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Old Feb 23, 2013, 11:55 PM
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United States, CA, Tehachapi
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Working with Samurai Carbon

I'm getting ready to bag a DLG wing with some Samurai Carbon I picked up a while ago and I'm looking for some help with how I should handle it. It doesn't seem to have any binder, so I'm concerned about the weave falling apart once I cut it. Are the rest of y'all using a wax paper transfer method or does it stay together nicely without it? Any other suggestions for keeping it together and looking nice?

B
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 12:15 AM
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Joensuu, Finland
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I actually use plastic film rather than wax paper. I'd suspect there is no difference, just use whatever you happen to have. I always use carrier film. Even if the weave doesn't unravel, the piece will be distorted immediately when you try to pick it up. When cutting smaller pieces from a large roll of fabric, I put masking tape along the cut line and cut through the tape, this keeps the edges from unravelling. Obviously the piece needs to be larger than needed, then I place the cloth on the carrier film, wet it and cut to size, discarding the exess with tape.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 12:24 AM
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Hamilton, CANADA
Joined Sep 2009
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LoL.. had to look up what "Samurai carbon" cloth was.. (now I wish I had some)

On its own, and particularly on a bias, the weave will fall apart,
and the piece you are working with will lengthen, and shrink in width... guaranteed

To prevent just that..all our bagging is done by making a paper or wax paper template of
exactly the size and shape you need. Then very lightly dusting it with some 3M77
...let the mist fall onto the paper from about a foot high. Less is more..!!
Then transfer the paper to the cloth...carefully.. and accurately..
gently roll press into place, then cut to the template shape.

We wet out the cloth on the paper, and use a hard roller on the cloth
to try and spread the weave so there are minimum spaces between the warp and weft.
....vac bag it with brown paper towels to blot the excess epoxy.. pretty standard methodology... and not our original idea for sure. But it works very well.

When it comes time to remove the paper, go very slowly as you lift the paper away.
We have learned that folding the paper close to the cloth (180 deg) in the direction you
are removing the paper helps to prevent the cloth from lifting off the core.

Luck
Ray
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwill6 View Post
I'm getting ready to bag a DLG wing with some Samurai Carbon I picked up a while ago and I'm looking for some help with how I should handle it. It doesn't seem to have any binder, so I'm concerned about the weave falling apart once I cut it. Are the rest of y'all using a wax paper transfer method or does it stay together nicely without it? Any other suggestions for keeping it together and looking nice?

B
brandon, have you ever worked with textreme spread-tow? well the samurai is even easyer it doesn't distort , i can cut very tiny pieces and fibres remain in position...
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 09:26 AM
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United States, CA, Tehachapi
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I haven't used Textreme. I've only used 5.7oz plain weave and 5.7oz ST and both fall apart very easily. You say samurai is easier than Textreme? It's not so much the small pieces I'm most worried about. It's the 1.5"x30" Dbox pieces that I'm afraid will distort horribly when I try to pick them up.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 08:50 AM
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Ummm, my experience is the opposite of Kristof's, at least with this material here: http://shop.r-g.de/4DCGI/ezshop?acti...COUNT=27151673

I use the 3m77+wax paper transfer method on my Samurai d-boxes.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 11:09 AM
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Thanks for your responses guys. I'll use wax paper transfer on this one.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 12:08 PM
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United States, WA, Seattle
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My experience is similar to Krikkens' - if you are careful, you can cut/move/apply Samurai fabric without any stabilization. I regularly cut and apply 3-tow by ~11 inch strips for tail surface spars without any stabilization and they stay perfect. I can't do this with 1oz Kevlar or other lightweight, non-stabilized CF. Having said all that, wax paper transfer is so easy that I can't see why not to use it, particularly with larger pieces where you risk messing up an expensive piece of fabric. Paper transfer also ensures that all the tiny little bias tow pieces that are usually present around the edges of curves stay perfectly in place, so it can help ensure the perimeter cosmetics. Have fun, it's very satisfying fabric to use.

-John
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 05:51 PM
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i never made a d-box with the samurai but i cannot imagine it being hard to do , for the bottom of the vertical i cut small strips and it handles perfectly , i never distorted this fabric when wetting out .

the binder textreme spread-tow binder sticks to paper towel when blottingh out and this doesn't happen with the samurai , that's why it's my #1 when it comes to easy handling .

i never have used any transfer medium when working with fabrics

-kristof-
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Old Mar 04, 2013, 10:24 AM
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I gotta say I think Kristoff is right. I used wax paper xfer for it, but I think it could have been done without it. That fabric is so tightly woven and so stable I probably could have pulled the wet fabric off the mylar and replaced it without much trouble if I needed to. I am officially in love with Samurai carbon!
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Old Mar 04, 2013, 01:18 PM
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This 1k carbon gets very difficult to handle when the cuts are narrow, especially around the wingtips of the D-box wings etc. With that being said, it can be handled without a binder if you're careful, just make sure that you don't shear it accidentally. It's one of those things that is really easy to screw up once and then pretty easy to NOT screw up after you know what NOT to do with it. My bigger problem with the stuff than handling is the failure mode. It likes to "zip" open when impacted. I had a minor impact damage on the LE of a wing that tore along the fiber lines all the way back to the spar lamination. I don't typically see that kind of issue with Textreme or regular 1k carbon 20x20 or 24x24 weaves. It's cool stuff but I'm not sure if I'll use it again.

The other annoying thing about being binderless is that if you have a tiny offcut at the end of a tow (like from a roller cutter) this offcut will find its way onto another piece of fabric on the bench and it's almost impossible to remove without surgical tools. I have several wings with tiny carbon bits in them from Samurai cloth that are not an issue structurally, but cosmetically it can be frustrating.
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Old Mar 04, 2013, 02:08 PM
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I know what you mean about the little pieces coming off of ends and getting into other fabrics. I had several that I picked off of my Dbox fabric before laying it onto the mylar. Out of curiosity, do you ever use a wax paper xfer for Textreme? Or is it stable enough with the binder that it isn't necessary?
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Old Mar 04, 2013, 03:18 PM
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Textreme is like playing with construction paper when you were a kid. It's dirt simple.
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Old Mar 05, 2013, 05:36 AM
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Ive found textreme to be even more stable then standard fabrics. The stuff I have literally will not fall apart. Im not sure about the lighter stuff. But the heavier fabric I have is super easy to work with
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 04:05 PM
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Greensburg, PA
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Does anyone have experience 160g/m textreme?

How pliable is it? Would it lay in a 1/2" tube?

Will
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