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Old Jul 10, 2013, 11:36 PM
Fly Fast, Fly Hard, Fly Fun
rexless's Avatar
Canada, BC
Joined Apr 2012
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That's a great maiden flight video...your self level seems very smooth and there's some great flying going on!

I use a vice to get things closer to straight, then a regular metal hammer and a smooth cement floor to straighten my arms out. I keep a number of spare motors on hand.
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 01:39 AM
bobepine's Avatar
Joined Jun 2011
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Yes, nice maiden flight, indeed.

To remove the motor shaft, the easiest is to drill a hole in a piece of wood. Hole has to be big enough for the shaft and the C clip through. Place the motor over the hole and hit the top of the shaft with a hammer. Keep hitting harder and harder until it the shaft moves. Once it's unstuck, you no not need to hit the shaft as hard.

Best,
Chris
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 11:49 AM
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microrcfiend's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Sheffield
Joined Jun 2012
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Thanks for the prompt answer guys, I had read it was bad to hammer them out but also that it was easy on some motors.

Tapped it a bit harder with the rawhide mallet and out it slid. I had to tap the new one in to fully remove the old shaft but after the first was done, the remaining 3 were fitted before my coffee went cold. Much easier than I first expected, not bad at all.

The second one I took apart I noticed a small plastic washer on the shaft between the top of the bell and the top bearing on the stator. The first moves ok still without one so left it as is.
When I opened the other two motors, they did not have the washer at all. Does that little guy really matter much? They spin smooth but still need to mount them back up and test

I had to really go to town with the rawhide jewellery hammer to get the legs to relinquish their twist but managed to get pretty close, this actually took more time than the motors for me.

It would be beyond awesome if the legs could be removed without un-soldering the escs via a gap to slide the wire out. I realize this would make them possibly weaker but the bend so easy anyway I can't see a small gap at the far side under the center plate for the wires to slide though being a big issue. A bolt either side of the leg would negate the need for a center bolt and prevent the sideways movement.

Then we could have entire spare arms to plug and play in the field like Rexless mentioned a couple posts back. I always have spare fully assembled tails for my Super CP. Literally 30 seconds and your good to go again.

You would sell more, we could fly more. win win no? Am I missing something?
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 12:21 PM
Fly Fast, Fly Hard, Fly Fun
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Canada, BC
Joined Apr 2012
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I know some frown on it, but on my quads I always put plugs between the ESC and Power Distribution Board. Downtime is a real downer (self-groan ) and I found that one little change made it so much faster to do repairs without having to grab a soldering gun all the time. I've yet to experience any problems with the extra connectors. Sometimes I used the same size Chris uses, other times I've used smaller ones. More failure points but more convenience wins for me. YMMV
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 01:30 PM
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microrcfiend's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Sheffield
Joined Jun 2012
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I'd very much like to hear Chris's opinion on the slit approach in the leg before adding more possible points of failure but I agree it's a close second. Speed or repair isn't that bad but being able to do most change outs in the field is essential if we really are to push the limits of these quads and our learning curves.

Originally I had a couple motors planned as spares but decided to see how they performed first. Will be making another order tomorrow, they perform well.

Is it preferred to cut the shafts down or add a plastic spacer to add strength to that weak spot?

Lastly, can someone post some settings to allow some flips please? More yaw is needed but how far to push the other settings please?
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 08:38 PM
Dreamer
Australia, TAS, Memana
Joined Aug 2004
2,208 Posts
Cut the shafts off until the collets sit flat down on the motor bell. Wrap the motor in masking tape to stop any particles entering.. or push a piece of cardboard onto the motor shaft to act as a guard ... a quick swipe with a cut off wheel in an angle grinder and you are done. If you are quick there is very little heat generated.
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 09:18 PM
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Joined Jun 2012
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When I tried to give it a test hover the shafts looked all bent until I realized that of course the soft prop holders got squished too when I landed on my head. I fitted the ones from my kk2 quad and they are slightly lower profile and fit deeper too. Is there a quality alternative anyone can recommend for these?

As a test I pushed one shaft lower so the c clip was sticking proud through the hole in the leg so the prop adapter sat flush and it seemed to work ok. Is it likely to shift in flight unless the clip is sat flush against the bottom bearing?

Would you mind sharing your settings for acro Kaz? A screenshot would be really helpful if it's not too much of a hassle.

I'm just wanting to make it aggressive enough to flip because on the vid Chris made for me he specifically says "do not try to flip it". Fair enough but what do I need to enable flips without making it all crazy violent? I'd like a running start at some flips so i'm not grounded before I can get more shafts and prop adapters, didn't buy this thing for gentle circuits

When I first tested it on the vid I posted it seemed really twitchy on settings it came with so I added some positive expo and dropped the rates in my tx. Is there a disadvantage to adding expo via tx rather than the board?

