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Old Apr 26, 2013, 01:32 PM
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EndOfDays's Avatar
Austria, Niederösterr., Eggenburg
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129min 15s flighttime with quad

edit:
Current "high-score" 129min 15sec:
129min 15sec flighttime (3 min 41 sec)


Here the current "high-score" with the "budget setup" 109min 46sec
109min 46sec flighttime (5 min 36 sec)


edit-end

Hello,

I know that this is no record, but I think the result is worth posting. So I have done a lightweight frame with 12mm carbon tubes of about 700mm <100gr. This allows to go from some long flight times, since big props are possible, and the frame is rigid enough to mount some serios motors.

So here an intermediate result (it was unfortunately not calm, and also too warm)

12mm Frame Quad big 87min 15sec (6 min 9 sec)


This was done using the following components:
12mm carbon tubes (1mm thichness) base frame (no standard centerplates, just build a cross and stiffened it up with CF and small CF pieces.
5010-14 rctimer.com motors
17x5,5 foxtechfpv.com props
20A Hobbywing Esc
Naza
4S4P Panasonic NCR18650b (770gr) 13600mAh nominal LiIon
AUW 1520gr

Here a pic of the battery:


Here a video with more conventional batteries and 18x5 props (which are a bit less effective than the 17x5,5.

73min 27 sec flight with Quad (6 min 23 sec)


to be continued ...

if you have some endurance results be welcome to post them here. As this is not a secret thread, it would be great also to get the details of the copter and the battery.

best regards

Ferdinand
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Last edited by EndOfDays; Jan 16, 2014 at 07:13 AM.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 01:49 PM
Crashing is my thing.
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Canada, BC, Vancouver
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Interesting. Does LiIon have better storage capabilities per unit weight? For your batteries:

13600mAh/770g = 17.67mAh/g

Compared to a Turnigy Nano-tech 4S 6000mAh http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html

6000mAh/623g = 9.63mAh/g

What's the catch? I've don't know anything about LiIon. I'm guessing discharge rates are really low? But with that size, you don't need a really high C rating.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 01:54 PM
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rimshotcopter's Avatar
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Aug 2009
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Amazing and Kudos!
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 01:58 PM
RC pilot by soul
Israel
Joined Apr 2005
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Ferdinand,

that is quite amazing ! can you please post photos of your frame ?
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 02:07 PM
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Austria, Niederösterr., Eggenburg
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The panasonic are 3400mAh nominal, and rated 2C max discharge. In other words, for a copter that is not flying more than 45min with standard batteries, it is not a good choice. The voltage (available) during flight is about 1-1.5 Volt lower than with a Lipo. They can be used until 2,5V a cell (under load), but the voltage drop at the end of the capacity is very sharp, it was less than a minute from 2,75V down to 2,5V. I also had to change the ESC to NiMh mode, since my first flight was aborted by the escs stopping at 3,15V a cell.

If you compare to a Lipo you should compare to the maxamps, as the have the best performance for this application, and the panasonic give about 10%more.

best regards

Ferdinand
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 02:16 PM
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Here a picture of the frame only:


here with motors and props:


best regards

Ferdinand
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 03:39 PM
Crashing is my thing.
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Canada, BC, Vancouver
Joined Mar 2012
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Any reason why you went with 4S instead of say, 6S? Higher voltage, lower the kV of the motors. More efficient?

Either way, very impressive. When's the FPV date scheduled for?
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Old Apr 27, 2013, 01:17 AM
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Austria, Niederösterr., Eggenburg
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The Motors have 360KV, so this means at most 4S for 17" or 18" props. If you find a pancake with 250kv at about 80gr (or less), please tell me ...
What I would need are four (good - handmade) motors with 250-300kv with around 40-60gr, with them I could come close to 2h flight time then.

The rctimer motors are ok, but they are not as good (efficient) as the hobbyking NX4006 with 530KV for example.

Also the Props are good, but what I would need are two 18x10 CW and two 18x10 CCW (similar to the Graupner 14x8 but CF)

That would be my wishlist ...

@MayMayDay
I was afraid of really flying that copter (fast, in windy conditions, ...) but I think it will do the job. I am planning to add a GoPro3 or a Horizon HD with a VTX and EzTiny, that should stay below 100gr. Here a video with the quad really flying (not hovering)

12mm Frame Quad big flight-test (3 min 20 sec)


best regards

Ferdinand
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Old Apr 27, 2013, 04:00 AM
Get Airborne
Sweden, Skåne County, Hofterup
Joined May 2012
310 Posts
End Of Days, thanks for sharing your fantastic flight duration!

My quad is just airborne for some 13 minutes, I am working on improvements.

To achieve this long flight time, I think good balancing is important, so all battery power can be used for thrust.

I shall now read your blog.
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Old Apr 27, 2013, 11:31 AM
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excellent and congratulations .. for low kv motors how will you find the propellers ? i mean definitely it will require atleast 20-22" prop .. where can you get that ?
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Old Apr 27, 2013, 11:33 AM
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i think you can request chinese rctimer motor manufactures for custom kv motors ..they would do it for some additional $s
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Old May 01, 2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndOfDays View Post
If you compare to a Lipo you should compare to the maxamps, as the have the best performance for this application, and the panasonic give about 10%more.
Incredible results!

Do you have any idea why they provide 'only' ( not meaning to downplay this great performance ) the 10% extra power compared to the 20% you would expect based on their specs ~ 0.20 Watts per gram vs ~ 0.25 Watts per gram). Did you notice either one of them being overrated or underrated?

Also what were the more conventional batteries used for the 73 minutes flight?
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Old May 01, 2013, 12:46 PM
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United States, CA, Fresno
Joined Feb 2013
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If you want a light camera you could get an 808 #16 keycam. They are only 18 grams. The video is not as good as the gopro but it is really good for the weight.
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Old May 01, 2013, 12:48 PM
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with 4s battery , how long i can allow my copter to stay in the air ? .. in terms of voltage . i mean the maximum discharge from 4s
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Old May 01, 2013, 01:32 PM
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Austria, Niederösterr., Eggenburg
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@harmendejong
Those were the 11000er cell from maxamps.com

@quaddynamics
For normal use I would stop at 14.00 Volt under load with a 4S LiPo. If you "know" your battery is ok, and the cells are matched you can go down to 13.00 Volt (but you will not gain a lot with this).
For LiIon you can go down to 11V under load, if everything is perfect (e.g. you go for a record) also 10V is possible (but again, this is only 1-2 min (from 11 to 10 Volt at the flight of 87 min).

If you use a LiPo, and it should last some more cycles, stop at 14V.

If you look for propeller you have to look around in the "standard" FPV/Copter online-shops (rctimer.com, foxtechfpv.com, ...) If you can make propellers yourself, you are the King.

@CG Photo
I am going for a flight with camera and Video-downlink within the next weeks, if the result is reasonable I will for sure post it. Up to now, the "payload" is 115 gr, which is Horizon HD, iftrontech stinger, CL Antenna, EzTiny, and some sort of mounting underneath the copter.

best regards

Ferdinand
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