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Old Feb 13, 2013, 07:44 PM
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Recommend an ARF 70mm EDF that is balsa/fiberglass?

Hi,

I have searched on this forum just now for F-16's and F-18's and didn't find anything that fit my need. I'd like to find an ARF 70mm EDF kit that is balsa/fiberglass. I have no huge objection to foamies but my 70mm HET F-18 has reminded me that balsa makes a thin wing cord possible...so foamies tend to have much more drag.

The Eflite F-86 Sabre fits this bill...but I don't have much of a soft spot for the F-86. I like F-16, F-18, Mig-29, Su-34, F-14, F-15 (modern warbirds). I wouldn't object to a hot aerobatic non-warbird if it fit the bill.

One more thing...it has to have 4 channel control. I don't think I'll like the 70mm Het F-18 because of the elevons (no rudder to do 4-point rolls). I'd prefer smaller control surfaces.

Thanks,

Andy
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 04:34 AM
My project: FAIREY DELTA 1
Erik v. Schaik's Avatar
Uden Volkel, Netherlands
Joined Dec 2003
4,974 Posts
For jets, elevons are in favour instead of ailerons because the wings can be much thinner without structural issues like flutter. because you do fancy high speed you need to take notice of this.

Too bad there are only limmited arf/kits available. The foamies have taken a very big share of the market todays. For an arf you may reconsider Het-rc and for a kit i think the RBC F100 or mig29 might be very straightforward builds but you have to pay some effort. Flying models one build from scratch/kits is much more fun!

HK has several ARF jets as well, but qty of arf lacks big time. They tend to be 20-30% heavier as needed so you will not have the benefits of reasonable wingload which is already critical for jets to start with. the Eflite F-86 Sabre is a brick and as far as I have seen the heaviest jet in its class to date. all e-flite jets seem to need a diet IMO.

take note that most arf composite planes have polyesther resin fuselages which are very brittle. The high end epoxy resin kits have become extremely rare in 70mm edf which makes high powersetups in poly airframes quite a risk. Many airframes get cracked on landings.


best regards,
Erik
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Last edited by Erik v. Schaik; Feb 14, 2013 at 04:41 AM.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik v. Schaik View Post
For jets, elevons are in favour instead of ailerons because the wings can be much thinner without structural issues like flutter. because you do fancy high speed you need to take notice of this.

Too bad there are only limmited arf/kits available. The foamies have taken a very big share of the market todays. For an arf you may reconsider Het-rc and for a kit i think the RBC F100 or mig29 might be very straightforward builds but you have to pay some effort. Flying models one build from scratch/kits is much more fun!

HK has several ARF jets as well, but qty of arf lacks big time. They tend to be 20-30% heavier as needed so you will not have the benefits of reasonable wingload which is already critical for jets to start with. the Eflite F-86 Sabre is a brick and as far as I have seen the heaviest jet in its class to date. all e-flite jets seem to need a diet IMO.

take note that most arf composite planes have polyesther resin fuselages which are very brittle. The high end epoxy resin kits have become extremely rare in 70mm edf which makes high powersetups in poly airframes quite a risk. Many airframes get cracked on landings.


best regards,
Erik

The Het F18 70mm was all balsa wood (??wing might be foam core but I doubt it...very thin). Is there anything like that with 4 channel control? I guess I'll look closer at HobbyKing.

What does RBC stand for?
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 05:54 PM
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http://www.rbckits.com/shop/index.ph...od&productId=2
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 10:40 PM
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I looked at the Het 70mm Super Sniper today. Nice but no rudder. Is there anything like the Super Sniper that has rudder?
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 02:07 AM
My project: FAIREY DELTA 1
Erik v. Schaik's Avatar
Uden Volkel, Netherlands
Joined Dec 2003
4,974 Posts
Nope, snipers are known to have poor layup qty: gelcoat is part of structural strenght so very heavy and brittle and cracks easely. wings have weak main spar.

I don't want to bring you down but the availability if good qty epoxy resin planes in this class is close to zero. Only foamies,polyesther planes (Velocity-rc is polyesther as well) or hybrids (cloth covered foam planes at Jepe.org) and many chinese OEM products ready to bin. For this reason I haven't bought a 70mm arf edf jet for over a decade but I build them from plans or kits.

The next best plane close tot he Sniper would be the RBC F100. The build is very straightforward and instead of strip planking one can use large sheets of balsa to get a nice surface. and you can add a rudder if you want.

However, if there are good epoxy resin kits available I'd like to be noted on that. They all seem to have dissapeared because the masses want cheap only.

br,
Erik
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik v. Schaik View Post
Nope, snipers are known to have poor layup qty: gelcoat is part of structural strenght so very heavy and brittle and cracks easely. wings have weak main spar.

I don't want to bring you down but the availability if good qty epoxy resin planes in this class is close to zero. Only foamies,polyesther planes (Velocity-rc is polyesther as well) or hybrids (cloth covered foam planes at Jepe.org) and many chinese OEM products ready to bin. For this reason I haven't bought a 70mm arf edf jet for over a decade but I build them from plans or kits.

The next best plane close tot he Sniper would be the RBC F100. The build is very straightforward and instead of strip planking one can use large sheets of balsa to get a nice surface. and you can add a rudder if you want.

However, if there are good epoxy resin kits available I'd like to be noted on that. They all seem to have dissapeared because the masses want cheap only.

br,
Erik
Erik,

Thanks, again for the feedback! I will check out the sites you mentioned.

If in the future I climbed to a 90mm size, are decent quality ARFs suddenly available?

Best Regards,

Andy
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Last edited by sothpaw; Feb 17, 2013 at 09:09 AM.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 02:05 PM
My project: FAIREY DELTA 1
Erik v. Schaik's Avatar
Uden Volkel, Netherlands
Joined Dec 2003
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I think the El Bandito might be still the best epoxy resin kit around fo 90mm. Sniper90 is a dog too. Aeronaut Panther is still the best alround everyday jet not needing bunghee or retracts. Eliminator not available anymore due to lack of interest.
Salamander:
http://www.air-tech.info/html/modell...in/modell.html

Grumania jets has nice stock too.

Good qty composite jets starts from 100mm and up.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:50 AM
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United States, CA, Calabasas
Joined Apr 2010
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What about a Sapac L-39 or Viper? Sapac is out of business, but Graves RC still has a number of their ARF kits for sale. Might be worth a look.
Josh
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 05:17 AM
My project: FAIREY DELTA 1
Erik v. Schaik's Avatar
Uden Volkel, Netherlands
Joined Dec 2003
4,974 Posts
I had a Schreiner Viperjet which was a good qty product but not cheap at all and very hard to get. after seeing a Sapac Viperjet which is very similar to the schreiner version I was pretty well shocked the layup was very thick (fuse not flexible at all) and felt very heavy. Tough it performed quite well I personally made up my mind not to spend my money on this brand.
The velocity-rc layup appeared to be more refined as Sapac.

Very remarkable new brands last only for a few years.
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