SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Feb 12, 2013, 06:34 AM
Registered User
Joined Feb 2013
2 Posts
Discussion
fuselage as a wing

hi,
i want to know how a fuselage can work as a wing?where will be the induce drag create:tipside or bottom side??? how the induce drag can be minimize?? and by which shape i can get the max lift??? plz i need help i m working on a thesis......
mouna roy is offline Find More Posts by mouna roy
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 12, 2013, 06:43 AM
Herk
HerkS's Avatar
Virginia USA
Joined Jun 2007
1,647 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouna roy View Post
hi,
i want to know how a fuselage can work as a wing?where will be the induce drag create:tipside or bottom side??? how the induce drag can be minimize?? and by which shape i can get the max lift??? plz i need help i m working on a thesis......
HerkS is online now Find More Posts by HerkS
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2013, 08:42 AM
Grad student in aeronautics
United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Oct 2010
453 Posts
I'm sure some will be happy to help but this isn't really the place to get answers for a thesis.
DPATE is online now Find More Posts by DPATE
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2013, 10:32 AM
internet gadfly
nmasters's Avatar
Colorado
Joined Aug 2006
2,171 Posts
Induced drag is proportional to weight divided by span squared. W/b^2
nmasters is offline Find More Posts by nmasters
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:31 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2004
2,810 Posts
Well, the Burnelli lifting fuselage plane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnelli_CBY-3) worked out well enough. Even though it was little more than a prototype ended up being used for several years as an operative plane, and had a very large fuselage volume for relatively little drag.
Brandano is online now Find More Posts by Brandano
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:59 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
11,421 Posts
Blended wing bodys are likely the way to go if you want lift from the fuselage. Otherwise the low aspect ratio produces lots of drag as the "tips" are so close together. The Burnelli sought to get around that by using "tip plates" along the sides. But I'm not so sure that they did a lot of good or if they simply created more inside corners to produce more drag.

NASA experimented with lifting body shapes for possible use as a Space Shuttle. For the most part other than the final flare before touchdown they had a glide like a greased manhole cover which indicates that the lift to drag ratio wasn't stellar by a long shot.

Many modern fighters derive as much as 50% of their surface lift from the fuselage parts and wide center section. Planes such as the F15, F14, some Migs and Sukhois' and others with wide spaced dual engines with surface area between fit into this category. But in these cases the engine nacells tend to duct the air down that center channel and the wings and horizontal tails act at diverting the spillage that does roll around past the nacelles. Each aids the other in this way to generate useable lift gains from the fuselage area and the spillage is captured and used by the wings and tail.

On it's own a fuselage shaped like an airfoil is more than likely going to simply generate a lot of drag. It simply doesn't have the "aspect ratio" to act as a wing unless you want to make it wide enough to begin coming close to an AR of 1. The jet fighters mentioned do it with less but again their wings are part of the structure and aid the airflow charactaristics around the fuselage.
BMatthews is offline Find More Posts by BMatthews
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2013, 08:04 PM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,469 Posts
A Burnelli was hangared just off Route 1 south of Alexandria VA, at a field where I flew r/c in the early 60's. It was moved/flown? to a museum somewhere about that time.
Watching the tests of the NASA Lifting Body was amusing... it could be seen from all over Southern California, leaving the B-52, powering up into space, and then descending like a anvil!
Sparky Paul is offline Find More Posts by Sparky Paul
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2013, 09:57 PM
KE your cub.
Curare's Avatar
in the gutter, again....
Joined Jun 2005
4,132 Posts
fuselages shaped like wings?

Nah, that'd never work.

Curare is offline Find More Posts by Curare
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2013, 11:31 PM
"...certainty is absurd."
kcaldwel's Avatar
Joined Jan 2007
3,631 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curare View Post
fuselages shaped like wings?

Nah, that'd never work.
What do you mean by "work"? It appears to still have wings...

Fortunately, on a fuselage "wing" with that low an aspect ratio the lift curve is so shallow it never really makes much lift (and therefore induced drag) before the wings stall.

Kevin
kcaldwel is offline Find More Posts by kcaldwel
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 03:43 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
11,421 Posts
... And when it does stall it simply creates tons of drag causing turbulence. Which is why we don't see a lot of wing shaped fuselages these days.
BMatthews is offline Find More Posts by BMatthews
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 05:00 AM
greg
ciurpita's Avatar
somerset, nj
Joined Feb 2005
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouna roy View Post
hi,
i want to know how a fuselage can work as a wing?where will be the induce drag create:tipside or bottom side??? how the induce drag can be minimize?? and by which shape i can get the max lift??? plz i need help i m working on a thesis......
Wingless Flight, http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4220/sp4220.htm

their application is more as a controllable spacecraft when de-orbiting, not as an aircraft (e.g. x-38)

greg
ciurpita is offline Find More Posts by ciurpita
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 05:13 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
13,400 Posts
"Wingless Wonders" -

Wingless Wonders (3 min 2 sec)
eflightray is online now Find More Posts by eflightray
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 05:19 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
13,400 Posts
Also try a Google Images search on - lifting body aircraft.

Some interesting pictures.
eflightray is online now Find More Posts by eflightray
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 06:15 AM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2004
2,810 Posts
The facetmobile (http://facetmobile.com/) is somewhere halfway between a lifting body and a flying wing. the plane flies well on a small engine and has benign handling. The main drawbacks are the poor lateral and rear visibility, and the landing AOA limit imposed by the length of the landing gear that forces the plane to a longer landing run that the one it is capable of. And naturally the fact that people expect to see a specific shape when buying an aeroplane.
Brandano is online now Find More Posts by Brandano
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2013, 06:39 PM
Jim C Patrick
jcpatrick's Avatar
Shenandoah County
Joined Jan 2008
859 Posts
Ray Clough's marvelous Martian Spaceship is a lifting body. It doesn't 'look cool', but it definitely flies with no wings. As everyone above points out, it's also draggy. But it flies well for a 1950-something design, and seems remarkably stable given that it has nothing to damp any roll.

Clip of the Martian Spaceship flying. Another seldom seen clip:

Martian Spaceship Lands in Los Angeles (3 min 32 sec)


And of course, since you want to build one, here are the Martian Spaceship plans.
jcpatrick is offline Find More Posts by jcpatrick
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question Blaster 2 crash, how do I repair the cracked wing and fuselage? thaysdchi Hand Launch 10 Oct 25, 2013 02:02 PM
Discussion fuselage as a wing mouna roy Auto Gyros 1 Feb 11, 2013 10:43 PM
Sold Parkzone T-28 Fuselage & Wing -- $40 + shipping jeb6684 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 3 Jan 30, 2013 08:51 AM
Sold EFLITE T-34 Mentor Parts (Wing, Fuselage, Tail) Pierat Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 4 Jan 18, 2013 08:59 PM
Discussion Wing and Fuselage storage edbu1 The Builders Workshop 4 Jan 08, 2013 06:05 AM