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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:05 AM
Lost Realist
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Apr 2012
71 Posts
Rant
It all comes down to the same thing...

I am going to whine and I am going to get flamed for it. After a few years in this hobby I am a little bummed out. Flying is fun. Progressing is fun, at first. I flew CP helicopters in 2011. Got myself to the point where I could fly/hover/funnel inverted and then quit helis. Why? The next progression was lame. Piro Flips, kaos/chaos, etc. etc. At this point I realized that every advanced heli maneuver centered around never ending pirouetting. Tick tocks are relatively easy. Chaos is insane. Every advanced heli routine I see is just never ending piro. piro this piro that piro piro piro. Fundamentally it all came down to rewiring your brain to keep up with the constant piro to the point where the piro doesn't even really exist. The faster the better. Essentially the best heli pilot will be the one who can maintain the highest piro rate. This takes lots and lots and lots and lots of stick time and the progression becomes very very slow. I like to see more results for my time invested. Once I realized this, I said, 'screw this I'm going to relax and fly those boring old fixed wings'. Which is exactly what I did for the last year. Lots of fun. But now I am back in the same damn situation. After being satisfied with stall turns, harriers, hovering, ke/flat spins, slow rolls, pt rolls, ke loops, elevators etc. its time to move on... to rolling circles/harriers this again. It's that piro again just in a different orientation! Why!? Why!? WHY!? Why does everything have to come down to dealling with constantly changing orientations and the best pilot amongst us is the one who can 'rewire' his mind not to see the orientation change at the fastest. Super fast rolling loops what the freak? Now I see why so many people fly 'scale'...

I wonder how many other beginners hit this wall...]

Actually...

This gave me an idea...

Let's eliminate the orientation change...

With a computer...

We've got gyros and accelerometers...

Rather than using these things to eliminate unwanted forces acting on the plane...

Let's use them to eliminate unwanted orientation changes...

Not in the sense of keeping the plane in an upright and level orientation...

But in the sense of keeping the controls always oriented in the X Y Z coordinates...

If I push up on the 'elevator' I am comanding an increase in Z...

The system automatically applies the approriate amount of rudder and elevator to achieve my increase in Z...

Even if the plane is rolling...

Very quicklly...

Very very quickly...

The plane flies semi-autonomously...

My inputs merely change it's 'goals'...

A channel turns this system on and off...

Rolling rates could be achieved that no human is capable of flying through...

???

Profit!
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Last edited by LyonNightroad; Feb 04, 2013 at 02:26 AM.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 03:37 AM
trying to fly
Joined Dec 2012
29 Posts
Malcolm Gladwell said it takes 10000 hours of practice to be successful at any field. But if you're looking for a shortcut, the DJI Phantom has a feature called the intelligent orientation control.

Phantom also has the Intelligent Orientation Control (IOC) function of the Naza-M autopilot system. Usually, the forward direction of a flying multi-rotor is the same as the nose direction. By using Intelligent Orientation Control (IOC), wherever the nose points, the forward direction has nothing to do with nose direction: In course lock flying, the forward direction is the same as a recorded nose direction. In home lock flying, the forward direction is the same as the direction as the direction from home point to the multi-rotor.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 05:46 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
13,648 Posts
Lucky you LyonNightroad, you appear find it easy and to be perfect at flying anything, yes it must get boring.

Me ?, I'm happy to design and build my own planes and just enjoy flying them in a boring manner, that's what I like about the hobby.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 06:02 AM
PowerTower
RWData's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Bristol
Joined Aug 2009
1,087 Posts
So are you saying where you stand is point zero and you only need to move sticks towards you to bring your model back ?
Could have done with that on Friday evening while my quad-copter was heading off into the unknown ! It was just too far off for me to even figure orientation, so a 'bring-it-home' switch on the tranny would have been really useful. It wasn't anything really expensive, but with the flashing lights and all, I suspect it has a new static home in some kid's bedroom
Ray, as you're closest... Nah! I don't think it went that far !!
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 06:34 AM
Lost Realist
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Apr 2012
71 Posts
Kind of like return to home, except not based on gps, controllable roll rate, and 'home' is constantly moving, but you control which direction home moves to...
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 06:43 AM
sunk more than scorp
WitnessOnly's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Jan 2010
1,146 Posts
Just noticed your post RWD, time for some FPVing I think, it will give you a totally different 'view' on things, and possibly keep your interest alive for another 12 months or so, broke my quad 4 times today flying in and around shrubs, nothing big or legendary, but the 'fun box' was well and truly ticked. YMMV though so see this as just throwing a suggestion into the pot

