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Old Apr 10, 2013, 11:43 AM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
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Originally Posted by More View Post
Maybe it's best to wait for a new thread relating to the 808 #16 1080p cam, as it's not the 808 #16 cam it seems slightly off topic to post there, even if the developers are the same.
...
Yes, the new 1080p camera from the #16 developer was off topic in the #16 thread, and even more so here. I only put a post there so the user base would know it was in development and should be released soon. I will be starting a new thread on it when I have more definitive information.

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Originally Posted by More View Post
wow.. just saw the preview of the 808 #16 1080p and it looks very impressive, great focus, colour, lighting, look forward to a non-fisheye (just normal) video preview to truely gague this vs the 808 #26 or the jumbo but so far, looks very good, I just hope the design is better than the jumbo hd
I should have a pre-release prototype on it's way to me within a day or two. Once I can do some initial testing, I'll start a new thread about it. It will definitively not be in an 808-style case nor have any resemblance to dozens of that variety in either form or function. So I'm hoping it will not have a number for a name to get out of that genre. Enough said about it in this thread.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 09:30 AM
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Joined Sep 2010
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Less buttons

I do understand the direction of developers and sellers pushed onto this model of camera, but IMO it would be better to have one SWITCH instead of buttons.
Also, would be the big advantage to move out the all connectors (USB, buttons) to the back side of 808 and let users to fully control the camera (take video, photo, serial shooting etc). Say it 808 KIT.

Image, that you control 808 directly from your devices using wires only - no need to solder microbuttons etc. Just connect wires from 808 to the PIC or ATMEL controllers and enjoy!

I have sent my notes several times to sellers (was unlucky to contact to pcb developers) within 2 years to adopt some ideas - no luck.

If anyone interested in this idea then I will post some pictures.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Eidos View Post
I do understand the direction of developers and sellers pushed onto this model of camera, but IMO it would be better to have one SWITCH instead of buttons.
Also, would be the big advantage to move out the all connectors (USB, buttons) to the back side of 808 and let users to fully control the camera (take video, photo, serial shooting etc). Say it 808 KIT.

Image, that you control 808 directly from your devices using wires only - no need to solder microbuttons etc. Just connect wires from 808 to the PIC or ATMEL controllers and enjoy!

I have sent my notes several times to sellers (was unlucky to contact to pcb developers) within 2 years to adopt some ideas - no luck.

If anyone interested in this idea then I will post some pictures.
I used GumPacks for a long time, and they had two switches and one button. It was fine, except that every time you switched the camera off the time was lost! The second switch was for switching between Video and Photo Mode which also worked fine. However, with some of today's keychains (#16, for example) you can take a picture WHILE you are recording a video. This wouldn't be possible if you had a switch.

If you have a switch, then I don't see how auto-power-on when you connect power should work. May I ask why you think a switch is better? I can only see disadvantages.

I agree it could be "interesting" to have the possibility to control the camera from an external device, but I don't think there is enough demand. To be profitable, I can imagine the seller would need to sell a few hundred cameras each month. I honestly don't think so many people are interested. I can imagine Bluetooth communication a better bet than some weird, non-standard, proprietary connector. Most probably lighter too!

Most people want a simple camera they can use out-of-the box. A simple method to configure the camera is also important, as is proved by the hundreds of posts over the last few years. The #16 developer was the first person to listen to all those requests and now everyone else is copying his idea! Today I can't imagine a new camera being successful if it can't be configured.

Just my 2 cents...
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 05:33 PM
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I've been tempted to get a second #16 for a backup but decided to wait and see what comes from next gen cameras. Like everybody else I've got my ideas about what should be there. In the #16 I've got upside down mode and lower fps options that weren't in the original firmware. If the next cameras don't have those I won't be buying.

Higher resolution is not on the top of my priority list. If I had to choose I'd rather have more of all the other qualities that matter in video, better color, sharper focus, better light handling, etc.

And I won't give up GUI interfaces for PC and Android. Those came from a volunteer programmer, not the hardware developer.

I can live with a little bigger case if that means better optics, more convenient configuration or better value for the dollar. More battery is fine but that's never been an issue for me.

The current #16 is a very good product. It's had a long run. Apparently it's a hard act to follow.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by flying circus View Post
I've been tempted to get a second #16 for a backup but decided to wait and see what comes from next gen cameras. Like everybody else I've got my ideas about what should be there. In the #16 I've got upside down mode and lower fps options that weren't in the original firmware. If the next cameras don't have those I won't be buying.

Higher resolution is not on the top of my priority list. If I had to choose I'd rather have more of all the other qualities that matter in video, better color, sharper focus, better light handling, etc.

And I won't give up GUI interfaces for PC and Android. Those came from a volunteer programmer, not the hardware developer.

I can live with a little bigger case if that means better optics, more convenient configuration or better value for the dollar. More battery is fine but that's never been an issue for me.

The current #16 is a very good product. It's had a long run. Apparently it's a hard act to follow.
Tom has already posted all he knows, so there's no point in speculating until someone has actually tested the new camera. I expect the new camera from the #16 developer to be up to three times heavier than the #16. I think I read somewhere 49 grams. Since it's from the #16 developer I'm sure it will have all, or most, or more of the functionality than the #16. Judging from the posted video material I also expect the video quality to be much better.

There is also no further information about the #26, so any comparison at this stage is not possible.

I'm sure there will be no Android software for the #26, at least at the beginning. I also doubt if there will be a plug-and-play setup program for the #26 using direct USB communication. This is apparently not so easy to implement at the client (camera) end. But who knows?

