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Old Jan 27, 2013, 08:22 PM
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On new Cox .049s

I typically use electric systems for my hangar of sport-sized aircraft, but for an upcoming build I have a number of reasons to run gas that I won't dive into now. My question is: Does anyone here have experience with the brand-new line of cox .049 engines, and if so, do you know some of the performance differences between the 4 R/C gassers they offer (the "cruiser," "bomber," "flier," and "aviator?")

I can obviously start to assume what the "bomber" and "cruiser" are for, but I still don't want to base a purchase, no matter how small, on what the name implies. At any rate I'm still in the dark about the aptly named "flier" and "aviator." The site is woefully lacking in stats, and I have trouble viewing the reviews that they probably hope will fix that problem.

In case you don't know what I'm talking about:
http://coxengines.ca/r-c-engines/

Thanks in advance.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:20 PM
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Cox never made a .49 engine. Biggest was a 40 and they never went into production.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:29 PM
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Billy...,


I isn't a Cox .49! It is a .049; one tenth the displacement!

Edit both your post and its title.

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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarZeelon View Post

I isn't a Cox .49! It is a .049; one tenth the displacement!
Thanks for the catch, that'll make a difference...
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 05:00 AM
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Quick correction, Billy!

I like that TeeDee they have on sale for nearly $300... A collector's engine right out of the factory. Nice carburettor, but I thought they need to be owned first!

I would believe the rather attractive prices for the rest of them, suggests they are actually made in the Far East (China!). The low priced parts strengthens this belief.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 06:14 AM
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The people at Cox International are still using up millions of parts that they got when the company was liquidated. They only make new parts when they have to as the new parts raise the price significantly. Before Cox went out of business, they used to make parts in huge numbers to drive the cost down. They actually make all the engines there in Canada now. Actually maybe assembled in Canada is a more accurate statement. But the majority of the parts are still made in USA from leftover bins of parts that they got. Now as to where the new parts are made could be anywhere though, not just China.

The basic differences between the regular engine versions is the machined crankcase versus the cast crankcase and the different colors used to paint or anodize the metal with.
For example the Cruiser, Flyer and diesel RC engines are using a machined crankcase where the crankcase was machined out of bar stock. But the Aviator and Bomber are using a cast crankcase where the crankcase was cast in a mold and then machined.

Except for the RC TD .050 engine and the RC diesel engine, the other RC engines are all the same. Only the crankcase type and the color is different.
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Last edited by earlwb; Jan 28, 2013 at 06:16 AM. Reason: add more information
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 06:20 AM
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These engines are made mainly from a stock pile of spares sold of after Cox stopped trading. See "Cox engines " on Wikipedia for full history.
You either love or hate these little engines. Performance and handling can vary a lot depending on the what parts each engine is built up from.
On the basic reedvalve rear induction 049 model , there is 5 or 6 different cylinder barrels , 2 different pistons, 2 different crankcases, 2 different crankshafts, 4 different back-plates some with built in tanks , 5 or 6 different types of reed shapes and material and at least 5 different glow plug options and finally a diesel conversion option. Many of the options can be fitted together to make a viable engine even if the base engine was a 1956 Baby Bee while some of the parts are from a 1996 049.
All Cox engines love a bit of nitro min. 10% and 20% castor oil. At a push they will run on heli fuel but they don't really like synthetic oils as the thinner viscosity makes consistent carburation difficult.

The most annoying thing about these little engine is , because of the small size , an electric starter is a no-no and will quickly damage the engine breaking co rods etc, so you have to flick start it with yours finger. They bite!!! They also have the annoying habit of starting the wrong way. If you have a normal tractor prop and flick it CCW anti clock wise it will run backwards CW. The answer is to get one with a recoil start spring ( or buy a spring that will suit your engine but beware there are CW and CCW available , some work on the back of the prop and some work on a cam system which requires a special hexagonal prop driver. )


The alternative is to buy a AP Wasp .061 which for around 29 from LHS comes with r/c throttle, and small muffler. It is a bit more powerful and of a similar size. Friends and I have had at least 4 of these engines from "Barnstormers RC Models " in Winsford over the last couple of years. They are part of the Super Custom range of Aero engines.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybobjoepants View Post
I typically use electric systems for my hangar of sport-sized aircraft, but for an upcoming build I have a number of reasons to run gas that I won't dive into now. My question is: Does anyone here have experience with the brand-new line of cox .049 engines, and if so, do you know some of the performance differences between the 4 R/C gassers they offer (the "cruiser," "bomber," "flier," and "aviator?")

I can obviously start to assume what the "bomber" and "cruiser" are for, but I still don't want to base a purchase, no matter how small, on what the name implies. At any rate I'm still in the dark about the aptly named "flier" and "aviator." The site is woefully lacking in stats, and I have trouble viewing the reviews that they probably hope will fix that problem.

