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Old Feb 20, 2013, 01:16 PM
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United States, MD, Havre De Grace
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FP vs CP

If your looking for a FP be aware that although they can handle a little wind, they don't come close to what a CP can. Also a 45 degree flybar is a little more subdued than a 90 degree all things being equal.....and they never are. I have a WL v912 FP that is cheap/fun/can handle some wind/ has dual rates[high for wind] and is about $100 bucks or less that includes its own decent TX. With an oversize tail rotor, 45degree flybar and about a "250" size with good power. You can also buy what they call RTR [ready to receive] in addition to the BNF kits that allow you to buy an RX specific to your TX. Another thing is that you can buy a CP and just "dumb it down" via the TX to get it to fly however easy or aggressive you want. Most good TX's offer "dual" rates so you can set one up for "beginner" and the other for "intermediate" or "expert" and have the best of both worlds, the added advantage of being able to deal with mother nature better.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 01:21 PM
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Sorry

Just trying to help.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gamjamm View Post
Just trying to help.
It's not your fault. You didn't know any better.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:28 PM
ASJ
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Originally Posted by gamjamm View Post
. I have a WL v912 FP that is cheap/fun/can handle some wind/ has dual rates[high for wind] and is about $100 bucks or less that includes its own decent TX. With an oversize tail rotor, 45degree flybar and about a "250" size with good power. You can also buy what they call RTR [ready to receive] in addition to the BNF kits that allow you to buy an RX specific to your.
That looks more like what I had in mind originally. Can you use your own TX? On some photos I've seen it looks like the RX is a breakout board on the main board that May be removable to replace with your own. I have I DX6i that I would like to use and you can get light weight RX for next to nothing.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 03:37 PM
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I would advice for an MsrX. Tame enough to fly indoors but capable enough against slight wind. It can teach you from hovering to piros. Agility is amazing but easy to set up to do hands off hover for a couple of seconds. In my opinion it has features to fill up the needs of a complete noob up to the point where one decides to jump into CP helis or not.

Easy to repair and mods are well documented if you want to be crazy about it. Will bind with Dx6i. Fact is a programmable tx like the Dx6i will reveal more capabilities of this bird. Parts are carried everywhere and the best part is Blade just slashed the prices for brand new rtf/bnf to 99usd (stateside atleast). And i just saw at ebay at same prices with bonus 3-5 lipos.

+1 for an MsrX
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 06:47 PM
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Considerations

That's a good point. You really need to consider and settle on what TX you want to work with. The DX6i is certainly a great TX[especially for the price] and backwards/forward compatible for their RX's and Blade among others offer BNF's for it. As many can attest to, it doesn't take long to acquire a massive collection of TX's because many manufacturers have "proprietary" systems. You will spend less money in the long haul if you can build your squadron around one good TX that can store several models and your preference of parameters for each one. If there is a heli you want that is not compatible just get it as an ARF without the receiver. That's my next move. I already need 30 AA batteries for all my TX's lol. That's partly because most are not truly hobby grade or the lower end.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 03:10 AM
ASJ
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Hello,

I already have the DX6i that i use for my planes, and i know what you mean about the collection of TX's building up. This is one of the major issues with the RTF in my opinion, and it pains me to have to use a crappy TX supplied with the model when i have the DX6i gathering dust in the corner. What happened to Almost ready to fly?, or kits generally for that matter (i dont even know where you can buy a sheet of Balsa these days!)
Having done a bit more research, it appears that here in the UK many of the generic coaxials / FP's i was looking at are not easily available unless you import from china, in which case the shipping can almost double the cost. I can get the WL-V912 for around 60 imported from Bangood (a little cheaper if I dont get stung for import duty) However you can get a T-Rex 450 clone for the same price (and less than the "blade" range). I know that sounds crazy but check out the link.

http://www.giantshark.co.uk/helicopt...c-220_226.html

And it's a kit! so I dont get half the crap I dont need

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesengr View Post
My Roadmap for learning to fly RC helis is here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1829340

Not everyone agrees with me (but many do). You will see I strongly suggest you skip any FP.

A small coax may be mudane but hey are fun and useful for learning orientation. Then skip to a micro CP like the mCPx.
Now I know you advocate skipping the FP and going straight to CP, however I notice you only mention jumping to Micro CP's. If I did decide to jump straight into CP, is the T-rex 450 a step too far for the beginner?

