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Old May 01, 2013, 02:31 AM
Since 1902. Maybe.
Olivier_C's Avatar
France, RA, Grenoble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDTague View Post
She fly's pretty good. With no camera or housing, in Atti mode, I'm getting about 5mins flight time out of a Ultra Pulse 2250mah 3S battery. A least that's when the red light starts blinking continuously. Not too happy with that, but I'll tinker with it. Right now she has 10" black DJI plastic props. Probably change props to Zingers or maybe (Maybe) CF's. I didn't like the black 8" DJI props or 9x5 Zingers. It seemed like I really had to pour the coal to her to get her off the ground with the black 8" and the Zinger just would NOT lift her.

I still need to do a little tweaking on the gains, but it's gusty windy here today. GPS mode is drifty. But in Atti, she fly's great. Need to do a little work on shielding the GPS better, too...I think! Right now, I have it sitting directly on top (centered). I put the stock phantom shielding material down 1st, then the GPS on top of that.
With a 3S thats no surprise you cannot run 8 or 9", there's not enough RPMs for anything but a 10".
If you switch to a 4S, about 3000mAh, you'll get a good 10 minutes and much more power to carry your GoPro

Also a 4S can run 8 or 9 or 10" without problems, I had these stock DJI motors before, flew these with many different kind of props, no heating issues.

Its weird thats you're having GPS issues with no vTX gear, are you're 100% sure the X/Y/Z values are fine for the GPS position in the DJI software ?
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Old May 01, 2013, 02:46 AM
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Can you really fly F550 and 4S battery with 10" stock props ?
I hven't try it because everyone says that there will be problem with this setup…..
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Old May 01, 2013, 03:08 AM
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No with the stock DJI props its 4S and 8", because the old 10x4.5 DJI 10" are quite high pitched.
But many motors can run 4S and 10", as long as its the streamlined kind of props, Graupners and all clones, RCtimers, etc
Not the slowfly kind (APC, DJI stock), these are often too angled for 4S in 10" size.

With the new 10x3.8 10" DJI its working, anyway just to be sure you can fly 1 minute, land and see if the motors are hot
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Old May 01, 2013, 03:33 AM
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what is a safe temperature for stock motors ?
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Old May 01, 2013, 06:30 AM
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I know the buggy guys are going as high as 80C, but that's obviously too high for our multi-rotors, and at 60C the glue that holds the magnet is said to soften, so I'd say a 45C is very conservative and safe, tbh its quite hard to overheat our motors, there's a lot of air available for cooling

More likely a motor is heating because of bad bearings, there's a lot of RPMs.
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Old May 01, 2013, 07:38 AM
Mmmmmmm!
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If you use the new DJI 1038 props or 10x5 Graupners you can use 4S without a problem. The motors come down warm, but not hot. So it's safe. Here's an example:

DJI F450 - KK2 + 10x5 Graupners + 4S = Fun (3 min 12 sec)


Here's a failed take-off.

F450 with KK2 - Full throttle from a standstill = Accidental flip! (0 min 16 sec)
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Old May 01, 2013, 10:20 AM
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Thats not a fail, just tell it was planned, "Hey look I found a new trick !"

I'm also flying 4S 10" its great.
And right now I'm leaving to try some new stuff with my F450, between 2 storms, horrendous weather, wish me luck

Quadcopter - La Frette (1 min 44 sec)
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Old May 01, 2013, 10:59 AM
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DJI F450 & 920kv at Altitude (Black Rock Desert)

Hi!

First time poster, please go gently with me

I want to run my F450 with FPV on DJI 920kv motors at altitude (high elevation, thanks Americans!); specifically around 1200 meters, 4000 feet in the Black Rock Desert.

Has anyone got experience of doing that? If so, would I be okay running a 1045 set of props on 4S? I'm aware that I'll need to return APM and I'm prepared for that.

Thanks for any solid information you can give me.
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Old May 01, 2013, 11:47 AM
How high will it go?
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Greenwood Lake NY
Joined Oct 2003
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Regarding the last bunch of posts about props and cells. I run my F450 on the following packs:
TP 1850 3S
Turnigy 2200 3S
Venom 5400 3S
Eflite 2200 4S
Nanotech 2650 4S

With both the DJI 8" plastic props, and the DJI 1038 carbons, with no problems. Of course each pack flies differently.

