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Old Mar 05, 2013, 03:21 PM
I hate waiting for parts
Mike_Then's Avatar
United States, NC, Garner
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Question
Opinion about using built-in BEC on ICE 100

I just bought and received a Chaos 600 heli. I also have a Castle ICE 100 ESC on the way for it. I was planning on using the BEC built into the ESC to power the on-board equipment but the general consensus is that using the BEC built into an ESC is a bad idea for a 600-class heli.

The BEC will be driving 4 x digital servos (3 x cyclic and 1 x tail) a gyro, and receiver. When looking at the specs for the gyro and receiver, they are talking milliamps and the two added together barely equal 1/2 amp. I know that digital servos can draw a lot of current when stressed but this will be a sport-flying (not stick-banging) heli until it's installed in a scale fuselage later this year.

So how does Castle feel about this? I'm not asking you guys to be responsible or anything like that; just wanted your opinion on using the BEC built into the ICE ESCs for a 600-class heli.
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Old Mar 05, 2013, 06:10 PM
A man with too many toys
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For a 550 size heli or larger you will need to get a CC BEC PRO.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 07:47 AM
I hate waiting for parts
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Originally Posted by RC Man View Post
For a 550 size heli or larger you will need to get a CC BEC PRO.
A CC BEC Pro is max of 20 amps. I like a little overhead just like the next guy but isn't 20 amps an extreme amount of overkill? The BEC in my T-Rex 600e is an Align BEC and that has a max of 6A. That BEC is driving 4 servos, gyro, receiver, and a light system. Granted that BEC is being powered by a separate battery but I can't imagine all that equipment is even coming close to 6A.

If I went with a CC BEC, and powered it off my existing flight battery, I'm limited to 5A just like the BEC built into the ESC. The advantage of course is that the CC BEC will allow for a 10A peak. But again, I can't imagine that equipment pulling anything close to that.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or ungrateful for the reply; I'm just trying to understand and weight the pros/cons of buying yet another piece of equipment vs. using what I already have.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 10:47 AM
nsg
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The built-in ICE 100 BEC is about 3A sustained. The 5A they claim is either 2-3s or peak, not sure which. (Yes, I know this isn't quite what their specs say, but this is a known fact. Their support will admit to this if grilled properly).
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 11:09 AM
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I called and spoke with them this morning. Very nice and helpful as always. They said it depends on what the max amp rating is for the servos. Which, of course, isn't a listed spec. Still doing some research.
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Old Mar 07, 2013, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
I called and spoke with them this morning. Very nice and helpful as always. They said it depends on what the max amp rating is for the servos. Which, of course, isn't a listed spec. Still doing some research.
http://castlecreations.com/support/helisetups.html

Not sure who you talk to but this is my recommendation ...
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Clintstone View Post
http://castlecreations.com/support/helisetups.html

Not sure who you talk to but this is my recommendation ...
Hi Clint, the gentleman I spoke with was nice and helpful - which has always been my experience when calling Castle - but my apologies I don't remember his name. His advice was that it really depended on the max amp rating of the servos. Which I'm having a problem finding of course. Thanks for the link; if you and Castle as a whole feel that the BEC built into the ICE 100 is NOT sufficient for a 600-class helicopter, then I'll go with the CC BEC that I am pulling out of another airplane.

I know that the CC BEC can only provide a maximum of 5A sustained when powered with a 6s battery. But if I power it with a 2s LiPo then I can get a maximum of 7A sustained. Looks like that will suit my needs; thanks for the clarification.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
Hi Clint, the gentleman I spoke with was nice and helpful - which has always been my experience when calling Castle - but my apologies I don't remember his name. His advice was that it really depended on the max amp rating of the servos. Which I'm having a problem finding of course. Thanks for the link; if you and Castle as a whole feel that the BEC built into the ICE 100 is NOT sufficient for a 600-class helicopter, then I'll go with the CC BEC that I am pulling out of another airplane.

I know that the CC BEC can only provide a maximum of 5A sustained when powered with a 6s battery. But if I power it with a 2s LiPo then I can get a maximum of 7A sustained. Looks like that will suit my needs; thanks for the clarification.
Mike, for clarity I wanted to recommend the CC BEC PRO over the CC BEC ...