And as to your idea, sounds interesting, but where's the fun in it
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 07:29 AM
Coy, peruser of worlds
gnats82's Avatar
Augusta, KS USA
Joined Dec 2007
4,817 Posts
Lyon -

So much of what's supposed to be "important" or "fun" in our culture relies on achievement. In and of itself, that hits a dead end with any activity and then soul searching becomes important. Let up expecting so much from the hobby. Try for a level of contentment and not being constantly thrilled. It's pretty much the same all round us. Make it simpler and not be all-consuming, I've come to review it that way.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 07:40 AM
Registered User
FlyBoy20's Avatar
United Kingdom, Wales, Swansea
Joined Aug 2012
729 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray View Post
..Me ?, I'm happy to design and build my own planes and just enjoy flying them in a boring manner, that's what I like about the hobby.
Agree wholeheartedly. I'm just a noob, but I find there's something quite magical about a nice 'n slow close up flyby with a nice-looking plane under complete control. I guess the techno-freaks have completely by-passed this aspect of the hobby.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 08:24 AM
PowerTower
RWData's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Bristol
Joined Aug 2009
1,087 Posts
It's nice to have a mix of models with different flight characteristics, I really like my 48" wing which is quite slow and majestic when the wind is around 15mph. Probably my favourite ??? No, I couldn't say that because there are other models in my hangar that are just as interesting but for different reasons. So looking at my FunBat, it's a fab flyer, handles very well and I can fly it slow or fast. Is it the favourite ?? No, because there are more possibles, in fact they are all my favourite because the all have something going for them, else I would have scrapped them ! What I'm saying, is that variety is the key, not whether you can fly it to within an inch of it's life, or pull off the most outrageous moves, Some people like doing that, still okay and not a problem with that, everyone deserves to have a rant here and there, so thank's for starting the thread Lyon... Hopefully the variety of replies has indicated that everyone has their own ideas on what the hobby should be about, and the feedback they get. Mine is to go home after a fun session with minimum (or no) black bags with bent kit in
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:07 AM
Registered User
Owatonna MN 55060
Joined Sep 2005
1,917 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyonNightroad View Post
I am going to whine and I am going to get flamed for it. After a few years in this hobby I am a little bummed out. Flying is fun. Progressing is fun, at first. I flew CP helicopters in 2011. Got myself to the point where I could fly/hover/funnel inverted and then quit helis. Why? The next progression was lame. Piro Flips, kaos/chaos, etc. etc. At this point I realized that every advanced heli maneuver centered around never ending pirouetting. Tick tocks are relatively easy. Chaos is insane. Every advanced heli routine I see is just never ending piro. piro this piro that piro piro piro. Fundamentally it all came down to rewiring your brain to keep up with the constant piro to the point where the piro doesn't even really exist. The faster the better. Essentially the best heli pilot will be the one who can maintain the highest piro rate. This takes lots and lots and lots and lots of stick time and the progression becomes very very slow. I like to see more results for my time invested. Once I realized this, I said, 'screw this I'm going to relax and fly those boring old fixed wings'. Which is exactly what I did for the last year. Lots of fun. But now I am back in the same damn situation. After being satisfied with stall turns, harriers, hovering, ke/flat spins, slow rolls, pt rolls, ke loops, elevators etc. its time to move on... to rolling circles/harriers this again. It's that piro again just in a different orientation! Why!? Why!? WHY!? Why does everything have to come down to dealling with constantly changing orientations and the best pilot amongst us is the one who can 'rewire' his mind not to see the orientation change at the fastest. Super fast rolling loops what the freak? Now I see why so many people fly 'scale'...

