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Old Jan 30, 2013, 05:03 PM
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United States, TN, Knoxville
Joined Oct 2012
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Indoor Micro Old Fogey

I'm new to RC and newly retired and been reading like crazy here and flite test to learn. Joined AMA and local RC group. Bought a DX 6i, bought a Bixler and HK 109 and then discovered $ Tree building. Decided to learn to fly on home-built and low cost planes first. Built a Nut Ball, Baby Bixler and 2 Old Fogey's.

I really like the Old Fogey shown on flite test so I built one and waiting for good weather to maiden. Decided to build something for indoor flying and realized a 50% Old Fogey might be it.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 05:16 PM
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United States, TN, Knoxville
Joined Oct 2012
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The finished Half-a-Old Fogey has a wingspan of 18 1/2" and length is 15 1'2". I don't have a gram scale, but on a mechanical postal scale the fuse and wing weighs 2 oz (57 g.).

I want the slow-flying capabilities of the plane to fly indoor. I have installed 2 HXT 500 servos staggered because the inside width of the fuse behind the wing is only 3/4". I managed to widen this to 1 1/4" using servo trays.

I plan on using a HK orange receiver.

What I need is some expert help in selecting a motor. I hope to fly on a 2 cell. A Nanotech 2s 300mah battery give a total weight of 3 .5 oz (99.2 gs.). HobbyKing lists the Turnigy 1811 brushless 2000 kv for a 150 g indoor flyer. Will mount to a ply firewall and use a 10 amp Red Brick esc so I should be under the total wgt.

I've only flown twice on a Buddy Box on a Bixler, but both flites were fine. Been flying Phoenix 4 this Winter and getting ready to solo.

Is motor and battery size OK for slow flight indoors or do I need to go bigger?

Thanks for your help.

Lynn
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 05:32 PM
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United Kingdom, England, Redcar
Joined Jan 2006
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Those little 1811 2000kv motors are quite powerful but just be aware that the wires are pretty thin and brittle, I broke a few of them with very light landing bumps, too many in fact, a tip is to find the smallest cable wrap/tie that you can as and secure the wires to the motors pillar. I can't really tell you if it will be fine for your plane , but on 2 cell a 6x3 prop will give around 150g of thrust and a 5x3 around 105g.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:51 PM
Crazy Canuck
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United States, VA, Woodbridge
Joined Apr 2007
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Welcome to the world of RC flying and it's wonderful community.Congratulations on making it to retirement and joining the AMA(you should join the NRA to while you're at it LOL) Joining a flying club and buying a great Tx and a few planes. Now you are ready for some fun times.
NOW you've discovered building your own plane (look at foamy scratch building ) Now you're going to have real fun making your own planes and watch them fly away!!! Good for you and as I say to all " Have a good time all the time" enjoy your wonderful world of rc flying
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Last edited by NEWBEFLYER; Jan 31, 2013 at 12:58 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 12:56 PM
Crazy Canuck
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United States, VA, Woodbridge
Joined Apr 2007
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Have a look at the micro and indoor plane section and look for MTNFLYR's (Pete)builds of WWI plane albatross, Fokker D-VII and Fokker D-VIII along with Speeidie01 Gene they can inspire you to try some of those.Also Jingjing's Sopwith triplane kit laser cut a must to get.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:26 PM
Power Wheels Guru
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Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
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Indoors @ 18" WS, 50g, is better than 100g.

Champ. Champ. Champ.

It's better to buy a bulletproof indoor plane that teaches you to fly for $75 than building a series of $30 planes that crash and break every flight.

When it does eventually break, use the Champ guts to build lightweight indoor planes.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:27 PM
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United States, TN, Knoxville
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Thanks for the tips Newbeflyer. Volumes of info on these forums and lots of directions to look.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:32 PM
Life begins at 40
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Canada, ON, Guelph
Joined Jun 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynnsabcs View Post
The finished Half-a-Old Fogey has a wingspan of 18 1/2" and length is 15 1'2". I don't have a gram scale, but on a mechanical postal scale the fuse and wing weighs 2 oz (57 g.).

