HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:04 AM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2012
1,395 Posts
You were not irresponsible.
Could you have had more redundancy in your failsafe and recovery processes. That answer will always be yes.. Even the space shuttle had limits..

The 'next addtions' to your setup that may improve this situation in the future:
- have gps coordinates on screen
- flight recording so you can see these coordinates, and also replay to visually see landmarks near the last known position.
- I've also heard of, and see youtube of examples where having a buddy with a plane can also help as it is sometimes easier to spot a downed pane from the air.

- Adding additional tracking device..
and so on..
InFocus is online now Find More Posts by InFocus
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:24 AM
Registered User
Australia
Joined Mar 2005
158 Posts
You might want to take a look at this http://store.diydrones.com/Ardupilot...-apmminosd.htm its an osd compatible with the APM2.5 and it shows not only the coordinates, but how many satellites the apms gps has. That way you can tell your gps lock is getting bad before you need to rely on it. Also i think you can plug more accurate gps modules into your apm to get a better lock
Munkey is offline Find More Posts by Munkey
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2013, 12:18 PM
Registered User
peter.braswell's Avatar
United States, VA, Chesterfield
Joined Apr 2008
156 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkey View Post
You might want to take a look at this http://store.diydrones.com/Ardupilot...-apmminosd.htm its an osd compatible with the APM2.5 and it shows not only the coordinates, but how many satellites the apms gps has. That way you can tell your gps lock is getting bad before you need to rely on it. Also i think you can plug more accurate gps modules into your apm to get a better lock
Hey Munkey -
Yep - that's exactly what I was flying. Really sweet little OSD and yes, completely compatible with the APM. I think your suggestion was a good one. I don't recall exactly what the satellite count was, but I can tell you that I had the arrow home all the way out. Again, I'm just not sure how or why everything went so sideways. The thing is that I think I could have dealt with either a bad / faulty RTM *OR* the video drop out. Was prepared for both ....

-Peter
peter.braswell is offline Find More Posts by peter.braswell
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2013, 12:47 PM
fly by night
BCSaltchucker's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
5,638 Posts
what next solution ... build cheap expendable planes without autopilot

I have one or two like that. Can be built cheap enough (like $250 ready for long range), but if I want UHF receiver in it ... no longer a cheap plane
BCSaltchucker is offline Find More Posts by BCSaltchucker
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2013, 03:32 PM
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
28,649 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter.braswell View Post
Hey Munkey -
Yep - that's exactly what I was flying. Really sweet little OSD and yes, completely compatible with the APM. I think your suggestion was a good one. I don't recall exactly what the satellite count was, but I can tell you that I had the arrow home all the way out. Again, I'm just not sure how or why everything went so sideways. The thing is that I think I could have dealt with either a bad / faulty RTM *OR* the video drop out. Was prepared for both ....

-Peter
Don't recall if you answered a question someone else asked earlier.
Were you using a separate BEC for the servo outputs of the APM?
The APM current sensor (Power module) can supply power to the APM board, but can fail
(causing a reboot) if you try to use it to also drive servos. More than a couple
planes have been lost to this.

ian
Daemon is online now Find More Posts by Daemon
RCG Plus Member
Old Feb 20, 2013, 04:12 PM
Registered User
harfordhawk's Avatar
United States, MD, Bel Air
Joined Oct 2010
177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Don't recall if you answered a question someone else asked earlier.
Were you using a separate BEC for the servo outputs of the APM?
The APM current sensor (Power module) can supply power to the APM board, but can fail
(causing a reboot) if you try to use it to also drive servos. More than a couple
planes have been lost to this.

ian
Yes Ian, I was asking about the BEC, but didn't hear the answer. You gotta have seperate bec with APM

Also , the radio system for telemtry is really a no brainer if a person is looking to spend money for some sort of tracking system and they already have the APM.
It also gives you tons of info at the field, concerning what the plane thinks is the home position.. It is simply worth it if a person has went so far as doing the APM, OSD, CL antennas, etc.. I think a clone radio can be had for less than 40.00 shipped
http://rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goo...7&productname=
harfordhawk is offline Find More Posts by harfordhawk
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2013, 06:05 AM
Registered User
peter.braswell's Avatar
United States, VA, Chesterfield
Joined Apr 2008
156 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Don't recall if you answered a question someone else asked earlier.
Were you using a separate BEC for the servo outputs of the APM?
The APM current sensor (Power module) can supply power to the APM board, but can fail
(causing a reboot) if you try to use it to also drive servos. More than a couple
planes have been lost to this.

ian
Hey Ian,
Sorry, no, I didn't answer this question and you guys might be on to something. I WAS powering my servos from the APM 2.5 box. I wasn't aware that this was an issue, so thanks for brining it to light. Along with some other suggestions, I'll take this one up too on my next build. I actually have a Castle BEC laying around, it's a shame I didn't throw that into the plane before I lost it.

