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Old Feb 26, 2013, 05:43 PM
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hi start for newbies

Hi,
iv been flying dlg for a year and half now and i decided to buy a pure sailplane and launch with hi start.

i have a pulsar 2m and an onyx 3.4m.... what hi start should i buy? ... i looked at dynaflite heavy duty hi start, but they say it requires 800 ft of space.. i do have that space but it feels like too much walking...

i saw guys at the field launching big explorers and supras in small area of the field but i never had to chance to ask what they are using as hi start..

thank you
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 09:23 PM
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I have the same Highstart. Worked great for my big bird, but wanted more power for my OLY III. I saw all the short zip starts being used, so I cut the 100ft line in half and attached both ends to a ring. So my set up is 50ft doubled rubber, and as much line as can fit the field....I'm running about 175ft of line, 50 ft rubber, stretch it about 100ft (50 paces) Works well for both now.
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 09:26 PM
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xzatx:

There are a variety of hi-starts available. The one you mentioned will most likely work just fine, although be pretty much a rocket for the 2-meter ship. I suggest the "normal" hi-start.

A hi-start is pretty much 20% rubber band (like surgical tubing) and 80% string. You have to stretch the rubber band for the initial launch - that's why the walking. Pound in the stake at the up-wind end of the field, lay it out straight. Make sure your sailplane and radio are turned on, then start walking.

The way I judge launch tension is to feel when the string starts to feel like it's not stretching any more. Once, we measured the tension with a fish scale, and we were surprised: it felt like a lot, but was actually about ten pounds. At this point, face the launch direction and release the airplane level. Trimmed properly, it will rotate to a natural climb attitude.

It may pop off too early - that means the hook may be too far aft, or that you need a bit more nose-down trim for launch. Do your best to recover and land.

Let it rise naturally, steering with the rudder to keep it straight. At the top, it should fly off the line easily. If not, nose down and fly off.

As you gain experience, you will find that a hard pull will steepen the climb (and possibly cause a pop-off), while a heavy airplane may require a bit of nose-down to keep speed up and avoid a stall. If there is any breeze at all, you should get the entire length of rubber band and string for the launch height. As you gain skill and confidence, you will learn to "zoom" off the top, and with a breeze you can sometimes double that height.

I have had the hook fail to release (the ring was too small, and caught on the hook). I flew the airplane down in circles around the stake, to a nearly normal landing.

I use a Dynaflite (I think) "jump start", which is quite a bit shorter. It handles all my airplanes well, big and little. It totals about 200 feet.

Good luck.

Yours, Greg
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 09:37 PM
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Thank u mr smith and greg
gregYou mean the up start on tower hobbies for $30 now? http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXYXK6&P=7

Thanks for the tips..
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xzatx View Post
Hi,
iv been flying dlg for a year and half now and i decided to buy a pure sailplane and launch with hi start.

i have a pulsar 2m and an onyx 3.4m.... what hi start should i buy? ... i looked at dynaflite heavy duty hi start, but they say it requires 800 ft of space.. i do have that space but it feels like too much walking...

i saw guys at the field launching big explorers and supras in small area of the field but i never had to chance to ask what they are using as hi start..

thank you
> Learning to use a hi-start
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155353
http://www.rcsoaringdigest.com/pdfs/...SD-2008-03.pdf Page 25

The RC Soaring Digest article is based on the RC Groups post. They will tell you everything you need to know about hi-starts and how to size them and use them.

Is this your onyx?
http://www.soaringusa.com/Onyx-L.html

Using round numbers, the Onyx is a bit over 4 pounds. You will want between 12 and 20 pounds of pull to launch it. The Dynaflite HD would get it in the air ... weakly. And would not be too much for your 2M. But I would not recommend it for the Onyx. Read the article.


A full size hi-start is about 500 feet at rest. Then you stretch it about 300 feet giving you the 800 foot need. That will put your glider up between 350 and 600 feet depending on your skill, wind conditions and the strength of the hi-start.

You can cut a hi-start down to be any length you want, but smaller hi-starts produce lower launches.

Alternatives:

OneWinch - www.onewinch.com
If you don't need the super power of a ford long shaft winch or you want to avoid all the walking of pulling your hi-start out to 800 feet, take a look at the Onewinch. I have one. Works like a winch in the space of a winch but about the power of a hi-start. No battery, very light and easy to use. And a LOT less walking than a hi-start.

