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Old Feb 24, 2013, 05:10 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
13,194 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckA View Post
The worst thing about ARFs and PlugNPlay is that I can't carry on a conversation about construction and model design with the owners because they don't even speak the same language. It is often necessary to define most of the terms that all true modelers already know.
If it wasn't for the ARF's and PlugNPlay, there would probably be no one there to have any conversation with.

Get them into the hobby first with whatever they want to buy, don't criticize the fact they bought instead of built, that they have no knowledge, that will come eventually with good patient teachers.

There are plenty of really good fliers out there that probably still don't know much of the technical side, (myself included, even after 50+ years of building and flying ), but they are still hooked, still keeping the hobby going, and still keeping the costs down for us cheapskates.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 07:08 AM
What, Me Worry?
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United States, FL, Sanford
Joined Feb 2007
246 Posts
Though I like to build, I do admit that price-wise, it's cheaper to buy an ARF. Note that I am speaking here of the traditional balsa wood/plywood airplane, as that is what most of my experience is with. I can't find fault with anyone who only buys ARFs, but the side effect is a lack of construction knowlege and how to adjust and fix it. Same goes for 90% of my neighbors who have no idea of what to do when their faucet leaks or their house or car needs any kind of repair. They must pay someone to fix it. Ce la vie!
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 08:54 AM
Groundloop World Champion
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USA, AZ, Glendale
Joined Jan 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edbu1 View Post
Though I like to build, I do admit that price-wise, it's cheaper to buy an ARF. Note that I am speaking here of the traditional balsa wood/plywood airplane, as that is what most of my experience is with. I can't find fault with anyone who only buys ARFs, but the side effect is a lack of construction knowlege and how to adjust and fix it. Same goes for 90% of my neighbors who have no idea of what to do when their faucet leaks or their house or car needs any kind of repair. They must pay someone to fix it. Ce la vie!
You can play that again Sam !! I was visiting a neighbor. We were in his laundry room. He pointed at the little transformer on the wall and asked me what it was. That blew my mind..... he actually didn't know it powered his doorbell !

How in the world do those 90% you mention manage to survive? My dad was the "jack of all trades" and my brother and I managed to get the
"jack of all trades" genes.


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Old Feb 24, 2013, 10:04 AM
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While you're busy mastering all those trades you might want to have another look at the Font Size options when you post.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 10:36 AM
Groundloop World Champion
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USA, AZ, Glendale
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Originally Posted by rafe_b View Post
While you're busy mastering all those trades you might want to have another look at the Font Size options when you post.
LOL And you seem to need some remedial tutoring in how to read..... Could you not read the, "...........for us old guys" in the title of this thread ? The font size I selected is perfect for us old guys who may be visually challenged. LOL
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 10:48 AM
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United States, FL, North Port
Joined Mar 2004
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Why do these threads always turn into a "kit vs arf/bnf/plug n play" competition?

Things change, most everyone from the younger generations must have an instant gratification product. If the arfs/bnf's/plug n plays bring more people into the hobby i am all for it!

Afterall, it is nothing but good for us all. More people = more sales = more market items = more market competition = lower prices = better for us all

AND

The companies involved in the hobby are more likely to invest in newer and better technology that everyone can benefit from.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 11:05 AM
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USA, AZ, Glendale
Joined Jan 2002
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"Invertmast" I agree with you 100% I certainly do both kits and ARFs, balsa and foam. We all benefit from a growing RC hobby community. The RC technology is becoming awesome.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 01:03 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
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Not much is new really. Back in the late 1920s, the top end of model aircraft competition was wracked by a new, upstart country trying to use a new and previously unheard of material to build duration models that could out-fly anything on the competition map of the time.

The upstart country was the US, the material was balsa wood.

I mean, didn't those people know that models were built from hardwoods glued and actually nailed together, with piano wire for curved wingtips?

Thus no wonder that these threads end up being 'building vs buying' - which is much the same as invertmast's suggestion, but shorter.

But after doing a couple of BARF's - the red and white high winged one ended up pink and low winged, the triplane did one flight , was sold for peanuts and ended up as decoration in someone's house - the day I find one that meets my overall standards and needs as well as the models I design and build myself, I'll buy one.

While the world has changed - there are many people who, if asked 'what's your hobby?' would reply on the lines of 'using a mobile phone' - creativity will re-appear in those who have the drive to actually do something with their mind, besides buying what's sold to them.

If it doesn't, we're, well, messed up.

D
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 01:17 PM
The Prez....... again
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United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenh3497 View Post
The way I see it, building is building. It doesn't really matter the material being used. It's kind of like the housing industry. You see houses built out of "unconventional" materials. Things like a house made out of a steel grain bin or pored concrete, or spray foam.... They are still houses and somebody builds them. Same with the plane. It still has wings, tail and some sort of propulsion system.