In this video, I am running landing skids, and a gopro2 with the full case on 1038 and 5400 3S. My throttle scaling is at 85. The climb out on this video was full throttle:
shadow into light (2 min 2 sec)


What you guys need to keep in mind is the amp draw. You must have batteries that can handle the amp draw. Some basic numbers:
8" DJI on 3S-25amps
1038 DJI carbon on 3S-38 amps
1038 DJI carbon on 4S-52 amps

I also had a bad motor on mine. At one point, the e-clip that holds the motor together must have fallen off, and that motor jammed which caused me to fly into the top of a tree. It took a lot of damage to get out. I bought a new motor, and a set of replacement bearings. It really didn't fly as good after that. Not sure which motor it was, the replacement or the original, but when I grabbed the motor by the prop hub and checked for play, one of them was making a "clicking" sound which was an indication of bad tolerance. I tried putting in my new replacement bearings, but it still did the same thing. So I just took the old motor that came apart, and put the bearings in that one and there was no more clicking noise or play in it. It seems to fly much better now. I had also noticed that the motor with the play in it, the magnets were not really in perfect line, like it was assembled incorrectly.

How hot do my motors get? I haven't measured the temps yet, but I haven't noticed anything unusual yet. It hasn't gone above 70F yet here, so outside temps are relatively cool. On 4S pushing it around a bit, stuff gets warm, including the ESc, but nothing to hot, I would say around 120F.

Flight times? without camera equip,
1800 3S- 7minutes
2200 3S- 8-9 minutes
5400 3S- 22 minutes
2200-2650 4S- 11-13 minutes of acro

@staling_aground, if you are going to fly that high, you should take into account how long it will take you to get that high, and come safely down. You don't want to run out of battery, and at the same time you don't want to be heavier than you need. The longer you push full throttle to climb that high, the hotter your stuff will get. Go in stages and monitor everything. I think when going to those altitudes it is important to have overlay information on your FPV showing voltage and temps. It may be a stretch for the F450 to pull that off, it depends on your take-off weight. Someone else better than me might know.
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Old May 01, 2013, 02:52 PM
Since 1902. Maybe.
Olivier_C's Avatar
France, RA, Grenoble
Joined Dec 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalling_aground View Post
First time poster, please go gently with me

I want to run my F450 with FPV on DJI 920kv motors at altitude (high elevation, thanks Americans!); specifically around 1200 meters, 4000 feet in the Black Rock Desert.

Has anyone got experience of doing that? If so, would I be okay running a 1045 set of props on 4S? I'm aware that I'll need to return APM and I'm prepared for that.
Welcome

I flew this whole winter between 1000 and 2380 meters high, and down to -17C, with DJI and Tmotors, under 4S and 9 or 10", the altitude is barely noticable to be honest, as long as your have enough spare power. Above 2000m yeah maybe you begin to notice...
Just when its cold it's better to keep the LiPos inside your vest to avoid a freeze.

Quadcopter - 25/02/2013 - Col de Romeyere (2 min 19 sec)
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Old May 01, 2013, 02:57 PM
DWA
John 3:16
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South Orange County,CA.
Joined Dec 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eirlink View Post
dave..my preference would be the aeroxcraft one. ive seen it in the flesh and its really well made. plus will be easy to find a brushless gimble for it. its the one ive ordered for my 550 build
I think you are right the aeroxcraft does look good for the F550..

Not so much for the F450 so I need to keep looking for those.


Dave
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Old May 01, 2013, 03:13 PM
DWA
John 3:16
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South Orange County,CA.
Joined Dec 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDTague View Post
Since she's not "technically" a Phantom anymore, I guess I need to switch to the F450 thread.

Got her all together...Finally!

