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Old Feb 06, 2013, 11:28 PM
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Indoor Bostonian

Okay,

Who's got all the indoor bostonian plans and info?


George
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 08:39 AM
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How light do you want to build?

Basic question on indoor Bostonians concerns the weight. If you want to build to AMA minimum of 9 grams you need to find plans for Bostonian Patriot by Larry Coslick. It's a lightly built lifting body type. I've found a set, but don't recall where I got it. If you can stand losing some time, but want something more robust, there are lots of 14 gram planes around that can be flown indoors.

I've posted some stuff about Bostonians lately on this forum, as has YAK52 from the UK, but the planes weighed closer to 14 grams. I described one of my planes derived from Typond's "Beancraft Banana" in Model Builder on a thread here.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...81&postcount=1

I also started a thread on airfoils for Bostonians that attracted a fair amount of technical info.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...71&postcount=1

I fly with the Bong Eagles, who've always had fun indoors with Bostonians in their category II site. I started with a Peck Bostonian Pup some time back.

Have fun flying

Joe
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 10:27 AM
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Thanks Joe,

I have been lurking on your airfoil thread. I have located plans for Don DeLoach's Bostonian Celtic, which I have begun building. I will be building to meet the 7 gram minimum weight. We'll see how it comes out...

George
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 11:48 AM
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Bostonian Patriot Plans

You're Welcome George

You might find that the Celtic will be hard to build that light. The plans indicate some tricks to lighten it.

I found the reference to the Bostonian Patriot plans by Coslick. They are in INAV # 87 1996.

You can get to them from the new INAV web site.

http://indoornewsandviews.wordpress.com/downloads
Click on INAV 1990ís
http://indoornewsandviews.files.word...90_inav_r2.pdf
Issue # 87 May 1996
pp 336-339 of 706

Scrolling to the exact pages is a little tough but the plans are there. I also passed by a "Blue Moon" light Bostonian in that giant file.

I added pictures of my Celtic. I've had better luck flying my more basic type.

Enjoy

Joe
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 12:36 PM
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Wow...

Thanks very much...

I've flown indoor for a while. Not that I'm good at it, I just don't build enough and fly enough to get more experience. Something I should do, however I haven't taken the time.

George
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 03:14 PM
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A bit more info....

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/...php?board=31.0
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 05:20 PM
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Hi George, as Joe said I've been building (and drawing) to suit the 14g rules as that's what we compete with indoors. It's seen more as a beginner's competition so the 14g makes it buildable by most people.

There was a website run by Bernard Guest of CMAC with a lot of bostonian plans hosted but it has disappeared. I'm sure if you got hold of him via this page he'd be able to help.

There are a few in the Hippocket plan gallery too. The Boston Observer looks like a nice one to do as a 7 grammer if you lightened it a bit. My last one, the Beagle, came out at 11g but that was with a heavy prop and no special effort to build light. I'm sure you could get it close to 7g with decent indoor wood.


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Old Feb 07, 2013, 08:10 PM
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Couple more INAV Bostonians

That file on the INAV site with '90's issues I referenced above has a few more candidates for a good light Bostonian. The "Bean Machine" by Lindley has a conventional fuselage, but uses sliced ribs. It is at pp.48-49 of the '90's file in the April '92 edition (#56,57,58). The "Boston Scrod" by Dave Linstrum is a lifting body type. It is at p. 72 out of 706 of the '90's file in the Oct.'92 edition (#62,63,64).
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 08:19 PM
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I seem to recall that the smaller Garami sport biplane is almost a Bostonian, though I won't guarantee it:

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=856
Not sure what the 7 gram rules say about biplanes. You'd have to get rid of some of the sheet wood, I think, and shorten the top wing. Maybe widen the fuselage a tad.

Other than shrinking it, I don't think you'd have to massage Keith Laumer's famous Twin Lizzie very much to turn it into an attractive Bostonian:

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=210

Maybe John Oldencamp's Silver Schtick design is simple enough to get down to 7 grams:

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=3214

There are a few other Bostonians there, but not sure they're simple enough to get that light.
http://www.outerzone.co.uk/search/re...&Submit=Search


Apparently, it's possible to make a scalish Bostonian that only weighs 7 grams. At least, if your name is Jack McGillivary. I have the 1987 thru 1989 edition of Winning Indoor Designs. His winning Bostonian was patterned after the Pilatus PC-6 and the color scheme (!) is from the second airplane on this page:
http://www.pc-6.com/history/337.htm
The nose on the model is smaller and shorter, though. The airfoil isn't scale at all, very thin with concave lower surface. If that tickles your fancy, I could scan the page and send it to you.