I am aware the 450 a different animal to the micro models and certainly not suitable for flying round the house, but I also have the simulator that can fill that gap. Also as I said I already have the DX6i, lipos, chargers and all the other paraphenalia so I would literally just need the Heli.
Does that sound idiotic?
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:24 AM
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Now I know you advocate skipping the FP and going straight to CP, however I notice you only mention jumping to Micro CP's. If I did decide to jump straight into CP, is the T-rex 450 a step too far for the beginner?
before the micros, 450's were what people learned on. So you can do it that way. You can use training gear in the very beginning which can help get over those first couple of power ups. Just be aware that the crash damage is always substantial and it takes a lot of time and skill to repair and re-setup a 450 not to menton the cost of parts.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 04:43 PM
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More considerations.

People that love this hobby have to come to terms with themselves on how "deep" they want to go. Some like flying more than repairing and vice versa. Many fall in between somewhere. My best advice is do it how you're most comfortable and you will enjoy it better. You will however need to do SOME repair work regardless. I prefer to buy the cheaper ones, do some repairs but buy knowing I can get cheap parts or replace the whole bird for a song[and use those parts] vs being able to afford to keep just one or two flying due to budget constraints/time. I try to buy birds that can share lipo's, parts, Tx's etc. so I can have more for less. Others would rather work up to a CP that is state of the art for where they're at as a pilot [or want to be]. Sheesh...decisions, decisions (;p
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rhodesengr View Post
My whiole point is that the 45 degree flybar system does not feel stable when you fly it. For that matter, the 90 degree flyabr on the 450 3D didn't feel that stable either. They give a form of stability but it is soft and mushy so you kind of chase the stability around over correcting until you learn how to compensate for the fly bar's attempts to self stabilize...
-In the interest of the facts, it seems to me that someone should point out that a 45 degree flybar/head is self-stabilising whereas a 90 degree 450 CP fly-barred heli is not at all self stabilising. And unless an inordinate amount of flybar weight is used or an excessive expo or dr setting, a 90 degree 450 cp flybarred model does not have a mushy response.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 07:09 PM
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[QUOTE=elan;24239888 And unless an inordinate amount of flybar weight is used or an excessive expo or dr setting, a 90 degree 450 cp flybarred model does not have a mushy response.[/QUOTE]

My Blade 450 3D stock out of the box felt very mushy. The 450X is a whole different story.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rhodesengr View Post
My Blade 450 3D stock out of the box felt very mushy. The 450X is a whole different story.
-Out of curiosity, when the model felt "mushy" what were your tx settings?
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 02:13 PM
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-Out of curiosity, when the model felt "mushy" what were your tx settings?
I don't recall exactly but I had my rates around 50 or 60 percent. At the same time, I was flying a Gaui X2 with an AR7200BX. It about the same size as the Blade 300X which was not available at the time. The X2 was not mushy at all. It was precise and predictable. Although smaller, I could fly the X2 over and over with no hint of stability issues even in wind. On the other hand, the Blade 450 3D was much harder to control. I call the issue "chasing control". The flybar setup adds a control inertia that to me felt mushy. I tended to over correct. At the same time in my development, the X2 had no such issue. After two crashes with the 450 which seemed to be wind driven, I converted the 450 to FBL and then the control was precise and predictable like the X2.
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 12:37 PM
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Heli newb to heli newb, I jumped from coaxial to CP and don't regret it. I did get a MSR after going CP to practice orientation indoors soon after, but have only flown the MSR 3 times because it was extremely boring compared to a CP heli. With a little reading you will be able to hover which you will spend a lot of time doing at first. I say this because my first CP was the mCP X and it took me about a week to get it off the ground and hovering non-stop through one battery.

Coming from airplanes you already understand the flight modes and how the settings in a radio works. Just saying that it is not a mistake to skip FP if you are going to eventually settle on CP. If you do start with the BNF Nano. Wish the Nano was an option when I started for sure. I settled on the DX8 radio and stuck with Blade for now, but you can go here to read much more about a few of the most popular heli's in a heli newb fashion.

http://www.diysoup.com/do-it-yoursel...l-helicopters/
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Old Feb 28, 2013, 02:01 PM
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Food for thought

Not to throw a wrench in the works here but you may want to get a mini quad [as well as a FP or CP]. The reason is they are easy to learn and really fun to fly. They are inexpensive and easy to work on. They are better in the wind than a FP and allow some aerobatics as well. When or if you get frustrated with your FP or CP [whatever you decide on] or it's down for parts/repair the quad will put a smile on your face and allow you get stick time.
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