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Old Feb 01, 2013, 01:32 PM
Figure Nine Champ
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North Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman Adlam View Post
So,

I respond to logan5 append, in which he suggested some vague stats about the difference in US and UK rape rates, indicating that there seems to be little or no difference in the rates between the countries. In fact the US having been worse most of the time. Yet you point out instances where a gun came into the equation.

I suspect you wouldn't believe that that approach was biased, and proving little, because you wouldn't show all the others where the rapes were 'successful' and no gun intervention prevailed.

Basically, we have insignificant gun usage, whilst you have almost more guns than people - yet overall you are failing to reduce these crimes below what we have (which seems to be one of the main 'stated' reasons why you want them).

Another fallacious excuse for why guns are 'necessary', madsci!

(And yes, I'm perfectly aware that stats prove little - so why do people invent some vague ones to support an emotive argument? )
You asked abut our wimmin' and I told you.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 01:38 PM
Official Old Git!
Hampshire, UK
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
You asked abut our wimmin' and I told you.
And yet I was commenting on the erroneous and emotive statement suggested that the UK was worse than the US for rapes, obviously due to guns making the difference, despite it being an erroneous statement.

And you told me nothing about your wimmin', just about some random press reports (which you will decry as soon as the same sources decide to say something that doesn't support your opinion!)
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 01:45 PM
Figure Nine Champ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman Adlam View Post
And yet I was commenting on the erroneous and emotive statement suggested that the UK was worse than the US for rapes, obviously due to guns making the difference, despite it being an erroneous statement.
The UK has gotten worse, right?

2,177 2008-2009
3,334 2011-2012

Keeping in mind that is reported rapes.

Quote:
And you told me nothing about your wimmin', just about some random press reports (which you will decry as soon as the same sources decide to say something that doesn't support your opinion!)
After I've tried unsuccessfully to verify, Norman, only after.

What I posted, is evidence for not restricting gun control, since contrary to many anti-gun people, many cases per year are reported where women have fared better since they had possession of a weapon, usually a handgun.

Go ahead and call that "nothing", but to those women, it was a lot.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 01:56 PM
Official Old Git!
Hampshire, UK
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
The UK has gotten worse, right?

2,177 2008-2009
3,334 2011-2012

Keeping in mind that is reported rapes.

After I've tried unsuccessfully to verify, Norman, only after.

What I posted, is evidence for not restricting gun control, since contrary to many anti-gun people, many cases per year are reported where women have fared better since they had possession of a weapon, usually a handgun.

Go ahead and call that "nothing", but to those women, it was a lot.
It looks like it going by the figures - and I can only go by such figures.

But you still are blatantly ignoring the US stats, which was the comparison that I commented on.

And puleeze, don't lay on me your guilt trip!

I've never said anything about suggesting such a crime was 'nothing', and you insult me by suggesting such!

(I've also never suggested such things as 'it's the price we pay' for instance.. )
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 01:58 PM
Figure Nine Champ
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To quote,

And you told me nothing about your wimmin', just about some random press reports

I certainly told you more than "nothing".
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:00 PM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dll932 View Post
Nd
Well, I have several extinguishers in the house and one in each car. I also keep first aid kits around. I have deadbolts, smoke alarms and and alarm system. And yes, I keep arms. My gal knows how to use them but doesn't carry. She is, however, taking kung fu and swi jou (sp?). I believe every women should have self defense training at least.

You sound like someone who never had a violent encounter and I'm glad. Not all have been so lucky; for instance, some nut tried to strangle my mom in a lady's bathroom many years ago. She got away unharmed and luckily the fool was caught. Things like that tend to raise your awareness.
My wife's mother was mugged twice in Los Angeles, I was mugged once as well ... crime is real. Those that wish to live as though it doesn't exist don't bother me at all ... except when they want me to also put their blinders on.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:04 PM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
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Percentage of rape victimes...
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...e-rape-victims

Percentage of assault victims ...
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ssault-victims
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:05 PM
Figure Nine Champ
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Oops, real facts.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:13 PM
Watts is life...
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I hate it when he pulls the facts card
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:24 PM
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Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
Oops, real facts.
it wont matter. Bottom line is simply this ... rape and assault exists. In our country we still do believe that people should be given the right to defend themselves in a manner of their choosing. If other countries don't want to give their citizens the same freedom, then so be it. I personally don't care. But it is pretty annoying when they comment about our laws and freedoms while sitting on rape and assault rates that would make any rational person cry.
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:28 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
it wont matter. Bottom line is simply this ... rape and assault exists. In our country we still do believe that people should be given the right to defend themselves in a manner of their choosing. If other countries don't want to give their citizens the same freedom, then so be it. I personally don't care. But it is pretty annoying when they comment about our laws and freedoms while sitting on rape and assault rates that would make any rational person cry.
Almost.


'believe that people should not be prevented from exercising the right to defend themselves in a manner of their choosing.'
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:33 PM
Watts is life...
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I hate when he pullls the fine tuning card
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:37 PM
Figure Nine Champ
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That one is important, though, lest people think that their rights are granted to them by the current government, and could be taken away by mere government whim..
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:43 PM
Official Old Git!
Hampshire, UK
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
Oops, real facts.
How about this report - for 2012... (as the one logan5 showed seemed to have no dates on it)

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-a...tics/data.html

Which still supports the fact that your so-called safety-from-rape-by-having-guns aren't born out by the facts..

Anyway, I'm not going to get into a 'fact-fest' - it's boring and goes no-where!
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Old Feb 01, 2013, 02:44 PM
Official Old Git!
Hampshire, UK
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
That one is important, though, lest people think that their rights are granted to them by the current government, and could be taken away by mere government whim..
Well, most of us don't bother visiting "Paranoia-R-Us"...
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