Wow, that's pretty stunning, coming from an American. The very concept turns our Bill of Rights on its head. It's the argument you hear often from our European friends here on LTUP. They argue the difference is irrelevant.

If things change in the US to the point where our concept of rights is that they are granted by the government rather than inherent human rights that a protected by the government, there is no longer a compelling reason to live here. We will have become just like every other social democracy and tinpot dictatorship where rights are granted and rescinded at the government's will.

It's frightening to see so many people publicly and proudly taking this position. It's something genuinely new in our civic discourse.

Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp

Man does not have any rights at all... Man is an animal, just like the rest of nature.

Any so called rights, are taken by man... or given by government.

Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp

People born in Somalia do not have the same rights as we do.
Rights are given to the people by the government.
In our case, we are the government, and we give and take away rights, ourselves.

No, they have those, rights, but their government has TAKEN them away.

Originally Posted by RCWorks

That's you, that's not the rest of us.

You are hardly representative of anyone but yourself. You can only speak for you.

Originally Posted by CoastalFlyer

You are hardly representative of anyone but yourself. You can only speak for you.

That's Kenny, not the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp

Man does not have any rights at all... Man is an animal, just like the rest of nature.

Any so called rights, are taken by man... or given by government.

We have rights, but like salvation, we must accept and claim them.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Then 56 men signed that document.

Once we quit claiming those rights we cease being what we are and eventually become slaves.

You never know what rights you have, unless you use them.

Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp

God given rights, is a joke in my opinion.

Now I can understand why you are a liberal.

Originally Posted by mikefast

Now I can understand why you are a liberal.

But the thing is, does he understand? In spite of his self professed "genius IQ", I sincerely doubt it.

The idea that Kenny is expressing here is one of the key philosophical differences between American progressives and conservatives. It challenges the fundamental philosophical underpinning of the Bill of Rights. Once we lose that - mark my words - we have nothing left.

It's one thing to debate on a whole variety of issues facing the country. But once we start to dilute the Bill of Rights with the notion that those rights are granted by the government rather than God-given and thus unalienable, we are done. Really done.

Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp

God given rights, is a joke in my opinion.

I've generally found that people who claim to possess a genius-leve IQ, don't.

Originally Posted by n00b-E

But the thing is, does he understand? In spite of his self professed "genius IQ", I sincerely doubt it.

Originally Posted by LcJ

We have rights, but like salvation, we must accept and claim them.



Then 56 men signed that document.

Once we quit claiming those rights we cease being what we are and eventually become slaves.

Those rights were claimed by the authority of men in the newly formed government.

Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp

Those rights were claimed by the authority of men.

No Kenny, those right were claimed to be protected from the authority of men. There's a difference, you'd do well to learn it.

Originally Posted by bwanajim

The idea that Kenny is expressing here is one of the key philosophical differences between American progressives and conservatives. It challenges the fundamental philosophical underpinning of the Bill of Rights. Once we lose that - mark my words - we have nothing left.

It's one thing to debate on a whole variety of issues facing the country. But once we start to dilute the Bill of Rights with the notion that those rights are granted by the government rather than God-given and thus unalienable, we are done. Really done.

I don't see how it dilutes the Bill of Rights.
The rights are claimed by the authority of men.

Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp

The rights are claimed by the authority of men.

No, they aren't

Originally Posted by n00b-E

No Kenny, those right were claimed to be protected from the authority of men. There's a difference, you'd do well to learn it.

The document says it is claimed by the authority of men... as well it should be.