Now the Elf seems like it sort of breaks the rules. 1. It's a built up winged plane. 2. It's not a full sized plane. 3. It's still pricy in light of #1 and #2, IMHO.

I'd be more tempted to get the Hobby King Versus or the Topsky 1.

If a guy wanted a 1m plane at least the Mini Topsky has a foam core wing... but I probably wouldn't buy a smaller plane.

Of course, the foregoing is just personal opinion.

If you watch the video at Hobby King, keep in mind that fellow demonstrating the plane is a complete newbie to DLG flying.... Yet he is still doing it proving that anyone can fly a DLG if they want to.

does anyone have a used DLG for sale.

.....

Originally Posted by benjamin presten

does anyone have a used DLG for sale.

Benjamin,

In particular, try to get a bagged wing plane, either new or used. They are easier to repair and they are generally more durable than a hollow molded on in the first place.

Mike

Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz

Now the Elf seems like it sort of breaks the rules. 1. It's a built up winged plane. 2. It's not a full sized plane. 3. It's still pricy in light of #1 and #2, IMHO.

Some additional food for thought. Every beginner is different and has different needs. A few reasons why a small Elf/Topsky Mini/DL50/Gambler/Mimi might be a good solution for some new DLG pilots:

1) small models have less of a chance of a tip strike. If a person is particularly uncoordinated that might be good for a first foray into DLG.
2) Rudder/Elevator models have a much lower radio requirement. Some beginners probably have very basic radios. Particularly on small RE models, at least the ones I have (scratch built RE 1.1 meter models) a person might not even need a launch preset. For my 1.1 meter DLGs I don't use a launch preset.
3) Regarding the Elf, Niel said he recommended that. He is a distributor for those and one benefit for local guys is he might have a stock of replacement parts/kits in a pinch. Plus if he has other people flying that then there might be a source of used ones or a lot of folks with experience with them to get setup help from.

Ryan

One thing I just must say is this. Want to see the middle of the road gliders fall off the map and the spread between top of the line gliders get larger? Keep buying gliders like the hobby king virus. Honestly, they must be cracking a whip in the sweat shop to produce them that low. Guys building bagged wing middle of the road gliders cant complete with HK.
Going back about 5 yrs now I think there were quite a few well built foam core bagged wing gliders in the 4-500 range. Many of those builders have moved on to moldies or dropped out.

I see a bit of a trend happening with DLGs lately. Less folks are building kits, more folks are buying one pc wings AKA expensive moldies and middle of the road gliders are now cheaper built [more glass, softer cheaper booms] and used gliders from a few yrs back are in top demand for new pilots. Old lightspeeds and taboos and the likes. The profit margin for guys like Graham has drop off I think. His gliders are incredibly priced IMO Spend your funds in the cottage industry guys. Its what keeps designs constantly evolving .

End of speech

Just keep your eye out in the for sale forum, Dlgs pop up there once in a while, I have sold my last two USA made Bagged wing Orions here in Az. The first one for 200. with full gear and the most recent one for 250. with full gear. It is not a composite but it has lasted me 1.5 years of contests in the top 45 to 60 percent standings. They will teach you what you need and are definitely repairable. Dave had someone drive a van over his wing and he is stilll flying it, now with a elliptical boom.

Once I get my new fuse molds I will continue making a few here and there and selling them off to beginners.

Doug

I don't get it... We're telling complete newbies not to buy a $180 glider from HK but rather to buy a $400-$500 plane from cottage industry builders? I don't know about you guys but most of the younger guys I know, can't afford that. Now, if it were possible for the cottage industry guys to make them for say, $300 and they were better planes than the HK offering, I could justify that. Otherwise, in the absence of a good used, ready to go plane plane for under $500 I'm going to recommend the Topsky and HK planes. I don't think people ought to have to lay out that much cash just to give it a try. If all we want is more expensive planes we had better be prepared not to have many younger newbies join our ranks.... Kind of like it is now.

Originally Posted by DLGjunkyard

One thing I just must say is this. Want to see the middle of the road gliders fall off the map and the spread between top of the line gliders get larger? Keep buying gliders like the hobby king virus.

That genie is already out of the bottle and no amount of interweb posting is putting it back in.