I wonder how many other beginners hit this wall...]

Actually...

This gave me an idea...

Let's eliminate the orientation change...

With a computer...

We've got gyros and accelerometers...

Rather than using these things to eliminate unwanted forces acting on the plane...

Let's use them to eliminate unwanted orientation changes...

Not in the sense of keeping the plane in an upright and level orientation...

But in the sense of keeping the controls always oriented in the X Y Z coordinates...

If I push up on the 'elevator' I am comanding an increase in Z...

The system automatically applies the approriate amount of rudder and elevator to achieve my increase in Z...

Even if the plane is rolling...

Very quicklly...

Very very quickly...

The plane flies semi-autonomously...

My inputs merely change it's 'goals'...

A channel turns this system on and off...

Rolling rates could be achieved that no human is capable of flying through...

???

Profit!
Try writing novels for fun. You have a real talent for fiction.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 09:45 AM
Registered User
Jim Buzzeo's Avatar
Willmar, Minnesota, United States
Joined Sep 2004
160 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohmer View Post
Try writing novels for fun. You have a real talent for fiction.
+1
you're getting bored, so you want something to make it easier??
Sounds to me as if your next obsession will be computer programing
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:00 PM
Registered User
Huesca, Spain
Joined Aug 2009
543 Posts
I'm in agreement with RWData.

A variety of different models of different sizes, styles, flying characteristics keeps me happy in the hobby.

Indeed, I go through phases......one moment I'm into sport aerobatics for a few months and my gliders sit idle in the hanger. Then something I see triggers my interest in gliders again and the other models have a rest for a while.

Mostly, I take a variety of models to the field and depending on the prevailing weather conditions, or my mood, I decide which model to fly.

The flying of each and every model is different and even the simplest and easiest model to fly can be interesting if you set yourself a challenge or goal; even just for fun.

For example; a model like the Fun Cub; attach a dropping mechanism, attach bombs, parachutes or streamers, place a target on the ground, deploy said from differing heights and see how accurate you can be. Have a heli? Attach a cord with a hook or magnet. Place varied objects on the ground or other places and affect some "rescues".

In reality, once you have a certain level of flying skill it's only the limits of your imagination that prevents you from finding ways to enjoy the hobby more.

Steve.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 03:59 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
12,018 Posts
Started in 2011.. so you are a real vereran

I've been flying RC on and off for 40 years and I still cant do a half decent rolling circle to save my life. But I still enjoy flying and that's really all that matters, it's a hobby, not a competition.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 05:22 PM
Registered User
Jim Buzzeo's Avatar
Willmar, Minnesota, United States
Joined Sep 2004
160 Posts
exactly..... heck, it takes an hour to learn how to do 3 axial rolls....
it took me probably three weeks to learn how to do 3 PERFECT axial rolls...
at least 4 months to perfect the 4 point roll....

JetPlaneFlyer, you hit the nail on the head.... combining TWO difficult maneuvers (four slow rolls each with a same direction 90 degree heading change) took me more hours than I can remember... just to learn the basic rolling circle. to become proficient took months.

getting lots and lots and lots of stick time (and being able to precisely perform VERY difficult maneuvers) is EXACTLY why I fly aerobatics...
if I were looking for something EASY, I'd find a different hobby. :-)
if it were EASY to do, you'd see (MANY) 12 year olds doing it with $99 RTF airplanes at the local baseball field.
if it were EASY we would not know who Hanno Prettner is... :-)

'I like to see more results for my time invested.'
for me, the result from decades of practice:
the smile pastered across my face after having flown a near perfect sequence that most anyone else can not do.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 05:28 PM
Rocket Programmer
jasmine2501's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
25,449 Posts
You're just irritated because you found out the hard way. When I started aerobatics, I was told the secret. There are only three moves... Loops, rolls, and spins. Once you know that, it's just a matter of how you combine them.
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