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Old Feb 07, 2013, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyothibasu1k View Post
so only motors will be operated by kk board, but remaining servo's to be operated by receiver directly.

QUOTE=leadfeather;24061005]If you are building a quadcopter VTOL you can make it work for controlling the fan motors. The tilt servo and other control surface servos will need to be controlled directly from the Rx.
[/QUOTE]

The answer to your question depends which KK board you are referring to. The one you linked is quadcopter only. Other boards have more options. You may be able to re-flash the board you selected to control servos and operate a bicopter also.

This KK board has far more options than the board you linked earlier.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 10:26 PM
NoT iNtElLiGeNt
India, Andhra Pradesh, Guntur
Joined Jan 2011
126 Posts
if u can see the two pic's there u can notice the spar across the fuselage.cg and pivot hing to that spar .

hope it gives a clarity to you where cg and pivot hing is


Quote:
Originally Posted by matwelli View Post
looking side-on , not top down

looking side on , where is your CG in relation to the pivot point ? in the VERTICAL not horizontal plane

there needs to be seperation for control, and i think your vertical CG and pivot point are to close
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyothibasu1k View Post
if u can see the two pic's there u can notice the spar across the fuselage.cg and pivot hing to that spar .

hope it gives a clarity to you where cg and pivot hing is
As stated earlier, the cg must line up with the center of the motors; not the pivot point of the wing.

In the hover configuration on your design, the center of the motors appear to be about 15mm ahead of the pivot point. The cg needs to line up with the center of the motors or about 15mm ahead of the pivot point. With the power off, just pick up the model by the motor shafts; adjust the balance until the model hangs level.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 10:38 PM
1400 watt RW Zephyr
matwelli's Avatar
Taranaki New Zealand
Joined Sep 2003
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Yes. But how far down from the hinge point is the cg

I get that looking top-down its in the right place, but what is the vertical distance?
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by matwelli View Post
Yes. But how far down from the hinge point is the cg

I get that looking top-down its in the right place, but what is the vertical distance?
The hinge point is not the issue at this time.

The center of thrust is in the middle of the fans. The cg must line up with the center of the fans during hover for this configuration. As you can see in the video they poste, every time they tried to lift off vertically it was very tail heavy...looks like they balance to the pivot point and not to the center of the fans
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Last edited by leadfeather; Feb 07, 2013 at 10:51 PM.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 10:56 PM
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Ran D. St. Clair's Avatar
United States, CA, Sunnyvale
Joined Dec 2006
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Jyothi,

I received your PM on how to use the KK1 board you bought. That is not the board I recommended. I gave you a direct link to the KK2 board, it is in still in this thread. The KK1 board you bought appears to be for quadcopters only. I have never used it so I can't say much about it except to read the manual here:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...44X7478X19.pdf

You would still be better off buying the KK2 board. It has pre-programmed modes for a 2 rotor copter like what you are trying to do. It also has the ability to drive servo's like what you need. It also has a universal mixer capability that will allow you to control both of your motors and both of your two wing control surfaces in whatever manner you desire. It also has a direct on board user interface with buttons and an LCD display so you can access all of its capabilities without a computer or special software. Just plug it in, follow the instructions, and start playing with the parameters.

At this point it is not clear to me that you understand the basic physics of the situation you are dealing with. You need to find a local adviser. There is only so much help we can provide from the other side of the planet via a forum, especially if you don't take the advice you are being given.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 11:10 PM
NoT iNtElLiGeNt
India, Andhra Pradesh, Guntur
Joined Jan 2011
126 Posts
i have sent link to you, just to get a rough idea over it.
in the kk board i am using their is an option called VTOl.. so we selected it and made some program for it... should test it after a few hour's.


The answer to your question depends which KK board you are referring to. The one you linked is quadcopter only. Other boards have more options. You may be able to re-flash the board you selected to control servos and operate a bicopter also.