I want the slow-flying capabilities of the plane to fly indoor. I have installed 2 HXT 500 servos staggered because the inside width of the fuse behind the wing is only 3/4". I managed to widen this to 1 1/4" using servo trays.

I plan on using a HK orange receiver.

What I need is some expert help in selecting a motor. I hope to fly on a 2 cell. A Nanotech 2s 300mah battery give a total weight of 3 .5 oz (99.2 gs.). HobbyKing lists the Turnigy 1811 brushless 2000 kv for a 150 g indoor flyer. Will mount to a ply firewall and use a 10 amp Red Brick esc so I should be under the total wgt.

I've only flown twice on a Buddy Box on a Bixler, but both flites were fine. Been flying Phoenix 4 this Winter and getting ready to solo.

Is motor and battery size OK for slow flight indoors or do I need to go bigger?

Thanks for your help.

Lynn
It looks like you still have the paper on the foam. You can take about 60% of the weight off, by peeling the paper off of the foam. Doing that will make it fly much better, and slower.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:55 PM
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United States, TN, Knoxville
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I had already thought about removing the paper to lighten but doesnt it add some strength?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:27 PM
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Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynnsabcs View Post
I had already thought about removing the paper to lighten but doesnt it add some strength?
Light weight requires less strength.

I personally would not fly a 100g, 18" plane indoors, unless it was a Football stadium/golf dome. My 80g 18" planes are too fast for a gym.

It would be way too fast and have too much KE for a gym... it will shatter when it smacks a wall or the floor.

Here are some recommendations:

Remove the paper or use 3mm Depron, which is available at many Hobby shops.

Exchange the HXT500 servos for 2.0g or 1.7g servos. Move the servos forward of the CG to avoid having to use a heavy battery to balance.

Use a R415 RX. It is Plug/play with the 1.7g/2.0g HK servos.

If you want to use 2S, a 5g HTX motor, 5030 prop and XP7a ESC is a lightweight combo that will fly 8 minutes with a 200 mAh battery.

Shoot for an airframe weight of less than 30g Max and 25g for electronics and it won't be a white knuckle experience.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 05:38 AM
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Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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As others are saying, lighter is definitely better if slow flight is your aim. I'd have expected a total, ready to fly weight of not much more than your bare airframe weight - much in line with what UNGN is saying.
It takes a while to get your head around such lightweight building (I'm still working towards it) but you need to consider that the lighter a model is, the less inertia it has, so the less damage there is in a mishap. Build to fly, rather than to survive a crash, and there's less chance that it will crash. In other words, get rid of every gram you possibly can and still end up with a rigid airframe. If it isn't going to hit things very hard, it doesn't need to be particularly strong.

Pete
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 12:48 PM
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United States, TN, Knoxville
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What about going lite, removing paper and using motor/trans and brick from a PZ P 51?
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:47 PM
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Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynnsabcs View Post
What about going lite, removing paper and using motor/trans and brick from a PZ P 51?
That would be the best option for indoor @ 18" WS.

Shoot for a AUW of 50g or less assuming 5g for the battery, 4g for the brick and 7g for the motor/prop (about 35g left for the Airframe with pushrods)

with 3mm Depron and sanding, a 40g AUW should be possible.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 06:45 AM
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Half scale fogey

What motor are you using?

I have a C10 on mine
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 07:19 AM
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Small Scale Indoor Fogey

I tested a 2900kv C10 motor from HK with a 4.1 X 4.1 prop witha 3 cell draws it 5.4 Amps on the test rig for 123 Grams of thrust or 4.4 Oz


Dimension: 17.8mm x 24mm
Weight: 7.9g /0.28oz (not including mount)
Diameter of shaft: 2.0mm
Length of front shaft: 6mm
KV: 2900
Unload current: 11.1v 0.5A
Max Load: 5.1A

Mine flew outside on a calm day, but still need to lose weight at 110 Grams

I have this battery coming Turnigy nano-tech 180mah 3S 25~40C Lipo Pack



Capacity: 180mAh
Voltage: 3S1P / 3 Cell / 11.1V
Discharge: 25C Constant / 40C Burst
Weight: 19g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 35x20x15mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: JST

I have a 6 Gram ESC Hobbyking SS Series 8-10A ESC


Here's my current design
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