Thanks
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Old Jul 11, 2013, 09:39 PM
Dreamer
Australia, TAS, Memana
Joined Aug 2004
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Hey microrcfiend, I am no expert on these things ........
Dialing in expo on your RC transmitter seems to work fine. Quads will flip fine in acro mode, and I am flying the default settings as sent from Chris. Wind up the stick scaling on roll and pitch, and expo to make it smooth around neutral.
Pushing the shafts down until the collet is flat on the bell will not work as the bell will come off the motor !!!. Adding a piece of tube between the bottom clip and the bottom motor bearing might work though.

Mark
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 06:05 AM
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Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microrcfiend View Post
When I tried to give it a test hover the shafts looked all bent until I realized that of course the soft prop holders got squished too when I landed on my head. I fitted the ones from my kk2 quad and they are slightly lower profile and fit deeper too. Is there a quality alternative anyone can recommend for these?

As a test I pushed one shaft lower so the c clip was sticking proud through the hole in the leg so the prop adapter sat flush and it seemed to work ok. Is it likely to shift in flight unless the clip is sat flush against the bottom bearing?

Would you mind sharing your settings for acro Kaz? A screenshot would be really helpful if it's not too much of a hassle.

I'm just wanting to make it aggressive enough to flip because on the vid Chris made for me he specifically says "do not try to flip it". Fair enough but what do I need to enable flips without making it all crazy violent? I'd like a running start at some flips so i'm not grounded before I can get more shafts and prop adapters, didn't buy this thing for gentle circuits

When I first tested it on the vid I posted it seemed really twitchy on settings it came with so I added some positive expo and dropped the rates in my tx. Is there a disadvantage to adding expo via tx rather than the board?

Thanks
Hi,

If you found it twitchy and had to lower the rates, then I highly recommend you practice some more before you try flips. The reason for this is the rates I put in there are already quite low, hence why I warned you against trying flips with these settings. The flip rate will be too slow and you will crash it, unless you initiated a flip with a whole lot of altitude. And even then, you may hit the ground before you come full circle.

That being said, in order to pull flips with the quad, you will need to increase the rates which will make the quad far more twitchy than it was before you decreased the rates. However, judging from the video you posted, I think you have the skills to fly higher rates. Your issue seems to be with the immediate response at center stick. You can use expo to help that, but I personally think it is better to train your thumbs instead if you plan on learning acrobatics. Adding expo to tame center stick is detrimental to advanced acrobatics and, as such, getting used to more expo than is needed is a bad habit to get into. This is a personal opinion, by the way. Other pilots may have a different opinion. My opinion is based on the fact that I am able to combine different acrobatic moves far more rapidly if they can be executed close to center stick, which is not achievable with too much expo. Being able to do moves closer to center stick requires less stick travel which translates to a quicker response.

It is not recommended to use your radio to set expo and rates. It is better to do this in the Multiwii GUI. This is because rates and expo changes set in the GUI have a more "connected" feel to them in flight.

There are two advantages to using your radio to make such changes. First, you can make changes in the field without connecting to a computer. This makes it easier to quickly set the flying characteristics to your liking. You can also reduce the rates if, say, a less skilled friend wants to try your quad. The other advantage is for use of dual rates. Many pilots like to have high rates and low rates programmed at the flick of a switch. I used to use dual rates but I don't do that anymore. It caused a crash or two when I forgot to switch to high rates to do flips. Many people enjoy using dual rates, nonetheless.

Regarding modifying the design to make removing arms easier, I will think about it. You know, though, with a good soldering station I can remove or install an ESC (solder to the distro board) in less than 2 minutes. So for my own personal use, I really like the way I build them now. Keeps the ESC wires very short, looks clean and it's lighter.

Best,
Chris
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 06:59 AM
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Thanks for the answers Chris, advice duly noted.I'm still looking for some actual figures to enable flips at moderate speeds. The gains feel fine, just the rates I believe need tweaking.

I have no problem dialing in expo and adding my rates after but there is absolutely no point in getting used to this quad at rates that don't allow at least average paced flips, at all. 'Twitchy' meant center stick yes, I had no issue with full rates as you left it in a short flight last night but left the 30% expo to tame the center stick. I may move away from expo eventually but have no problem on the sim learning 3D with helis with it and feel it adds a lot of flexibility where a dual rates switch would not.

I also understand that expo is a personal thing and where I hate it on RC cars and never used it, I do in fact love it dearly on cp helicopters and am a firm devotee. It's impossible for me to fly slow and smooth and still allow enough authority to do aggressive 3D without expo and I have no issue with the non linear response or having to move the sticks further to flip. I will make a point of adding on the board if possible though rather than tx.

What I don't want is to try to flip it and it fight me, i'd rather break a few props at low altitude and get my hands dirty, than dump it on it';s head because it's not nimble enough or flips 4 rotations before I can react.

As for the arms, Yup but soldering isn't an option in the middle of the park, I'd like to replace the entire arm with a few cable ties and hex driver. Otherwise I must take multiple quads or be grounded from an unlucky mistake.

