HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Closed Thread
Thread Tools
Old Jun 19, 2013, 12:45 PM
Official Android Developer
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Mar 2012
446 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by therau2000 View Post
Can anybody see the problems with colors in this video ?

http://vimeo.com/68636755
Video was shot with firmware v0.29 with WDR (Wide Dynamic Range) turned ON.

Personally I think colors are great; but I am not a qualified expert.
therau2000 is offline Find More Posts by therau2000
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 19, 2013, 01:16 PM
Mr.
Gomario's Avatar
South Africa, EC, Humansdorp
Joined Dec 2011
65 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikybob View Post
i'm often asked what color is the sky in your world?

hmmmmm?

No, in utilizing the yard stick from unwatchable to perfection i would (forgive me anal retentive "videophiles") rate the video as "more than adequate".

Now, back to you "hair splitters".

B
+1
Gomario is offline Find More Posts by Gomario
Old Jun 19, 2013, 01:46 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2012
72 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by therau2000 View Post
Video was shot with firmware v0.29 with WDR (Wide Dynamic Range) turned ON.

Personally I think colors are great; but I am not a qualified expert.
Thx for the info and the video. Colors are great.
Does WDR have any disadvantages when turned on?

IMO the bright blue sky is a problem of overexposure, too much contrast or both.
All this is caused by limited dynamic range. So a WDR mode could be exactly what this cam needs.
lensman82 is offline Find More Posts by lensman82
Old Jun 19, 2013, 02:02 PM
Official Android Developer
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Mar 2012
446 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lensman82 View Post
Thx for the info and the video. Colors are great.
Does WDR have any disadvantages when turned on?

IMO the bright blue sky is a problem of overexposure, too much contrast or both.
All this is caused by limited dynamic range. So a WDR mode could be exactly what this cam needs.
Tried shooting the bright blue sky and also dark scenes with WDR ON and OFF. I see a big improvement when using WDR, so in the end, I prefer to keep WDR ON specially with ever changing scenery.

But as I said before, it is just my preference; I am not a qualified expert.
therau2000 is offline Find More Posts by therau2000
Old Jun 19, 2013, 02:06 PM
Registered User
Joined May 2013
10 Posts
I would be very happy with current quality from what I have seen until now.

Colors may also change with different lenses, so not everything can be done with software.
The question is: Can they make it much beater than it is at the moment.
salimi is offline Find More Posts by salimi
Old Jun 19, 2013, 02:10 PM
Registered User
WVrailfan's Avatar
United States, WV, St Albans
Joined Jul 2011
1,777 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by therau2000 View Post
Tried shooting the bright blue sky and also dark scenes with WDR ON and OFF. I see a big improvement when using WDR, so in the end, I prefer to keep WDR ON specially with ever changing scenery.

But as I said before, it is just my preference; I am not a qualified expert.
Actually, you are an "expert" on what you like.

I like colors in video and still photos to be nice and vivid. Some have complained about a so called Kodachrome effect, or colors being over saturated. However, I see bright colors as natural, and only washed out when distance and atmospheric haze dull colors naturally.

Jim
WVrailfan is offline Find More Posts by WVrailfan
Old Jun 19, 2013, 02:30 PM
Official Android Developer
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Mar 2012
446 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVrailfan View Post
Actually, you are an "expert" on what you like.

I like colors in video and still photos to be nice and vivid. Some have complained about a so called Kodachrome effect, or colors being over saturated. However, I see bright colors as natural, and only washed out when distance and atmospheric haze dull colors naturally.

Jim
Despite my old age (some people call me grand-grandpa therau) I run outside to record video then run inside to play it back immediately. I watch video on the screen and look through the window to compare and I see the exact same colors.

So Mobius AC must be pretty good for a less than $80 1080p video/photo camera !

Of course more settings/features will be added over time, but image quality is pretty well where it should be as far as I am concerned.
therau2000 is offline Find More Posts by therau2000
Old Jun 19, 2013, 03:06 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2012
72 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by therau2000 View Post
Tried shooting the bright blue sky and also dark scenes with WDR ON and OFF. I see a big improvement when using WDR, so in the end, I prefer to keep WDR ON specially with ever changing scenery.

But as I said before, it is just my preference; I am not a qualified expert.
Thx again for the info. Do you maybe know if the wider dynamic range is accomplished by simply reducing contrast or by combining 2 images with different exposure?
lensman82 is offline Find More Posts by lensman82
Old Jun 19, 2013, 04:37 PM
Official Android Developer
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Mar 2012
446 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lensman82 View Post
Thx again for the info. Do you maybe know if the wider dynamic range is accomplished by simply reducing contrast or by combining 2 images with different exposure?
I honestly don't know; if I had to venture a guess, I would say it is probably a hardware feature of the DSP that is OFF by default.

One thing for sure, I would not consider using a CDR (Car Driving Recorder) without having WDR turned ON.
therau2000 is offline Find More Posts by therau2000
Old Jun 19, 2013, 05:14 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,979 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by therau2000 View Post
Despite my old age (some people call me grand-grandpa therau) I run outside to record video then run inside to play it back immediately. I watch video on the screen and look through the window to compare and I see the exact same colors.

So Mobius AC must be pretty good for a less than $80 1080p video/photo camera !

