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Old Mar 06, 2013, 09:07 PM
Obeying the law of gravity
Jeremy Kamutzki's Avatar
Canada, ON, Cambridge
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 09:30 PM
Obeying the law of gravity
Jeremy Kamutzki's Avatar
Canada, ON, Cambridge
Joined Jul 2011
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So, this may be a dumb question, but what is the best way to do the right side of the wing? cause only the left is on the plans. How is it normally done?
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 09:45 PM
Visitor from Reality
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Joined Dec 1996
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Only one wing panel - now that is not a lot of fun.

I've recollections of reading about folk dampening such a plan with thin oil, so that the paper becomes translucent and you get the other side by flipping it over, but that always sounded dubious. For one, dampening the plan could cause the paper to expand, thus leading to odd wing panel lengths.

What you could try to build the right panel is to pin the ribs over their plan positions, but with their LE at the plan's TE - hope that makes sense. Then add the other parts reversed - TE, LE and place the tip bow flipped end for end. A certain degree of measurement and eyeballing to build the ailerons could be required, depending on how the ribs and such are cut out.

D
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 09:51 PM
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Joker 53150's Avatar
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Why not just take the plans to Kinkos or similar place and have the plans scanned, flipped, and printed? I assume they can so that easily enough
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 10:35 AM
Obeying the law of gravity
Jeremy Kamutzki's Avatar
Canada, ON, Cambridge
Joined Jul 2011
494 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
Only one wing panel - now that is not a lot of fun.

I've recollections of reading about folk dampening such a plan with thin oil, so that the paper becomes translucent and you get the other side by flipping it over, but that always sounded dubious. For one, dampening the plan could cause the paper to expand, thus leading to odd wing panel lengths.

What you could try to build the right panel is to pin the ribs over their plan positions, but with their LE at the plan's TE - hope that makes sense. Then add the other parts reversed - TE, LE and place the tip bow flipped end for end. A certain degree of measurement and eyeballing to build the ailerons could be required, depending on how the ribs and such are cut out.

D
Yeah, that may work. I could build the left side first, and then use that to check that the right side is correct. As far as the aileron, I could build the left one then use it as a template for the right probably.

Also, joker, what's kinkos? We have staples, which might be able to do it, or my dad may have a scanner large enough at his office.
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 11:03 AM
Visitor from Reality
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When you're building off a plan, use the plan to set the rib spacing and thus the length of the panel. However - use the ribs, not the drawn positions, to position the spars, LE and TE.

I've seen a lot of older magazine plans where one full plan was drawn, then the opposite hand panel's parts that didn't match in mirror image were drawn with dotted or dashed lines. The rib spacing, unless drawn otherwise, would be the same in both panels.

It looked a little cross-eyed at first, but it worked and also got around that old fault of wing panel drawings being a little different in length. With Sig's established quality, am surprised that they didn't at least do something like that, though it could be confusing if you'd not seen its likes before. With CAD drawn plans, I see no reason to not include both sides, other than cheapskating.

Kinko's rides along with Fedex these days. A little asking around could help, many of the office and shipping supply stores have printing capability, but it seems to vary and you'd need to talk to a staff member who knows how to use it properly to ascertain if you could do this. Let's say I've seen the odd staffer who wasn't too familiar with their equipment...

As to your father's office scanner, you don't actually need to scan the whole plan, just the wing panel.

If you could print out a scan on thin paper, you may be able to flip it over and see the drawing well enough to work on the backside of the paper. Scans and printers have been known to slightly alter print-outs, so check the panel length carefully if you go that route.

Idle thought - email Sig, tell them you bought this kit and there's only one wing panel in the plan. There could be a 'missing' one here. Sig have always been pretty good over responding to emails in my experience, you might get lucky. Won't cost you anythign to try!

D
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 11:33 AM
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This is an "old school" kit. The technique I was taught is to rub cooking oil on the plan and flip it over. It does work just fine, but it sure makes the plan look messy and ugly.
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Kamutzki View Post
Yeah, that may work. I could build the left side first, and then use that to check that the right side is correct. As far as the aileron, I could build the left one then use it as a template for the right probably.

Also, joker, what's kinkos? We have staples, which might be able to do it, or my dad may have a scanner large enough at his office.
It's just a place that specializes in copies, but Staples could probably do it as well. As another has mentioned, make sure the copy comes out the same size!
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 01:06 PM
Visitor from Reality
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Joined Dec 1996
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Originally Posted by CV440pilot View Post
This is an "old school" kit. The technique I was taught is to rub cooking oil on the plan and flip it over. It does work just fine, but it sure makes the plan look messy and ugly.
Cooking oil - that's worth remembering. Best done on a copy of the kit plan wing area, so it could be tossed after use, I suspect.

Not that it matters here, but even though this kit has been around a long while, it sounds like it's had a warm-over, if not a complete work-over. Mine, from around six years ago, had all its parts die-cut and a hand drawn plan with both wing panels.

If anyone is getting ideas here, but doesn't fancy messing with a kit, one of England's top scale designers published a plan of the clipwing Cub at 1/6th a couple of years ago - http://www.trapletshop.com/gb/p/1165...-piper-j-3-cub
It was inspired by a clubmate of his building Sig's kit, oddly enough. Unfortunately, I don't have the attendant magazine issues, but Phil Kent's designs are all good stuff.