Best
Peter
peter.braswell is offline Find More Posts by peter.braswell
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2013, 10:00 AM
Registered User
jaas75's Avatar
United States, PA, Pittsburgh
Joined Oct 2006
460 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Don't recall if you answered a question someone else asked earlier.
Were you using a separate BEC for the servo outputs of the APM?
The APM current sensor (Power module) can supply power to the APM board, but can fail
(causing a reboot) if you try to use it to also drive servos. More than a couple
planes have been lost to this.

ian

Ok guys i have read the statement of using a separate BEC to power the receiver and servos. BUT how you do that????
In theory is not good to put 2 switching BEC together!
The only way i can imagine doing this is taking every servo leads and cutting them and connecting the power directly from 2nd BEC (or from the receiver) and leaving only the signal cable from the APM.

BUT another problem i see is that even if you power with a 2nd BEC the servos and receiver. IF the APM goes bad everything goes down . picture for a second the wiring we use in a APM. the signal to servos and ESC goes from receiver-to-APM so if the apm goes heywire it doesnt matter what input you give to the receiver the signal wont go to the servos if APM is not working.

pls if im wrong correct me, and explain how can we add redundancy in case APM goes bad.

thxs in advance
jose
jaas75 is offline Find More Posts by jaas75
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2013, 10:06 AM
my mental eXcape!
HeliGriff's Avatar
USA, Ohio, Catawba Island
Joined Jan 2011
4,373 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter.braswell View Post
Hey All,
So I decided to push the distance on my Penguin a little last night. We're flying out of Merlin Aerodrome in Amelia Virginia. First flight out to 1 mile with auto pilot RTH via my APM 2.5 went without a hitch. We decided to load up a fresh battery and try for 2 miles. Ok ... I know it's not killer distance, but I've spent my entire R/C career trying very hard not to lose sight of the plane. Anyway, motored out to 2 miles no problem and engage the AP to RTH. All of a sudden the picture starts dropping in and out and eventually I get more "out" than "in". When the picture is "in" I notice the altitude decaying and it doesn't appear that I'm headed anywhere near home. We waited around hoping to hear the buzz of the motor come over the horizon, but no joy. A search ensued but no banana. As of this morning, my beloved Penguin is gone without a trace.

So mistake #1: I didn't test the RTH on the way out on the second flight. I did with the first and it worked great. Sometimes if you don't get a good GPS lock and blast off and try the RTH, the plane freaks out a little. Not a big deal when you're LOS. It is a big deal when you're 2 miles down range flying blind as a bat.

Mistake #2: The video recording gear was ordered last week and is in transit. I wasn't recording my video down link, so no lat / long nicely captured in digital media somewhere.

Mistake #3: No tracking device onboard the aircraft and this is what I wanted to ask the group about. I ran into this link regarding a GSM/GPS device here and wanted to get feedback. Is this anything folks are bothering with? Is there a better approach? I'd give my right arm about now to be able to call the airplane and get back a text with its lat and long.

The other thing that I wanted to ask is tactics for getting planes back, other than of course the obvious. I'm going to go back out and canvas the neighborhood (though it's a rural area), put up flyers, etc. I'm wondering how long and how much rain it will take to destroy the thing? Rain is forecast starting later today here in Virginia. I believe that if there's no current left in the battery, fresh water may not destroy things as long as they dry out before you power them back up ...

Super totally completely bummed,
Peter
I lost my 48" bright yellow & white helicopter last year in a woods. It was lost three weeks. It rained several of those days. A long story-short, twenty one days later I found it. The components were dry inside despite the fact the heli was hanging in a thicket, nose down, and the canopy filled 2/3rds full of water.

I tore everything down and re-oiled, greased, replaced $20 in tail parts and a Lipo battery. I was flying her two days later. Now they call me "Lucky"

You have an excellent chance that everything will be okay. Open the electronics and check for moisture when you find her. Let dry 24-48 hours.

Good Luck!
HeliGriff is offline Find More Posts by HeliGriff
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2013, 10:15 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Lemoore
Joined Nov 2008
494 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaas75 View Post
The only way i can imagine doing this is taking every servo leads and cutting them and connecting the power directly from 2nd BEC (or from the receiver) and leaving only the signal cable from the APM.
And yet that is exactly what you should do. If you haven't caught on that every FPV plane is going to be custom wired now is a good time. These aren't regular rc planes, they have different requirements.

If APM goes bad, that shouldn't surprise you, friends don't let friends fly APM. Get an RVOSD5 or FY unit, they have a great track record.

If all that fails, get something to track your plane. I have my phone number on the plane, an FMKit beacon, TAGG tracker and ground recording. It is extremely likely that I will recover my plane, and it better be because there is some pretty expensive equipment on it that I don't care to lose.