8 bullets weigh less than the difference between my gens ace and turnigy 2200 lipos and for sure less than the go pro mount that it flies fine with. A slit for wires would be less weight but even out if another bolt was needed. I also understand your reluctance to change and awesome robust design but if your doing that at the moment anyway with the carbon stuff and new alu legs, please at least consider it?

Maybe have a pole to see how many Armattan flyers consider it a useful addition - free way to get feedback on it? It might just be Rexless and me in which case i'll shut up and solder some bullets on there
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 02:34 PM
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United States, NY, New York
Joined May 2013
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CNC 258 - Great Service, Great Product!

I just received my CNC 258 frame. Wow...a truly great quality product!

I was on a budget and had ordered a "bare bones" frame with raw aluminum arms so I could experiment with a smaller quad. Chris emailed me back, and said that he was short of the aluminum arms, and asked if I would be OK if he sent me the black anodized arms instead...along with some extra frame parts!!!!

...of course I said "YES", who wouldn't!

After a (very) short wait the frame arrived and I was honestly stunned by just how beautifully made the parts were! If you haven't seen one of Chris' quad frames, take it from me...the manufacturing quality and overall finish are absolutely top notch!

His courteous "customer friendly" attitude, prompt shipping, and great quality will have me coming back for a CNC 355 in the near future.
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 03:35 PM
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I just received my CNC 258 frame. Wow...a truly great quality product!
There's DaVinci, Bach, Tesla, Edison, Einstein,....and then there's Chris. All scientists and artisans of their trade.

Someday one of your descendants will be in possession of an Armattan original CNC 258, and the auction houses and museums will label it as a priceless artifact.

Of course, if you treat it like it is meant to be flown, it might have a few bends and dings in it. But that's how you know someone bought it to play with and not just set it on the shelf and stare at it.

Congratulations.
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 06:57 PM
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United States, NC, Fuquay-Varina
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Just ordered a CNC 258 with a coupla spare props and orange Rx.. Woot! Looking forward to it after pondering ordering for months.
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 07:38 PM
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Ireland, Galway, Galway City
Joined May 2010
126 Posts
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Originally Posted by DD1369 View Post
I just received my CNC 258 frame. Wow...a truly great quality product!
I agree, nice design, essential, simple and elegant....
I got my CNC 258 more than a month ago, but I was able to fly only since the last few days because of an issue with the delivery of the charger...
Finally I will be able to be more active in this forum...

Excellent feeling, this is my first brushless "toy"... and I am impressed.

I have the battery Giant 2200 35C ( ~160grams)
It seems good but I dont really have terms of comparison, I can say:
after 7-8 minutes (TX timer) of normal/sportive flight no acro
still a lot of "punch"
the temperature is slightly warm (no hot at all)
the voltage is about 3.76V (measured after 1 hour)

I am not expert of 3S batteries but these seem good values, what do you think you guys... any other excellent battery to suggest ? or I will take more Giant 2200 ?
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 11:34 PM
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United Kingdom, England, Sheffield
Joined Jun 2012
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Hey Intelfly, those specs sound about right for the weight for me but kinda depends on price and how many cycles they perform for if they are good value.

8 minutes of even sedate flying sounds super, I can get just over 4 mins of obscene flying from a 2200 (nanotech, gens ace, unbranded) and can't get past 7 minutes of flying with a few punches on my new 355 with 8" props.

I tweaked my rates up a touch and added a chunk of yaw and went out for 5 lipos. I flew great and was still slilky smooth after the repairs. Smooth enough for a couple low altitude cartwheels flying low over long grass and some trimming of branches and another grass landing with no damage at all. Big smiles

Didn't dare to flip it though as I'm still holding out for some preferred acro settings from a kind Armattan owner.

Hows about a direct question? Chris, please will you post a screen shot of your preferred acro settings for me as reference?

Yours looks plenty nimble and i can tame it down for my personal needs confidently. None of your vids look like it flips to fast for me, are you full extreme with the cyclic when doing multiple flips on your vids?
And disclaimer - Any damage done to me or my quad is 100% my responsibility and I promise to love and fix it asap should the worst happen.

If there is a way to figure out the degrees per second or any way of knowing how fast it will flip without trying the 'suck it and see' approach then please explain.

I tried my first onboard cam footage and considering there was no regard for vibration dampening at all - the wingcam cam was just stuck on the center plate - it was watchable, so much better than the dji clone frame it's daft. The second keyfob cam was lazily stuck to the end of the lipo pointing straight down and although and vid of low or high was good, most was rubbish. The quality however was fantatsic, literally no vibes and even at WOT the downward cam was way above par, should be a perfect shot for inquisitive doggies.

I haven't even got it dialed in or even 10 lipos through it yet but the grin potential is massive and the value for money is really superb. I'm up for another when you are prepared to do the SimonK reverse firmware Chris, regardless of prop availability.
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