D
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 03:27 PM
Obeying the law of gravity
Jeremy Kamutzki's Avatar
Canada, ON, Cambridge
Joined Jul 2011
494 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
When you're building off a plan, use the plan to set the rib spacing and thus the length of the panel. However - use the ribs, not the drawn positions, to position the spars, LE and TE.

I've seen a lot of older magazine plans where one full plan was drawn, then the opposite hand panel's parts that didn't match in mirror image were drawn with dotted or dashed lines. The rib spacing, unless drawn otherwise, would be the same in both panels.

It looked a little cross-eyed at first, but it worked and also got around that old fault of wing panel drawings being a little different in length. With Sig's established quality, am surprised that they didn't at least do something like that, though it could be confusing if you'd not seen its likes before. With CAD drawn plans, I see no reason to not include both sides, other than cheapskating.

Kinko's rides along with Fedex these days. A little asking around could help, many of the office and shipping supply stores have printing capability, but it seems to vary and you'd need to talk to a staff member who knows how to use it properly to ascertain if you could do this. Let's say I've seen the odd staffer who wasn't too familiar with their equipment...

As to your father's office scanner, you don't actually need to scan the whole plan, just the wing panel.

If you could print out a scan on thin paper, you may be able to flip it over and see the drawing well enough to work on the backside of the paper. Scans and printers have been known to slightly alter print-outs, so check the panel length carefully if you go that route.

Idle thought - email Sig, tell them you bought this kit and there's only one wing panel in the plan. There could be a 'missing' one here. Sig have always been pretty good over responding to emails in my experience, you might get lucky. Won't cost you anythign to try!

D
OK. I will try contacting SIG and see what they say. If I can't get both wing panels, I will just build the left and use that and flipping the pannel 180 degrees and I should be able to do it fine, with a bit of measuring.
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 07:11 PM
Obeying the law of gravity
Jeremy Kamutzki's Avatar
Canada, ON, Cambridge
Joined Jul 2011
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OK, just totally ignore everything I said about not having the second (right) wing panel. It's there on the bottom left of the plans. The left panel is on the top right.

What happened is as follows. I read the manual before unrolling the plans, so I knew I needed the wing panel to work on. So, After unrolling/uncurling the plans, I immediately folded them in half several times because I hate how hard it is to work with them when they curl because they were rolled up. I totally missed the right wing panel and only saw the left, and the right panel isn't visible the way I have the plans folded. So, I don't have to worry about that.
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 08:39 PM
Obeying the law of gravity
Jeremy Kamutzki's Avatar
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Alright, I have an important question about the two spars that run through the main wing ribs. The manual actually never says to glue the ribs to these, but they do say to glue the ribs to the leading and trailing edges. This doesn't make sense to me, as I'm sure that the spars would have to be glued to the ribs. Can anyone who's built this clarify for me? Do i glue the front and rear spars running through the ribs to the ribs, and is it before or after gluing them to the leading and trailing edges? Thanks
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Kamutzki View Post
Alright, I have an important question about the two spars that run through the main wing ribs. The manual actually never says to glue the ribs to these, but they do say to glue the ribs to the leading and trailing edges. This doesn't make sense to me, as I'm sure that the spars would have to be glued to the ribs. Can anyone who's built this clarify for me? Do i glue the front and rear spars running through the ribs to the ribs, and is it before or after gluing them to the leading and trailing edges? Thanks
That sounds bizarre! I've never heard of a model with the spars not glued to the ribs, or vice versa, if that makes any more sense.

Dug up photos of my build in the structural phase. Yes, you'll slip the ribs over the main two spars as they're in the centre of each rib, not on the surface - for better scale-like appearance. But mine were glued in place for sure.

Though a little vague due to time, I'd have slipped the ribs over the main spars, then placed the lot over the plan, added the LE and TE, then run woodworking glue into the joint between each rib and spar. Use a toothpick or similar to run the glue into the join, then push the rib a tiny bit sideways each way to spread the glue into the wood to wood area between rib and spar. You'd have to glue each rib to the spar at both spars at once, if that makes sense.

D

Hope that helps
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 11:26 PM
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once you have the ribs spread out and pined in place on the plans, making shure that they are strait up and down, take and put a couple drops of thin CA on the spars at each rib!

probably confusing as they can't be glued till all ribs are in place! don't get the ribs and sub ribs mixed up! make shure that the riblets and ribs that have the joining slots are at the center!

and that the riblits aren't unidirectional! there is a top and bottom!
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 06:57 AM
Obeying the law of gravity
Jeremy Kamutzki's Avatar
Canada, ON, Cambridge
Joined Jul 2011
494 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
That sounds bizarre! I've never heard of a model with the spars not glued to the ribs, or vice versa, if that makes any more sense.

Dug up photos of my build in the structural phase. Yes, you'll slip the ribs over the main two spars as they're in the centre of each rib, not on the surface - for better scale-like appearance. But mine were glued in place for sure.

Though a little vague due to time, I'd have slipped the ribs over the main spars, then placed the lot over the plan, added the LE and TE, then run woodworking glue into the joint between each rib and spar. Use a toothpick or similar to run the glue into the join, then push the rib a tiny bit sideways each way to spread the glue into the wood to wood area between rib and spar. You'd have to glue each rib to the spar at both spars at once, if that makes sense.

D

Hope that helps
Ok, great. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I've noticed you drilled holes in the front edge of your ribs. Was that to remove weight?
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