This KK board has far more options than the board you linked earlier.[/QUOTE]
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 11:14 PM
NoT iNtElLiGeNt
India, Andhra Pradesh, Guntur
Joined Jan 2011
126 Posts
these pics are for matwelli.... in order to get him where my cg is being operated... the wing used here is old one... we have replaced new one u can see that in the video's uploaded at starting of this thread.

the diff of wing to this pic and that video is

all are same but, the motor position is changed to the lower side of the wing.
a box type fitting under the wing for holding motor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfeather View Post
As stated earlier, the cg must line up with the center of the motors; not the pivot point of the wing.

In the hover configuration on your design, the center of the motors appear to be about 15mm ahead of the pivot point. The cg needs to line up with the center of the motors or about 15mm ahead of the pivot point. With the power off, just pick up the model by the motor shafts; adjust the balance until the model hangs level.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 11:15 PM
1400 watt RW Zephyr
matwelli's Avatar
Taranaki New Zealand
Joined Sep 2003
1,337 Posts
Yep. But if they have no vertical distance they will have no hope of pitch control in hover......
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 11:17 PM
NoT iNtElLiGeNt
India, Andhra Pradesh, Guntur
Joined Jan 2011
126 Posts
we lift the plane by catching on either side of spar rod and balance cg (pitch).

what do u mean by vertical distance


Quote:
Originally Posted by matwelli View Post
Yes. But how far down from the hinge point is the cg

I get that looking top-down its in the right place, but what is the vertical distance?
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by matwelli View Post
Yep. But if they have no vertical distance they will have no hope of pitch control in hover......
Not true... if they use the ailerons (flaps) for pitch control as advised, they will have good pitch authority regardless of vertical cg. However, no control scheme is going to work to control pitch in hover until the craft is no longer tail heavy in hover.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 11:19 PM
NoT iNtElLiGeNt
India, Andhra Pradesh, Guntur
Joined Jan 2011
126 Posts
hi, i hope that i told you that i brought kk 2.1 multicopter board. its not kk1

i did not buy it, just borrowed from one of my frd.

i found vtol option in that programming option.

program was over and need to be tested





Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran D. St. Clair View Post
Jyothi,

I received your PM on how to use the KK1 board you bought. That is not the board I recommended. I gave you a direct link to the KK2 board, it is in still in this thread. The KK1 board you bought appears to be for quadcopters only. I have never used it so I can't say much about it except to read the manual here:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...44X7478X19.pdf

You would still be better off buying the KK2 board. It has pre-programmed modes for a 2 rotor copter like what you are trying to do. It also has the ability to drive servo's like what you need. It also has a universal mixer capability that will allow you to control both of your motors and both of your two wing control surfaces in whatever manner you desire. It also has a direct on board user interface with buttons and an LCD display so you can access all of its capabilities without a computer or special software. Just plug it in, follow the instructions, and start playing with the parameters.

At this point it is not clear to me that you understand the basic physics of the situation you are dealing with. You need to find a local adviser. There is only so much help we can provide from the other side of the planet via a forum, especially if you don't take the advice you are being given.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 11:22 PM
1400 watt RW Zephyr
matwelli's Avatar
Taranaki New Zealand
Joined Sep 2003
1,337 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfeather View Post
Not true... if they use the ailerons (flaps) for pitch control as advised, they will have good pitch authority regardless of vertical cg. However, no control scheme is going to work to control pitch in hover until the craft is no longer tail heavy in hover.
Yep . They sure will, good plan.
I hope that we can explain the principal behind the reason, will leave it to you
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 11:38 PM
NoT iNtElLiGeNt
India, Andhra Pradesh, Guntur
Joined Jan 2011
126 Posts
check this


Quote:
Originally Posted by matwelli View Post
Yep. But if they have no vertical distance they will have no hope of pitch control in hover......
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matwelli View Post
Yep . They sure will, good plan.
I hope that we can explain the principal behind the reason, will leave it to you
The principal can be explained in two words "pitching moment". Just compare to how a flying wing aircraft controls pitch.
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