - LiPo's that I charged last weekend and can I fly immediately while I repeak my other packs; NiMh for other middle of the road setups, and NiCad for Hacker/Bandit. (okay, I am leaving NiCads behind once my current CP1700's are done with, but I can't pony up the $$ yet for large LiPo packs (>$150)).

3) oh, and Firebats really fly

But seriously, if you're into designing ESC's you should be able to figure the math the tell you the advantages of LiPo ...
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Last edited by Peter Khor; Jan 15, 2004 at 11:06 AM.
Old Jan 15, 2004, 11:25 AM
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cow town
Joined Jun 2003
98 Posts
Hey Peter!

All the time is Hovering etc and is a Big part of a shock flyer and by design it's a big power eater.
Ok maybe 10 amps full time.

Ken

Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Khor
You're beginning to sound like SR Batteries

Anyways:

1) if you're flying 12A ALL THE TIME on your shock flyer, you might want to reconsider your flying style.

2) why a all-or-nothing aproach? I go to the field with LiPo, NiMh, and Nicads - LiPo's that I charged last weekend and can I fly immediately while I repeak my other packs; NiMh for other middle of the road setups, and NiCad for Hacker/Bandit. (okay, I am leaving NiCads behind once my current CP1700's are done with, but I can't pony up the $$ yet for large LiPo packs (>$150)).

3) oh, and Firebats really fly

But seriously, if you're into designing ESC's you should be able to figure the math the tell you the advantages of LiPo ...
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 11:32 AM
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cow town
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What i trying to say and you know it's true is peole buy this stuff and embelish what they got.Like this say they got a 1200Ma Lipoly cell Oh my plane now flys 45 minutes.Ok but the same Nicad
or NiMh they just got rid of had the same AH should have had Near the same time but now it's 45 minutes vs 20 of the Nicad Nimh.

Like this your doing the same thing:

Ken if you think all the reports of more power, less weight and more flight time with LiPos is a lie, then youre seriously mistaken...

More power is 1200Ma the same on every cell rated at that AH?Wt is a place they do save on ok fine but More power,Power is power..More flight time again more power?No less wt even half the wt is not double the flight time buddy...




Quote:
Originally posted by LVRCFlyer
Ken if you think all the reports of more power, less weight and more flight time with LiPos is a lie, then youre seriously mistaken...

If your NiCad/NiMh pack can deliver 20 minutes of flight time, a LiPo the same weight will fly it for 4 times longer. If you use a LiPo pack nearly 1/2 the weight, youll fly nearly double and with a much better performing plane.

Some people just will never get it I guess.
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Old Jan 15, 2004, 11:36 AM
Nimble with Gimbals
San Diego, CA
Joined Apr 2003
2,368 Posts
Have you ever used lithium polymer batteries?
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