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Old Feb 11, 2013, 11:54 PM
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Yes. A lot depends on what glue stick you use. If it's more than a little sticky, forget it. If it's not fresh, forget it. (Clue: if it's shrunk away from the container, don't use it on models.) My favorite was Uhu Stick, but I haven't seen it in a long time. Maybe you can get it at Office Depot. I specifically remember that I don't like the Avery brand, though perhaps it was just stale. The glue should glide on smoothly and easily, and not very thick. As I recall, it dries pretty well within a few minutes. You might want to get the kind that's purple until it dries, but it's more important to find some that applies easily. When it's a good consistency, this is probably the easiest way to put tissue on. I don't do it on outdoor models because if it gets too wet, it lets go. In that case I put Sig Stix It or Fab Tac on the frame, let it dry, and then brush a little acetone through the tissue to make it stick. But obviously glue stick is easier. And maybe lighter.


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Originally Posted by GeorgeG97322 View Post
Lincoln,

I have some good esaki tissue, but not sure how I want to stick it down. In my old peanut days, we just used thinned down elmer's white glue.

I have tried glue stick thinned with water or was that alcohol. Anyway, I'm not big on that method. Are you suggesting that I apply glue stick to the frame then apply the tissue?

George
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 02:23 AM
Hoarding balsa is a sickness
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George, I live 40 miles north of Seattle, but I believe that there is regular indoor flying at the south Albany High School by the Willamette modelers club. Esaki tissue will weigh about 1.2 gms / Sq. Ft. Gampi will weigh about "point" 8 gms/sq/ft. I apply my Gampi with a 50/50 mix of Duco cement and MEK, with a fine, 1/8th wide brush. Brush on 2 coats to the wood, let dry, lay the tissue on the structure and attach by applying MEK to the top surface of the tissue to allow the solvent to bleed through and bond the tissue to the wood. IF you must shrink the tissue, attach an oversized piece to a frame and lightly mist with 99% alcohol and let dry for several hours, cut loose and apply to structure. Gampi was sold thru "Aiko's" in Chicago until her passing in 2004, now there are other sources for it. It will weigh close to 9 grams per square meter, or 10.7 sq/ft. I like the 18 x 24 inch size. here are sources:

http://store.hiromipaper.com/hp-12sgampisilktissue.aspx

http://www.fineartstore.com/Catalog/...ost%2Cunitcost

history of Gampi: http://www.departures.com/articles/a...japanese-paper

Indoor flyers: http://willamettemodelersclub.weebly.com/

Build light and use Duco cut with MEK for structures.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 04:31 PM
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Thanks Lincoln and Maxxnut...

I am a member of the Willamette Modelers Club and a CD at one of the Indoor and Outdoor Contests. The info both of you have provided is excellent. Thanks again.

I realize MEK works very well as a solvent and thinner for glues, but it is nasty for your health, bad to breath the vapors of and bad to get on your skin.

George
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 05:14 PM
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I've used a water thinned contact cement to attach tissue and thin plastic.

This is Aleene's Fun Craft Foam Glue, which I get at Michael's Craft stores. I was introduced to it by Chuck Markos at a Bong Eagles event. He used it to stick light weight poly bag film to balsa. The glue is a water thinnable latex contact cement. I use it to replace glue sticks for attaching tissue. You might need to let it dry on the framework a bit before adding the tissue. On drying, it forms a rubbery film.

I posted a picture of an Aerodactyl with a wing covered with produce bag poly on another thread.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...06&postcount=6

I get Esaki tissue from AtoZ (Peck) and pre-shrink it on a frame for recent projects. Isopropyl rubbing alcohol from the drugstore is a good shrinker, It's 30% water dissolved in alcohol, if you're looking at it from the wood fiber's point of view. It might soften the glue a little if you don't let it dry before spraying on the alcohol.
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Old Feb 12, 2013, 05:58 PM
Hoarding balsa is a sickness
smokey point, wash.
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George, you might remember Carl Stokes or Gil Coughlin, both of them taught me the MEK way to cover, neither had problems with being exposed to it. I get the warning a lot when I show or explain this process, but I have had 3 friends die in the last 30 days, and all 3 died from sitting on the couch, not the amount of chemicals they were exposed to in 60 or so years, including Mercury, Carbon Tet, Either, ect. Here is the size of bottles I use for glue and MEK...remember Ambroid ?? Gil also taught me to wipe the glue off of your fingers on the inside of your pants pockets, that way your mom won't find out....I actually caught heck from a mom for telling her 12 yr old son that....He must be wearing "full sleeve" tatoos by now.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 03:24 PM
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DuPageJoe,

I picked up some of the Aleenes foam glue and will give it a try. I have heard of heat setting the glue stick. Basically once covered and shrunk, you lightly hit the edges with a monocoat iron to set the glue. I wonder if that will work with the Aleenes too?