The means to make recovery predictable are out there, it's up to you to utilize them.
Svede is offline Find More Posts by Svede
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: SeaBull, now with Phobotic CP
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2013, 10:36 AM
Registered User
jaas75's Avatar
United States, PA, Pittsburgh
Joined Oct 2006
460 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaas75 View Post
the signal to servos and ESC goes from receiver-to-APM so if the apm goes heywire it doesnt matter what input you give to the receiver the signal wont go to the servos if APM is not working.

pls if im wrong correct me, and explain how can we add redundancy in case APM goes bad.

thxs in advance
jose
thxs for the fast response svede, and i understand the custom wiring involved in our FPV planes.
But i still have the question, even with redundant power to our servos if the APM,RSVOD, FY goes crazy. The signal from our transmitter still goes from receiver to APM (insert your brand) so if this fails it doesnt matter if servos have power (or even receiver have power). You go down cuz the middle man (read the controller you are using) went heywire.

pls if im wrong and its a misconception let me know, but pls explain me why
jaas75 is offline Find More Posts by jaas75
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2013, 10:48 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Lemoore
Joined Nov 2008
494 Posts
If you are using APM, you dramatically increase the chances of the middle man going crazy. No matter what brand, at this stage in FPV there is no redundancy for an autopilot failure. Like any piece of gear you put on your plane, choose the brands with the best track record. If that lack of a guarantee is too frightening, find another hobby. Get the most reliable gear, test it in all modes while still close, and have multiple methods of tracking. Then, knowing you everything you could, go have fun!
Svede is offline Find More Posts by Svede
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: SeaBull, now with Phobotic CP
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2013, 11:01 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Lemoore
Joined Nov 2008
494 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaas75 View Post
BUT another problem i see is that even if you power with a 2nd BEC the servos and receiver. IF the APM goes bad everything goes down . picture for a second the wiring we use in a APM. the signal to servos and ESC goes from receiver-to-APM so if the apm goes heywire it doesnt matter what input you give to the receiver the signal wont go to the servos if APM is not working.

pls if im wrong correct me, and explain how can we add redundancy in case APM goes bad.

thxs in advance
jose
Besides, why are you only concerned about redundancy on the Autopilot? Do you have dual servos on all flight critical surfaces? Dual motors? Dual video cams and transmitters? Don't over think it. Get good gear, follow the directions and go fly.
Svede is offline Find More Posts by Svede
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: SeaBull, now with Phobotic CP
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2013, 11:25 AM
Registered User
jaas75's Avatar
United States, PA, Pittsburgh
Joined Oct 2006
460 Posts
again i understand what you are saying and agree with you.

My point is to the classic post of adding a 2nd power source for the servos. why would i add a 2nd power source for the servos if that wont make a difference in case flight controller goes bad.
You see what i mean????
jaas75 is offline Find More Posts by jaas75
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2013, 12:38 PM
Spektrum Dev Team
aaronredbaron's Avatar
United States, IL, Champaign
Joined Apr 2002
1,088 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaas75 View Post
Ok guys i have read the statement of using a separate BEC to power the receiver and servos. BUT how you do that????
In theory is not good to put 2 switching BEC together!
The only way i can imagine doing this is taking every servo leads and cutting them and connecting the power directly from 2nd BEC (or from the receiver) and leaving only the signal cable from the APM.

BUT another problem i see is that even if you power with a 2nd BEC the servos and receiver. IF the APM goes bad everything goes down . picture for a second the wiring we use in a APM. the signal to servos and ESC goes from receiver-to-APM so if the apm goes heywire it doesnt matter what input you give to the receiver the signal wont go to the servos if APM is not working.

pls if im wrong correct me, and explain how can we add redundancy in case APM goes bad.

thxs in advance
jose
you can build a power bus so you don't have to cut the servo wires. Something similar to this
Skookum Robotics Power Bus Walkthrough (3 min 53 sec)

basically you connect all the positives in parallel, all the negatives in parallel, and then you feed those off your 2nd BEC. only the signal lines and one ground connect back to the RTH system.
aaronredbaron is offline Find More Posts by aaronredbaron
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion What plane next? leeno123 Parkflyers 5 Feb 21, 2013 05:12 AM
Discussion I've got 35+ planes, what's my next one rcalldaylong Electric Plane Talk 35 Feb 18, 2013 07:59 PM
Discussion Lost my HZ Super Cub, so what plane next? DeepBlueGray Beginner Training Area (Aircraft-Electric) 38 Aug 02, 2012 05:42 PM
Discussion lost direction. what next?? grayzeee Electric Sailplanes 23 Oct 14, 2008 09:59 PM
Devastor lost what next FullaFoam Foamies (Kits) 3 May 30, 2004 01:21 AM