Building is building is building.

Ken
If an ARF can get some new blood in the hobby, GOOD. Some of the noobs will graduate and build from scratch and some will build kits. The rest will buy ARF's and continue on because it is what they like.

Who knows what that lowly ARF might inspire. It just might be the person who invents Warp Drive.

Instead of saying "Building is Building is Building", I should have said "Modeling is Modeling is Modeling". It doesn't much matter how you get there, just get there

Ken
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 02:18 PM
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United States, MD, Elkton
Joined Oct 2011
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I guess I forget to ask what opinion I can have, at times...For that I humbly apologize..But my intention was to tell you what I thought, since that's what the OP suggested I do...
I thought he was saying we old farts are left building kits, or scratch building.
He did say that, and I do, do that.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 04:49 PM
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United States, FL, North Port
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Originally Posted by epoxyearl View Post
I guess I forget to ask what opinion I can have, at times...For that I humbly apologize..But my intention was to tell you what I thought, since that's what the OP suggested I do...
I thought he was saying we old farts are left building kits, or scratch building.
He did say that, and I do, do that.
Its not just you "old farts" who are left building. Its just the newer generations are going about it in a different way. Some use foam sheets, some wood and others composites.

I personally have done all of the different methods.

My simpler flying models are built up wood.

My more complex models (horton 229, F14 Tomcat and in the near future Do-335 pfiedl) utilize built up wooden plugs that are glassed and detailed, then i make up composite molds to make the actual flying model.

The builders arent gone (atleast not on the net), its just the methods have evolved and changed.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 08:09 PM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
2,104 Posts
My Grandpa always told me you are not old until you have been in your grave a couple of weeks.

Joe
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 09:11 PM
KE your cub.
Curare's Avatar
in the gutter, again....
Joined Jun 2005
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Ugh, what a load of rubbish.

I see this time and time again, that the 'old guys' are true modellers and anyone who buys a ready to fly model is somehow cheating.

There seems to be a mindset amoungst builders that you're not a 'true' modeller unless you've done your time, turning balsa into dust.

If the hobby were 'model building' only then you may have a point. AS it is, Aeromodelling is a multi-faceted sport. Like kenh3497 says, it doesn't matter how you get there, just get there.

I've bashed a fair amount of balsa in my time (I've been modelling for 25 years and I'm 34) and I scratch build for fun. I also fly F3A and use ARF aircraft for that as the quality of the airframe is better than I can do in my workshop, however they cost a pretty penny.

To look down your nose at fliers who use RTF aircraft is narrow minded, and will only end up with new modellers feeling alienated, and NOT learning anything from you about the nuances of model building.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 04:46 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
13,194 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
.......................................


While the world has changed - there are many people who, if asked 'what's your hobby?' would reply on the lines of 'using a mobile phone' - creativity will re-appear in those who have the drive to actually do something with their mind, besides buying what's sold to them.

If it doesn't, we're, well, messed up.

D
But like ARF's, RTF's, there are some mobile phone users who have made the effort to create 'apps' for phone. They have found out more about them, wanted to do something extra. Some are even using mobile phones, games machine controllers etc, as a means of controlling model planes.

For the 'buy it ready made' groups of users, there is always likely to be some who will want to take it further, the 'builder', the 'tinkerers', those that may just want to change something, even slightly. But would they have developed these things from scratch if none existed to buy to start with.

My point being, how many people would hobbies have lost or never even gained if it wasn't for the ability to buy something ready to go ?
How many fliers would there be now if electric flight was not feasible. I'm sure there are still plenty of IC fliers who still look on electric power as the worst thing to happen to the hobby, along with ARF and ARF models..


P.S. Well done Derek, you didn't mention 'big shiny box' once in a post.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 05:23 AM
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United States, CA, Sacramento
Joined Aug 2011
594 Posts
As several have already stated, the hobby has evolved and improved with the times.

What's on the way out
  • Balsa
  • Gas
  • Long builds
  • Pricey planes
  • Loud planes
  • Club flying fields

What's on the way in
  • EPP, other foams and exotic materials (polymer derivatives, extruded carbon)
  • Electric
  • One evening builds
  • Under $100 planes
  • Near-silent planes
  • Park and parking lot flying
  • Night flying
  • FPV
  • Planes that don't look like planes but have novel, high-performance flight properties that could only have been discovered on CAD-based design systems with physics simulation and parameter randomization + auto-test and optimize.
  • Smart electronics, integrated electronics, CPU-assisted flying and DIY electronics with open source firmware
  • 3D printing, crowd-sourced design

RC flying is bigger, more diverse, faster growing, more exciting and more fun than at any time in history.
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