Specs:
Phantom board
NAZA-M
GPS
DJI Flamewheel F450 frame
DJI 30A opto ESC's
DJI Red motors
10" DJI plastic props
ATG Carbon Fiber Anti-Vib Landing gear
fpvpilot gimbal
Hero 3-in water-proof housing
ImmersionRC 600mW 5.8ghz fpv tx
Devo 10 Tx
AX1002 Rx

She fly's pretty good. With no camera or housing, in Atti mode, I'm getting about 5mins flight time out of a Ultra Pulse 2250mah 3S battery. A least that's when the red light starts blinking continuously. Not too happy with that, but I'll tinker with it. Right now she has 10" black DJI plastic props. Probably change props to Zingers or maybe (Maybe) CF's. I didn't like the black 8" DJI props or 9x5 Zingers. It seemed like I really had to pour the coal to her to get her off the ground with the black 8" and the Zinger just would NOT lift her.

I still need to do a little tweaking on the gains, but it's gusty windy here today. GPS mode is drifty. But in Atti, she fly's great. Need to do a little work on shielding the GPS better, too...I think! Right now, I have it sitting directly on top (centered). I put the stock phantom shielding material down 1st, then the GPS on top of that. I may need to put a piece of the top, too?!?!







Your landing gear looks good.
Can you tell me where did you buy it? How much was it? How much does it weight?

Thanks
Dave
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Old May 01, 2013, 06:52 PM
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United States, IL, Cowden
Joined Mar 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWA View Post
Your landing gear looks good.
Can you tell me where did you buy it? How much was it? How much does it weight?

Thanks
Dave
Below is the link from Goodluckbuy.com. Ordered on Tuesday, shipped DHL and it was here in 3 days. For $42.00, you can't beat the price. It is not all CF. The legs are plastic, but the rest (tubes, battery tray, camera mount, etc.) are all carbon fiber. Not sure about the weight. I'm getting ready to take it off the frame and reconfigure, so I'll weigh it and get back to you. Oh, by the way, don't expect it to come with any form of directions....none...not even a couple of photo's as reference. Not even a piece of paper saying "Hey dummy. This is a landing gear." There are a ga-zillion screws and many left over CF bracket pieces for different configurations. If you're not good at assembling in the blind, this ain't for you! Just sayin'.

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/atg-unive...exacopter.html
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Old May 01, 2013, 07:04 PM
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CG Photo's Avatar
United States, CA, Fresno
Joined Feb 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stalling_aground View Post

I want to run my F450 with FPV on DJI 920kv motors at altitude (high elevation, thanks Americans!); specifically around 1200 meters, 4000 feet in the Black Rock Desert.

Has anyone got experience of doing that? If so, would I be okay running a 1045 set of props on 4S? I'm aware that I'll need to return APM and I'm prepared for that.

Thanks for any solid information you can give me.
Never ever use the DJI 1045 props, for anything that involves flying. Just toss them in the trash. They are famous for failing in flight. The 1038's work much better, are much stronger (and more flexible) and will allow the motors to run cooler because the lower angle of attack allows the prop to spin faster for a given lift as compared to the 1045. Motors are more efficient when turning slow, but they also heat up. The faster they spin the cooler they operate. 1045 props on 4s make for really hot motors and make the flight less stable do to the lighter disc loading. I have also had good success cutting 1/4" from each end of the 1038 props to make an effective 9.5" prop. 10" is a lot of prop for this weight when running on 4s.

The higher you fly (and the warmer the air) the larger the prop needs to be because the air is thinner at higher elevations. 4000' is not that high really and won't change your prop needs.
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Old May 01, 2013, 08:26 PM
DWA
John 3:16
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South Orange County,CA.
Joined Dec 2004
10,605 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDTague View Post
Below is the link from Goodluckbuy.com. Ordered on Tuesday, shipped DHL and it was here in 3 days. For $42.00, you can't beat the price. It is not all CF. The legs are plastic, but the rest (tubes, battery tray, camera mount, etc.) are all carbon fiber. Not sure about the weight. I'm getting ready to take it off the frame and reconfigure, so I'll weigh it and get back to you. Oh, by the way, don't expect it to come with any form of directions....none...not even a couple of photo's as reference. Not even a piece of paper saying "Hey dummy. This is a landing gear." There are a ga-zillion screws and many left over CF bracket pieces for different configurations. If you're not good at assembling in the blind, this ain't for you! Just sayin'.

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/atg-unive...exacopter.html
Thanks I just placed an order. I will use this on my 450 and the aeroxcraft on my 550.
I do feel a bit concerned buying from a company called "goodluckbuy". Like I will be lucky if I get it, so we wish you good luck.


Dave
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