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Old Mar 09, 2013, 08:22 PM
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Knoll53's Avatar
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Horten 9-V1

Original build log here. Flight tested CG is at 10" behind the nose.

With the slope season coming up, this old veteran deserves it's own thread. When the winds pick up, this one should be some fun.

Today found very light conditions so took the opportunity to test the bungee launch. With the forward tow hook, the launch angle is very flat...Scary.... I don't like being that close to the ground on launch.

Tried to soar too in the 2nd video and discovered the stall speed, which is always terrifying with a Horten. Got lucky this time.

Kent

Horten 9-V-1....bungee launch (1 min 23 sec)



Edit: the stall is at 4:55

Horten 9-V1....Very light conditions (0 min 0 sec)
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 08:48 PM
KlonWarz
Joined Dec 2012
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1st vid... Ouch! landing is a real hit!
...there is no dip in the launch....
Nice wing where is the plan?
thank you
rustycase

edit
can the chord-form be changed to eliminate/moderate the need for up elevator??? should it be changed?
..or r u trying to be a purist to the Horten design? can I axe?

manatee is fatwing, right?
nice place to stow the gear???
a fat Horten?
(gosh that needs to be translated!)

CF tubes, strips, tow, just pricey for me... need Best source w/o exorbitant shipping fee or maybe use softwood/boxwood?

Plenty questions! lol
Y'all Nurflugel volks did not yet build a fremdartig nurflugel thread...

tnx
rc

edit... lol... fettflugel
:-)
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 09:35 PM
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yes, Manatee is very fat and slow.

The landings are on to dry sand. Not as hard as you might think.

I've got some ideas to improve the up elevator response on the H9-V1. The center flap is fixed and can be adjusted....like a trim setting. So next time I'll dial in some reflex at that flap. Either way, the little flaps don't do much. I'm just going to have to learn how to do a legitimate landing approach.

Currently, with flaps deployed, it does not maneuver very well. I think that the elevons are stalling. I may move the CG back again. Need to think and plan a bit.

Kent
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Old Mar 09, 2013, 10:43 PM
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What design V1/2? Gishleri had a fairly decent IX Sloper.
Beyond that, ever considered one of the Hi Perf Stunt Kites ?
Surprisingly capable and entertaining. Plus they typically land better :-0
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 04:51 AM
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[QUOTE=Bare;24375952]What design V1/2? Gishleri had a fairly decent IX Sloper.
I had a set of plans for one of these before I found rcg.What wasn't mentioned in the sales blurb was the foam outer wing,which at that time I had no experience with.Iirc the wing was to be cut with twist at the tip template.
Anyway I built the centre section,top/ bottom half method.You could hardly call it scale,spent a lot of time adding scale parts;scrapped it when I saw the stuff available elsewhere.
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 11:35 AM
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Thinking about the yesterday's flying all at minimum sink, the elevons were deflected way up just to keep the plane in the air. Then when up elevator was fed in for landings or to compensate for flaps, they became ineffective. Next time I'll add in some reflex with the center flaps and and move the CG back. It's always scary to move the CG back, but I think that the evidence is there to start inching the CG back.

Kent
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Old Mar 10, 2013, 11:45 AM
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoll53 View Post
Thinking about the yesterday's flying all at minimum sink, the elevons were deflected way up just to keep the plane in the air. Then when up elevator was fed in for landings or to compensate for flaps, they became ineffective. Next time I'll add in some reflex with the center flaps and and move the CG back. It's always scary to move the CG back, but I think that the evidence is there to start inching the CG back.
Yep, sounds like nose heavy.

Andrés
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 01:02 PM
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I did add in some reflex at the center flaps and moved the CG back. The inner flaps were still at the original airfoil. It flew much better with the rearward CG. Better sink rate and more responsive elevator, but the tip stall was worse than ever. Very abrupt and straight down spinning around the stalled tip.