Posted several posts/reports starting on bottom of the page. Post 129
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1473778&page=9
Videos on this page - around post 158.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...473778&page=11


Little Big Winch
ESL Newsletter - Go to the 4th post
http://www.flyesl.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=453
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:28 AM
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very helpful links, thanks a lot aeajr
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:37 AM
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so for onyx onewinch is okay? what's the heaviest plane you can put on one winch?
how much area does it need? .. the distance between the location where you put the pin in the ground until the place when you let go the plane.

2 - if you let go and forget to back up, what happens? would it be like a simple safe handtoss? the plane unhooks cause no tension in the line?
3 - how do you cancel a throw after you let it go? by takin out the tension from the line (moving forward?)

i read some threads about the price being high.. it is prety high and the shipping is very high .. $20... but if it's save time drama and easy to use and no hassle.. it's probably worth it.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xzatx View Post
so for onyx onewinch is okay? what's the heaviest plane you can put on one winch?
how much area does it need? .. the distance between the location where you put the pin in the ground until the place when you let go the plane.

2 - if you let go and forget to back up, what happens? would it be like a simple safe handtoss? the plane unhooks cause no tension in the line?
3 - how do you cancel a throw after you let it go? by takin out the tension from the line (moving forward?)

i read some threads about the price being high.. it is prety high and the shipping is very high .. $20... but if it's save time drama and easy to use and no hassle.. it's probably worth it.
Price is high? I high compared to what?

A hi-start for which you don't have enough room? Lower in price - won't work for you.
I own two hi-starts


An electric winch that costs $500 to $2000? More powerful - more expensive
I own a winch and a retreiver.

High compred to what?



It is all discussed in the link to the thread but I will give you a quick summary here as I own one and reported the tests.

Area is adjustable. Standard it needs about 500 feet. This would give you a launch comparable to a hi-start that needs about 800 feet. You can vary that to your taste. Add line to make it longer or tie is short to make it shorter. I have done both. Just remember that shorter length means shorter launches.

As discussed and demonstrated in the thread you launch with a hand toss and a step back. In fact what you asked is demonstrated in one of my videos.

Stop walking and there will be no pull on the line.

Heaviest on the one winch? There is no specific limit. I would guess about 6 pounds but it is really based on how hard you want to pull. You are using your body weight mostly. Not a lot of strength involved and your legs are your strongest muscles.

A 5 pound plane would need about 15 to 20 pounds of pull. There is a 4 to 1 ratio on the onewinch so that would mean 60 to 80 pounds of push from your legs. Can you generate 60 to 80 pounds of push with your legs? Well, if you weight more than 100 pounds, you do it all the time. And most of the tension is based on just leaning back against the line. Not a lot of work at all.

Read the thread, watch the videos and you will understand.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 10:15 AM
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ok, will do, thank you!
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 04:04 PM
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Versatility

Hi xzatx,

This is Tim Gess, developer of the Onewinch. As aeajr pointed out, there's a lot of information on the referenced thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1473778, but since it's getting long at 27 pages I thought I'd chime in with a critical point.

It's natural to compare the OneWinch cost to a high start, but it's important to note that it will launch any plane you can pull, thereby replacing several high starts with a single device. In the attachment you can see planes ranging from 8 oz up to unlimited sizes. We launched all of these in the same conditions with no equipment changes.
The best high start for large planes is around $225, but it can make a mess of the smaller ones.

I've also attached a chart of some launches done with a 3.6m full house Topaz so you can see some altitudes. These were on the standard 500' setup, and we've had launches over 600' with a good breeze.

Finally, I think there is a OneWinch in the SoCal area that you might be able to see. PM me if you're interested in following up.

Tim
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 04:18 PM
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Hi Tim. thanks for jumping in.

Is that a Legend in that picture? That is one heavy plane. I used to have one of those.

Of course Tim is right, the OneWinch will launch a variety of size planes with no problem.

The hi-start I would recommend for that Onx would be the hosemonster 3M convertable which can be found at this linke - $227
http://www.aerofoam.com/complete-3m.htm

Or make your own out of pieces:

Rubber - $77
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/histart.h...ueryId=4242422
Chute - $23
Add a spike, reel and some steel rings and 400 feet of line - About $30

Both hi-starts will match the launch height of the OneWinch but will need 800 feet to do it.

Both are well matched for the Onx and a little over strong for the Pulsar but it should launch OK using a shorter pull.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 05:07 PM
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thank you guys for the input...
quick question, is it easy to take out the belt once the plane is in the air? or do you have to keep wearing it all flight?
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 05:26 PM
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Quick release lever and it drops to the ground.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 06:44 PM
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Yes, that is a Legend, but I don't know the weight.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 07:10 PM
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Mine was 82 ounces. Most were at least 76.
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