I, for one, am willing to write a Windows version of Nr16Setup for the new camera. I also suspect that Therau2000 may write an Android App, but we need to be asked first

You are right, the #16 is by far the most convenient and flexible 808 camera on the market. No other keychain camera has such a rich USB communication protocol. I'm not aware of another keychain camera that even has a USB setup utility!
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 06:14 PM
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Both of the new breed of 1080 cameras will have a GUI interface, with the #26 being provided by the developer like the #18. The #16 actually has several Windows GUI interfaces from several different users, but only two are linked in the #16 thread. Support for other operating systems was by just one person, however, as you said.

FWIW, the latter camera is expected to have toggles similar to the #16, but not all are expected to be in the initial firmware. And a Windows GUI programming interface similar to the one first developed for the #16 will be available close to the release of the camera... not sure about any for the other OS devices. And the developer's support and contributions to the development of the direct USB communication with the camera was instrumental in the ability to update the camera configuration via a GUI, eliminating the need for a configuration file. So lets give credit where credit is due.

The #16 still has a long life ahead of it as well. It is not being discontinued when the 1080p camera is released.

But enough said about most of this here since it's off topic in a #26 thread.



Quote:
Originally Posted by flying circus View Post
I've been tempted to get a second #16 for a backup but decided to wait and see what comes from next gen cameras. Like everybody else I've got my ideas about what should be there. In the #16 I've got upside down mode and lower fps options that weren't in the original firmware. If the next cameras don't have those I won't be buying.

Higher resolution is not on the top of my priority list. If I had to choose I'd rather have more of all the other qualities that matter in video, better color, sharper focus, better light handling, etc.

And I won't give up GUI interfaces for PC and Android. Those came from a volunteer programmer, not the hardware developer.

I can live with a little bigger case if that means better optics, more convenient configuration or better value for the dollar. More battery is fine but that's never been an issue for me.

The current #16 is a very good product. It's had a long run. Apparently it's a hard act to follow.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 07:39 PM
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The #16 represents a fine collaboration between a hardware developer and an open forum of enthusiasts with a lot of useful experience and expertise. The developer picked our brains and we were glad to let him do it and the result is arguably the best keychain camera in this region of the galaxy. So how to keep the ball rolling?

Allowing a forum with more wide ranging disussion might help. I may have been the first to suggest upside down mode. That was adopted quickly. I'm not an RC pilot but the feature is useful to some of them. If there needs to be a forum dedicated to RC pilot interests that's fine but there could also be a forum that is more cross discipline. Good ideas come from unexpected places.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying circus View Post
The #16 represents a fine collaboration between a hardware developer and an open forum of enthusiasts with a lot of useful experience and expertise. The developer picked our brains and we were glad to let him do it and the result is arguably the best keychain camera in this region of the galaxy. So how to keep the ball rolling?

Allowing a forum with more wide ranging disussion might help. I may have been the first to suggest upside down mode. That was adopted quickly. I'm not an RC pilot but the feature is useful to some of them. If there needs to be a forum dedicated to RC pilot interests that's fine but there could also be a forum that is more cross discipline. Good ideas come from unexpected places.
I agree all of this "Thats off topic because it's not R/C related etc!" is really aggravating, some people here just need to get off their high horse. In my opinion as long as what is being discussed is relevant it should not just be allowed but welcomed.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKnightFerrin View Post
I agree all of this "Thats off topic because it's not R/C related etc!" is really aggravating, some people here just need to get off their high horse. In my opinion as long as what is being discussed is relevant it should not just be allowed but welcomed.
I agree, but if it's NOT related to RC aerial photography, it is NOT relevant to the forum where this thread is located!. Look at the forum title, and the links above it. You are on an RC model web site, not a general camera web site. We've tried to help people who come here with problems or questions about the subject cameras, but on going discussion that is not related to this forum topic and this camera in particular are off topic. You are free to go to the Chit Chat thread here in the off topic discussion forum and start any topic you want. Your horse is waiting for you...
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 11:45 PM
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Old Apr 12, 2013, 03:59 AM
Graham Dyer
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This naming convention is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion, imagine if GoPro called their cameras #13, #14, #15, I mean, really!! Can they not come up with something a little bit more imaginative?
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Old Apr 12, 2013, 04:15 AM
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GoPro 1, GoPro 2, GoPro 3
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Old Apr 12, 2013, 04:20 AM
Graham Dyer
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GoPro 1, GoPro 2, GoPro 3
LOL, funny that (at least they versions, GoPro being the name)
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Old Apr 12, 2013, 10:36 AM
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This naming convention is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion, imagine if GoPro called their cameras #13, #14, #15, I mean, really!! Can they not come up with something a little bit more imaginative?
Names would help. The "problem" originated 2-3 years ago when a VGA camera was made in the "808 keyfob" case design. Then, dozens of other developers copied the case, or possibly got the same case from the same source, with different camera circuitry inside. These all come from China where copying is an art form, with little or no control for trademarks, etc. It was impossible to identify what camera was which in forums like this when people had questions about camera function, and the naming of each one by number was originated by Chuck Lohr to identify each one according to it's circuit design, capabilities, etc. This was a convenient and simple way for users to refer to them. Now there are a couple dozen with the exact same case! The numbering system still works for all the ones with the exact same "808" case design, though this #26 has a physically larger version of the case. I thought for that reason it might not be assigned a number by Chuck Lohr, but it was, and that's the easiest way to refer to this one now.

FWIW, the 1080 camera coming from the #16 developer will have a new and very definitive case design to distinguish it from the others. I'm hoping it will be given an actual name by the developer for the same reason.
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Old Apr 12, 2013, 11:06 AM
Graham Dyer
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I hope too, "hashtag sixteen" sounds just plain silly! Same for "hashtag twentysix". If I post on Twitter it'll be ##26...
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