The last 3 times flying with this glider have been in light wind conditions, so I was flying at minimum sink and have stalled each time out. So I've got a new rule. Don't fly this one slow.

Also, I don't think that I did myself any favors by using the SD7037 airfoil. I should have chosen an airfoil with a little reflex.

Next time out, I will trim both flaps up to provide some reflex and move the CG forward to the last known safe (more or less) position. I will adjust the flap trim so that the elevons are not kicked up when flying at best glide. That should return the glider to a stable, although somewhat less efficient, platform. Then when the winds pick up, just remove the up trim in the flaps and move.........

Kent
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Old Mar 11, 2013, 05:49 PM
KlonWarz
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Kent, I was out surfing....

Try the wikipedia entry for 'Glaser-Dirks DG-300'...
there is a bit in there about 'the wing is blown on the underside', and something about 900 holes! lol
Point being, if you are less than pleased with your airfoil, perhaps you might give this mod a try???
Heck, I dunno... I'm just a newbie!
:-)
rc
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 05:18 PM
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No more tears......

Here's my to do list after Monday's flight.
­
  1. Add in reflex to both inner and center flaps to take some of the load off of the elevons.
  2. ­ Mechanically change the inner flaps to allow some up elevator and add mixing to the elevator. Reduce the max. flap deflection for landing to about 45 degrees. This should allow for some up elevator.
  3. ­ Move CG forward
­ It worked ! Reflex is now my best friend.... Even in very very light lift (seagull was flapping and turkey vulture was in full float mode) the newly tuned Horten was able to soar and without a hint of a stall. It IS still possible to stall with up elevator ( see landing ) but not while at minimum sink. All good news. Might even try to thermal this one now. As long as there are no bad habits, there's nothing to lose. Although the CG has been moved forward, I can't really say that the sink rate is any worse or maybe I'm just drunk with delight that it is not stalling.

I might paint this one now that it is flying good. Anyone have a good idea for a "scheme"?

Kent

Horten 9 - V1.....Very very light conditions (0 min 0 sec)
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 09:35 PM
KlonWarz
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color scheme?

bright yellow on top, emblem on starboard wing.
Belly-side black with yellow emblem on starboard wing.

I really enjoy watching your vids... seeing more is better! :-)
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 09:45 PM
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color scheme?

bright yellow on top, emblem on starboard wing.
Belly-side black with yellow emblem on starboard wing.
Ah...Er....OK
Can you show me?
Do you have access to a paint program?

Kent
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Old Mar 13, 2013, 10:19 PM
KlonWarz
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LOL

OK, Kent, here's how I got to that magnificent color selection... :-)

I AM a newbie, and I actually do read more than ask questions... :-)

Somewhere along the line, and more than a few places, more knowledgeable fellows than myself noted that a brightly colored model looks best. OK, I'll go for that.

California Orange is the best hi-vis color, but it's got yellow and blue pigments, and it's relatively close to red... and red shows up as black when off at a distance.
SO, nice bright Canary Yellow for the top, and close-up static viewing.

It just so happens that basic Black shows up well against a sky of blue, or with clouds.

A differential between the two colors should be beneficial when involved in aerobatic maneuvers...

Personally I would think it wiser to use an American five point star as an emblem, as opposed to an iron cross or swastika, simply to avoid pc discussions on the beach, and elsewhere...

If that large emblem were painted in contrast on the top, and bottom of the starboard wing, it would also lend a clue to orientation when involved in maneuvers...

OR, you could do as a fine British chap recently did with his model jet, and painted it in an excellent rendition of the Luftwaffe camouflage paint colours.... magnificent to look at in a static display of his workmanship... and it disappeared in the sky! (as intended)

:-)

...but I am sure you know far better than I !
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Old Mar 14, 2013, 10:56 AM
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Good Rusty, we are on the same page, although I'm not much of an Emblem guy.

I have limited interest in finishing and am looking for some thing simple. I'll cut a mask or two, but that's about it.

Attached is what I came up with last night. Still chewing on this one.

Kent
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