George
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 02:20 PM
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George
I haven't tried heating it. It sticks pretty well, even if diluted with water as I usually apply it. I'd figure that it's not much different from the adhesives in glue sticks or on the back of polyester covering, so modest heat would make it stick better. For outdoor planes, like the Cessna 140 shown in my blog, I painted the tissue with thinned dope ( lately Sig Litecoat ) after sticking it on. The dope penetrates the joints between tissue and wood to waterproof it. If you get this stuff on your fingers, you'll find that once it has coagulated from the original latex it isn't very water soluble.

Hope it works for you

Joe
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 06:19 PM
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Getting closer... Attached is picture missing the metal parts and wheels. Will be ready for covering soon.

George.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:06 PM
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George
Looking good! Nice lightening of the wing compared to the multiple ribs in the original Celtic. Are there sliced ribs in a layer under the two intermediate spars? Is there undercamber from that? When you cover the bottom of the wing, are you going to stick the covering to the undercamber?

I see you've got a wood prop on the scale. It looks like it will be lighter than the pop bottle or yogurt cup types.

Good luck with the covering.

Joe
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:03 AM
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Joe,

The leading edge is 1/16 sq. (8 lbs) and the trailing edge is 1/16 sq. (4 lbs). The diagonal ribs are flat 1/32x1/16 (4 lbs) and the front spar is 1/32x1/8 (5 lbs) and the rear spar is 1/16x1/16 (4 lbs) and the straight ribs are 1/32x1/16 (4 lbs) cut with a template based on the original rib profile.

It weighs .9 grams

George

I'm bending wire right now.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 11:41 PM
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Wow, that's a bad month. Sorry you had to go through that.

It seems likely your friends got away with it, but it's hard to know whether everyone else would, or whether it's just subtle. I used to use MEK a bit at work. I didn't notice any problems, but perhaps I've had some kind of damage. It might be hard to know what's aging and what's from something like that. As a teenager, I used to work for a guy who was 80 and still smoking and playing tennis every day. He'd come out and help me trim trees and such. So if you've got the right genes, maybe MEK is harmless. I'd guess a reasonable amount of ventilation and not touching the stuff would eliminate most of the risk.

I'm sure you're right that couch sitting is far worse.

I still have a good sized tube of Ambroid and use it for some of my ff planes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxnut View Post
George, you might remember Carl Stokes or Gil Coughlin, both of them taught me the MEK way to cover, neither had problems with being exposed to it. I get the warning a lot when I show or explain this process, but I have had 3 friends die in the last 30 days, and all 3 died from sitting on the couch, not the amount of chemicals they were exposed to in 60 or so years, including Mercury, Carbon Tet, Either, ect. Here is the size of bottles I use for glue and MEK...remember Ambroid ?? Gil also taught me to wipe the glue off of your fingers on the inside of your pants pockets, that way your mom won't find out....I actually caught heck from a mom for telling her 12 yr old son that....He must be wearing "full sleeve" tatoos by now.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 01:32 AM
Hoarding balsa is a sickness
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Thanks Lincoln, just buried my father-in-law this weekend, so that's #4. His job was to drill out the calcium inside the heat exchanger tubes in the large steam turbine generators at Elemendorf Air Force base in Anchorage Ak. and the cooling compound for the drill bits was made with PCB's. He wore protective suites and had to shower every 2 hours. Died at 75 yrs old from Parkinsons. I have less fumes with the picture above than using Ambroid from the tube, but the warnings are valid.
Nice jobe framing the plane George.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 01:53 PM
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Well I've finally began covering. I like the Arleene's glue, it thins easilly and seems to stick very good. I wanted a shall we say nicer looking plane so I chose some white tissue out of my stash. Seems that what I chose dosen't want to shrink very well. Pictures soon...

George
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 07:28 PM
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You going to fly that tomorrow (2/24) George?

--Bill
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 10:28 PM
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Yup, Almost done. Shrinking tissue now. Glue windshields on. Then attach wheels, then final assembly.

Weight should be about 7.5 grams, maybe closer to 8. I never can hit the mark. Always a little bit heavy.

George
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