Originally Posted by DLGjunkyard

Going back about 5 yrs now I think there were quite a few well built foam core bagged wing gliders in the 4-500 range. Many of those builders have moved on to moldies or dropped out.

If there is a market for it and people interested in building the planes then the need will be filled. If not then it won't. Look at bagged TD planes. There really are not any these days (well, apparently there are a few people building parts but nothing really large volume since they days of the NSP stuff the end of that being the Polecat Thermal Dancer). Is that because there isn't a market for them or because there isn't anyone interested in building them?


Ryan

Originally Posted by DLGjunkyard

Honestly, they must be cracking a whip in the sweat shop to produce them that low. Guys building bagged wing middle of the road gliders cant complete with HK

Really... Do you buy supplies in the volumes they do? Do you have access to the tooling they do? Do you have several guys that specialize in certain aspects of the construction like they do? Do you sell in the volume they do? There are economies to scale. That's why Henry Ford was so successful with his assembly line. Imagine what an F-150 would cost if it were built by hand by a cottage industry type company.

I understand the sentiment. There is something lost when we go from hand built models to manufactured ones but there is a market out there for newbies that either cant afford an expensive plane now or won't spend that much just to give it a try. They are also not necessarily the guy you were after with your short kits. So, we recommend a respectfully made, yet cheap plane that is good enough to set the hook. There after they get reeled in like every other fish and you cottage industry guys can sell them some expensive competition ship.

Clearly there is a disconnect from what it takes to build a DLG and the money paid out to do so. I recall a day not to long ago when you couldnt buy a DLG . You had to make it and even then cost a few hundred. Im not suggesting a newbie shouldn't buy a HK built plane. What Im pointing out is the cottage industry designed those DLGs. R&R Is half the expense for the cottage industry. If you want cheap ships from HK or expensive ships nobody can afford then let the cottage industry die.

Thats the only point I was trying to make. I know money will dictate which way the hobby goes. My comment was addressing why we aren't seeing more middle of the road gliders AKA well built bagged wings with competition worthy performance.

I wasnt directing anything about anybodies suggestions to others. Heck , I have suggested the topsky to guys for yrs now.

I have come to realize very few guys have a clue whats involved to build a quality DLG and I also couldnt give a darn if guys buy kits from me. Its just a option for guys that value building, nothing more.

Originally Posted by rdwoebke

That genie is already out of the bottle and no amount of interweb posting is putting it back in.



If there is a market for it and people interested in building the planes then the need will be filled. If not then it won't. Look at bagged TD planes. There really are not any these days (well, apparently there are a few people building parts but nothing really large volume since they days of the NSP stuff the end of that being the Polecat Thermal Dancer). Is that because there isn't a market for them or because there isn't anyone interested in building them?


Ryan

Its because guys couldnt make a dime building them. Its a shame, they built for the love of building. That love affair is dying in the flying community . Thats gotta be worth something

Originally Posted by DLGjunkyard

Its because guys couldnt make a dime building them. Its a shame, they built for the love of building.

Sure, but that has almost always been the case in the aeromodelling industry, right? Tons of stories about how people made kits, models, or whatever that really couldn't make a living at it.

Ryan

Any industry depends on one thing. That being a value judgement by their perspective customers. It doesn't matter to a purchaser what it takes/costs to bring a DLG to market. What matters to them is how much it will cost and will they derive enough enjoyment from it to justify the expense. It's up to the DLG makers to offer a product that people find value in. If a bagged DLG is considered less than optimal for competition then the competition pilots won't be buying them. If the hand made DLGs are too expensive for the casual flyer they wont buy them either. So as we're talking through this, it becomes very apparent that there is no middle market or at least if there is, it's pretty small.

Originally Posted by rdwoebke

Sure, but that has almost always been the case in the aeromodelling industry, right? Tons of stories about how people made kits, models, or whatever that really couldn't make a living at it.

Ryan

Of course, RC is a hobby and it's not as big a hobby as say.... golf. Certainly for some very few and very lucky people it's a source of income but for most of us it remains simply a hobby. Asking people to pay more than they are willing to for a product to support the cottage industry is kind of like the US auto makers asking people not to buy foreign made cars, even though they are in many instances, cheaper or better or both. People buy what they see value in. If you can make money providing a product like that then you have the basis of a successful business plan. If not, then you don't so you'd better be doing it for some other reason or get out while you still have your sanity.