Recommended ESCs for Heli Setups

Caution: The internal Phoenix Ice BEC is not recommended on Helis with blades larger than 425mm. Helis larger than the Trex 500 need an external BEC as the larger servos pull in excess of 2 amps each which will put the internal Phoenix Ice BEC over the 5 amp peak limit rating. The CC BEC PRO is the best solution Castle offers for these larger models.

Some of the newer servos and/or firmware for the 500 size Align Helis and others may be more load than the Ice Internal BEC can supply.
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 01:31 PM
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Hi Clint, yup, I saw that the CC BEC Pro was recommended. But I have to ask - not because I'm being cheap but because I'm trying to use what I already have: I currently use the Align RCE-B6X 6A BEC in my T-Rex 600e ESP (mounted in a scale fuselage). That BEC is driving 3 x cyclic servos, 1 x tail servo, gyro, receiver, and a light system. The BEC is connected to a 2s 1900 LiPo pack. The CC BEC, if powered by the same 2s LiPo pack, is rated for 7A continuous... one more amp than the Align BEC. Not only that, according to the product specs, it should also provide 3 more amps at peak. If the Align 6A BEC is powering all that equipment with no problem, shouldn't a CC BEC with more overhead (assuming it's powered by a 2s LiPo pack) be able to do the same?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, cheap, or unappreciative of your advice... I'm just trying to understand as well as use whatever I already have if possible. I very much appreciate your responses thus far and look forward to your response to my inquiry above. Thank you!
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
Hi Clint, yup, I saw that the CC BEC Pro was recommended. But I have to ask - not because I'm being cheap but because I'm trying to use what I already have: I currently use the Align RCE-B6X 6A BEC in my T-Rex 600e ESP (mounted in a scale fuselage). That BEC is driving 3 x cyclic servos, 1 x tail servo, gyro, receiver, and a light system. The BEC is connected to a 2s 1900 LiPo pack. The CC BEC, if powered by the same 2s LiPo pack, is rated for 7A continuous... one more amp than the Align BEC. Not only that, according to the product specs, it should also provide 3 more amps at peak. If the Align 6A BEC is powering all that equipment with no problem, shouldn't a CC BEC with more overhead (assuming it's powered by a 2s LiPo pack) be able to do the same?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, cheap, or unappreciative of your advice... I'm just trying to understand as well as use whatever I already have if possible. I very much appreciate your responses thus far and look forward to your response to my inquiry above. Thank you!
Mike please email clint@castlecreations.com
Please include your entire setup... servos ( current draw specs ) other equipment ( FBL system )
Thanks very much... I will be looking forward to your email... My recommendation is based more on experience than calculated loads of your particular setup... The CC BEC just doesn't quite cut it on the Align servos in a 550 to 600 size Heli... as for the ratings on the Align BEC ... not sure how accurate that one is... When we developed the Talon BEC we tested several Align BECs and they were all rated very modest...
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Old Mar 08, 2013, 03:39 PM
I hate waiting for parts
Mike_Then's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintstone View Post
Mike please email clint@castlecreations.com
Please include your entire setup... servos ( current draw specs ) other equipment ( FBL system )
Thanks very much... I will be looking forward to your email... My recommendation is based more on experience than calculated loads of your particular setup... The CC BEC just doesn't quite cut it on the Align servos in a 550 to 600 size Heli... as for the ratings on the Align BEC ... not sure how accurate that one is... When we developed the Talon BEC we tested several Align BECs and they were all rated very modest...
Will do Clint... thanks!
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Old Mar 15, 2013, 03:16 PM
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Hi,
For whatever it can be worth to compare:

I use ICE 100 with the BEC in use. I use it with 5 digital servos in a Sebart Win S 50E plane (F3A plane). 3 digital Futaba S9551 servos (on ailerons and rudder) and two JR DS3717HV servos (for the elevator halves). I have the BEC set to 6 volt since receiver Futaba R6008HS (set to High speed mode) and all servos can handle 6 volt. I have been flying with this about 650 flights so far and not any problem at all. My ICE 100 gets little hotter then handwarm in summer, in flight.
Power produced at full throttle in air (according to ICE 100 log) is 1670 watt and max amp is 70 amp then. Average temp of ESC (according to ICE 100 log) in summer, in flight, has been max 121 F (50 Celsius) and average 104 F (40 Celsius).
I have used 6 cells Desire Power V8 35C 5200 mAh Lipo and also Turnigy 6 cell 45C 5000 mAh LiPo. Motor is Hacker A50-16S V2 with APC electric 17x10 prop.

/Bo
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