In case you don't know what I'm talking about:
http://coxengines.ca/r-c-engines/

Thanks in advance.
In addition to my above post, the size of model suitable for the Cox 049 is around 25" wingspan for any performance or aerobatics . I have used them in a powered glider of about 60" span but that was a light built-up construction. I've never used one with a throttle fitted as they are very basic with poor tick over. They are a bit of fun , their unsilenced scream can annoy others but there run on a minuscule amount of fuel. A pair of vynl or latex glove are useful as the fuel and exhaust get everywhere. Performance wise a 5 brushless motor and a 5 2s lipo from HK or Giantshark would beat it hands down but that's not the point!
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royotr View Post
The most annoying thing about these little engine is , because of the small size , an electric starter is a no-no and will quickly damage the engine breaking co rods etc, so you have to flick start it with yours finger. They bite!!!
I use a chicken stick. (CL accessory, one can make one by using a dowel and section of hose over the dowel.) They're cheap enough one can buy one already made ($3.95 US from Cox International, Canada).

http://coxengines.ca/chicken-stick.html



Quote:
They also have the annoying habit of starting the wrong way. If you have a normal tractor prop and flick it CCW anti clock wise it will run backwards CW. The answer is to get one with a recoil start spring ( or buy a spring that will suit your engine but beware there are CW and CCW available, some work on the back of the prop and some work on a cam system which requires a special hexagonal prop driver. )
There are 2 versions of the cam starter. One is the type you mention;

http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-snap-s...am-hex-rh.html



the other fits over the prop drive plate (see photo attachment). The .049 RC Bee in the photo has a smaller diameter drive plate behind the starter cam. I don't know if this may be the same prop drive plate as used in the .049 Medallion and Tee Dee. I don't own either to be able to compare. Currently Cox International (Canada) is selling the one requiring the hex prop drive plate.

http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-drive-...-aluminum.html



I've heard the cam version loses about 300 RPM from the top end. I don't have a tach so I have no numbers. I've used the cam version a lot and it works for me on sport models. If one is concerned about RPM loss, then go for the other version.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 01:50 PM
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Direct your questions here: http://www.coxengineforum.com/

BTW, those "machined" crankcases were, IIRC, extrusions that were cut into chunks than machined. The cast crankcases are a "what goes around comes around" thing, since the original Space Bugs and Thermal Hoppers used a cast crankcase, as the above forum shows.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarZeelon View Post
Quick correction, Billy!

I like that TeeDee they have on sale for nearly $300... A collector's engine right out of the factory. Nice carburettor, but I thought they need to be owned first!

I would believe the rather attractive prices for the rest of them, suggests they are actually made in the Far East (China!). The low priced parts strengthens this belief.
i think only a few of the reproduction parts like fuel tanks might be made in china. the die-cast crank cases might also have been made there but as far as i know these are all old stock and were never really successful. the rest of the old stock was US made, low price was due to the massive quantity in which they were made.

really interesting part is that the new reproduction cylinders are made right here in israel
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 04:43 PM
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Hi Billibob,

for the exact difference between cruiser, bomber etc, (beside the accessories) I would ask the guys at coxengines.ca. Nice people and always happy to help.
Some info about Cox engines is herehttp://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/cox_frameset.htm

I had some Cox motors when starting modelling decades ago and meanwhile bought 3 new ones from coxengines.ca. Cox motors for small aircraft where great in its time, when lipos and brushless where terms that even science fiction did not know.
Today, if you want to use a Cox instead of electric - what I personally whould always recommend - you should know that they need more management than electrics. Starting them is easy once you have a little practice, all 3 I bought perform flawlessly. They litterally scream during operation (typical Cox music), so if noise is an issue think about it. There are mufflers for Cox, but they only muffle perfomance. Oil residue is spread all over the model, cleaning the aircraft is mandatory. Power output can be influencend by the amount of Nitromethan. I use 15%, you can go up to 30% or even more, however lifetime of the engine will be reduced ( which is no big deal as spares are cheap an disassembling is easy).
I like them because of the "good old times", because electric flying today is no challenge anymore, and I like to have huge amounts of fuel on board for a flying time of +30 minutes.

regards
Andi
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 05:35 PM
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on the engines mentioned by the OP:

the aviator and bomber both have the inferior die-cast case but with with pretty paint...stay away from that pair IMO.

the cruiser and flyer have the better extruded cases. i would go with the flyer which has the anodized case as it is less prone to wear out. it is missing the little spinner which is really just cosmetic and only a couple dollars more if you really want it: http://coxengines.ca/front-end/
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 07:34 PM
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I have to ask as to why the die cast crankcase is considered inferior? I didn't think there would be any significant difference in the performance or running of the engines.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 08:21 PM
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There is no difference. Also they made a small electric starter for 1/2A engine and it did zero harm to Cox engines. I still have a fuel box full of them. Most Cox engine came with spring starters anyway. Never saw a TD 049 go for $300. I have several brand new TD 049's and 051's. I'd sell them in a heart beat if someone offered me $300. Hell. I'd sell them for $200.
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