If that's possible, I wonder if anyone could adapt Walt Mooney's attractive "Old Howard" bostonian to 7 grams.

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/...4c6e6f6dd6bd99
There are some other Bostonians in the Mooney collection on Hip Pocket:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/...?image_id=1011

This one doesn't show up in a search on "Bostonian", so recommend you also search on "Boston":

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/...p?image_id=968

There is a Bostonian called the DeHalibut Bosty Moth which was in Model Builder. If you like it, I could send you the plan. I feel funny posting it on the site, because it isn't that old. See the picture attached to this message.

I've collected some others people have come up with:
-The Flohp, based on the Floh (!) biplane! (probably not good for high times or low weights!) The plan claims it's very close to scale except with a narrower chord.
-Gee Whiz based on the big fat Gee Bee
-Stagger Wink Not sure if this one is legal or just Bostonian sized, as the plans say.
-Mass General Based on General Aristocrat. Rather attractive. I think it is also on Hip Pocket or Outerzone, so check there first.
-Another one based on the turbo version of the Porter.
-Fat Cat based on Nesmith Cougar
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 10:15 PM
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Of these, I think Oldenkamp's Silver Schtick ( Model Builder November 1992) might be the easiest to lighten, even though it was originally a 14 grammer. The Bosty Moth has even more wood. Both would be nice robust starter planes, easier to trim and keep from warping, than the "flounders" with their big lightly built tails.
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 08:28 PM
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Here's what I have so far... 1.8 grams total for what you see here...

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Old Feb 09, 2013, 09:26 PM
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George

Your Celtic fuselage is looking good. You may want to repeat the tail surfaces with just the diagonals and the center rib for the stab. These parts can move the CG a lot. The more wood in the tail, you need three times as much in the noseblock. The wing in the plans has probably too many ribs. Weight adds up fast in these things. The covering will add nearly 2 grams. Are you planning on a regular plastic 6 inch prop, or will you build one like the one in the plans?

Good luck

Joe
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 10:22 PM
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The stab and rudder ribs are 1/16x1/32 4 lbs stock. Not too much there. I'm more worried about the covering and which method I use to attach the covering with. I probabl;y should use condenser paper, but that has no character to it.

Anyone have any ideas???


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Old Feb 11, 2013, 09:43 PM
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For tissue, I find a good, fresh glue stick works well for indoor planes.

Seems to me that, using 4 lb wood, any of these designs might be made light enough! I have a 5 gram dime scale plane that has a 16 inch wing span, and includes wing struts, cylinders made from bond paper, and a couple of other things you wouldn't need in a Bostonian. I think I used 5 lb wood. I definitely used Esaki tissue. It's single covered and has a narrower wing, but still. BTW, I had to put on a big chunk of tail weight.

They say Gampi is significantly lighter than Esaki, but I don't know where to get it. Don't use "domestic" tissue, it's heavier. But if you can handle 4 lb wood, you probably already know that! Maybe if you finish the entire airframe, you'll find you can afford the weight of the Esaki. Whatever you use, weigh it first. At least if it's paper. Seems like not all batches are exactly the same. Good Esaki can be 10 grams per square meter.

Can you print (with a computer printer), use a marker, or spray paint condenser tissue? (Obviously for spraying you'd need to use a decent airbrush with decent paint instead of a spray can)

Some produce bags from the supermarket are very light, but I bet they're even harder to paint than condenser paper. And they need to be stuck down with contact cement. Shrinks ok with an iron if you get the temperature just right. I found the crinkly, slightly foggy type was best, but that was a while ago.

I wonder if you can get some kind of marking to stick to Ultrafilm. That stuff is REALLY light.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 10:31 PM
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Lincoln,

I have some good esaki tissue, but not sure how I want to stick it down. In my old peanut days, we just used thinned down elmer's white glue.

I have tried glue stick thinned with water or was that alcohol. Anyway, I'm not big on that method. Are you suggesting that I apply glue stick to the frame then apply the tissue?

George
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