Of course more settings/features will be added over time, but image quality is pretty well where it should be as far as I am concerned.
I pretty much fit the same mold as you! But I'm not as convinced that the FW is ready for prime time. I agree your sample video looked pretty good, but when I did my tests, I also shot away from the sun and compared with other still pictures captured by my point-and-shoot cameras. Before everyone jumps to conclusions, the photos below show why some of us think there is still work to be done. FWIW, I don't see any difference between having WDR on or off when shooting in bright light. The main benefit should be in low lit scenes where there's a trade off between better low light performance at the expense of additional video noise. Here's my test pics, all shot with WDR turn ON with v0.29 FW:
Tom Frank is online now Find More Posts by Tom Frank
Old Jun 19, 2013, 05:47 PM
Chasin' that Neon Rainbow
Grantham Kid's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Grantham
Joined Oct 2012
2,961 Posts
Personally I am dissappointed that the lens looks more fisheye than the #16 by far. I won't be buying one unless other lenses are offered.
Grantham Kid is offline Find More Posts by Grantham Kid
Old Jun 19, 2013, 05:49 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2012
72 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I pretty much fit the same mold as you! But I'm not as convinced that the FW is ready for prime time. I agree your sample video looked pretty good, but when I did my tests, I also shot away from the sun and compared with other still pictures captured by my point-and-shoot cameras. Before everyone jumps to conclusions, the photos below show why some of us think there is still work to be done. FWIW, I don't see any difference between having WDR on or off when shooting in bright light. The main benefit should be in low lit scenes where there's a trade off between better low light performance at the expense of additional video noise. Here's my test pics, all shot with WDR turn ON with v0.29 FW:
Thx for the sample images Tom.
The latest footage with WDR and FW 0.29 looks IMO better than earlier samples where only the sky was correctly exposed and the rest was dark.

I color corrected your image. The direct comparison makes that azure hue even more obvious. I hope the dev can get this fixed soon. Summer is here and I'd love to use the Mobius before autumn.

BTW, I love the viewing angle of this cam.
lensman82 is offline Find More Posts by lensman82
Old Jun 19, 2013, 06:00 PM
Registered User
Austria
Joined Jan 2004
8,068 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I pretty much fit the same mold as you! But I'm not as convinced that the FW is ready for prime time. I agree your sample video looked pretty good, but when I did my tests, I also shot away from the sun and compared with other still pictures captured by my point-and-shoot cameras. Before everyone jumps to conclusions, the photos below show why some of us think there is still work to be done. FWIW, I don't see any difference between having WDR on or off when shooting in bright light. The main benefit should be in low lit scenes where there's a trade off between better low light performance at the expense of additional video noise. Here's my test pics, all shot with WDR turn ON with v0.29 FW:
You guys are all focus on the precision of the color ... that in my view it is a detail that can be fixed by firmware any time ... or just source different lens ...

Still nobody did post some photo in different light condition at the real CMOS resolution ... for have a look the level of noise in the pixel, and which tricky are they using for filter out the noise ...

The level of noise of sensor is what at the end will declare how good is the cam.

As well ... some sensor has some tricky for make noise reduction, with filtering, multiple pixel mixing, etc etc ...

e_lm_70 is offline Find More Posts by e_lm_70
Old Jun 19, 2013, 06:49 PM
jhi
Registered User
jhi's Avatar
Norway
Joined Jun 2009
175 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lensman82 View Post

BTW, I love the viewing angle of this cam.
Yes, I agree!! I tried the Mobius with FPV today - it was acting both as a combined FPV and AV camera. In my opinion the AOV is perfect! Much better than my Sony 600TVL camera (too wide) - and also my #16 808 (which was kind of OK, perhaps a little narrow).

I have been looking for FW updates, but mSetup tells me that v0.26 is the latest. Will v0.29 also be available, or maybe I should wait for an even better FW? I am in no hurry, but was puzzeled when I saw v0.29 mentioned and could not find it .

-Jan
jhi is offline Find More Posts by jhi
Last edited by jhi; Jun 19, 2013 at 07:02 PM. Reason: ..spelling
Old Jun 19, 2013, 09:12 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,979 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
You guys are all focus on the precision of the color ... that in my view it is a detail that can be fixed by firmware any time ... or just source different lens ...

Still nobody did post some photo in different light condition at the real CMOS resolution ... for have a look the level of noise in the pixel, and which tricky are they using for filter out the noise ...

The level of noise of sensor is what at the end will declare how good is the cam.

As well ... some sensor has some tricky for make noise reduction, with filtering, multiple pixel mixing, etc etc ...

If it could be easily fixed with FW it would have been done several revisions ago! And as for no posts "at the real CMOS resolution", what do you think the photos I posted are... up-converted? If so, you are WRONG! Those photos are at the maximum full resolution of the CMOS imager... no upsizing! The noise level is what you see. In bright light there is no noticeable noise. Low light is a different story with all CMOS imagers, and setting WDR high will increase the noise level in order to get better brightness in a dark environment. These kinds of comments are why posting pre-release images is not a good idea IMHO.
Tom Frank is online now Find More Posts by Tom Frank
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Product Fitting the new Skyline stabilization board + sneak peek at new direct drive upgrade. booma Multirotor Talk 0 Apr 13, 2012 02:36 AM
Discussion Sneak Peek at the New Creation Museum Miami Mike Life, The Universe, and Politics 38 May 30, 2007 06:01 PM