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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:05 PM
Gravity is patient............
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I have a hybrid, they're nice, but I would love to get a Tesla. I will eventually get one if gas prices go above $5. That shouldn't take very long.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:37 PM
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Leasing is a suckers play unless you can write it off for business.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by saltyzoo View Post
Leasing is a suckers play unless you can write it off for business.
financially, probably so. Unless you just like to have a new-ish car on a regular basis. Then it's just a matter of how you choose to spend your money.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 03:14 PM
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financially, probably so. Unless you just like to have a new-ish car on a regular basis. Then it's just a matter of how you choose to spend your money.
Even if you only keep the car two years it's most likely a bad move, unless you have 0 down - in which case you probably shouldn't be buying a new car anyway.

If you don't mind throwing money away, then yeah, it's just a matter of how you choose to spend your money. I don't know that doing it on purpose makes you any less a sucker.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by saltyzoo View Post
Even if you only keep the car two years it's most likely a bad move, unless you have 0 down - in which case you probably shouldn't be buying a new car anyway.

If you don't mind throwing money away, then yeah, it's just a matter of how you choose to spend your money. I don't know that doing it on purpose makes you any less a sucker.
for some, having a new car every couple years is worth the financial equivalent of throwing money away. I personally have never leased a car...yet.

The lease on a Volt is often 0 down due to the 7500 credit as i've heard, so it's a little bit of an anomaly since there's no advantage to putting money down.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk View Post
for some, having a new car every couple years is worth the financial equivalent of throwing money away. I personally have never leased a car...yet.

The lease on a Volt is often 0 down due to the 7500 credit as i've heard, so it's a little bit of an anomaly since there's no advantage to putting money down.
You're missing the point. Even if you sell after two years you come out ahead on a purchase in nearly any case. You just have to do the math to see it. The low payment looks nice, but at best you walk away with no equity, and at worst you're paying penalties for mileage and damage. Most suckers, ahem, I mean people, like to ignore that part.

Selling a car after two years is definitely taking a hit, but you take a bigger one on a lease, in most scenarios.

If you treat it nice and don't put miles on it, you're giving away the "unsed equity" to someone else. And if you beat the crap out of it and drive it too much, you'll end up paying a lot more for it.

Works out bad in nearly any case.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 03:42 PM
Radix malorum est cupiditas
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Originally Posted by DenverJayhawk View Post
for some, having a new car every couple years is worth the financial equivalent of throwing money away. I personally have never leased a car...yet.

The lease on a Volt is often 0 down due to the 7500 credit as i've heard, so it's a little bit of an anomaly since there's no advantage to putting money down.
Money should never be put down on a lease, the only reason it is done is to lower the monthly payments (by prepaying them essentially) - if a lease is too expensive w/o a down payment, it is probably not a good idea (IMO).

I've leased many many cars and never put any money down, and there has never been any advantage to doing so.

I buy or lease depending on future plans, for the wifes car that we turn over every 2-3 years, we always lease. The benefits of a fixed cost and the aggressive residuals and interest rates used on auto leases make it a simple choice vs. having to either tie up tens of thousands of dollars or take a loan - plus the resale risk,etc.

The monetary difference is little to nothing depending on the dynamics of the car market. Obviously one of the attributes used to select her car is that it leases out well - in general this will mean a higher end vehicle rather than an economy model.

I have the details of my Volt lease on my Volt thread.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:23 PM
Radix malorum est cupiditas
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Originally Posted by saltyzoo View Post
You're missing the point. Even if you sell after two years you come out ahead on a purchase in nearly any case. You just have to do the math to see it. The low payment looks nice, but at best you walk away with no equity, and at worst you're paying penalties for mileage and damage. Most suckers, ahem, I mean people, like to ignore that part.

Selling a car after two years is definitely taking a hit, but you take a bigger one on a lease, in most scenarios.

If you treat it nice and don't put miles on it, you're giving away the "unsed equity" to someone else. And if you beat the crap out of it and drive it too much, you'll end up paying a lot more for it.

Works out bad in nearly any case.
You seem to be working pretty hard to convince us of your "superior values".

If it doesn't work for you, fine, but projecting your view on to the rest of us is quite the presumption.

I've leased 10+ cars over the years, and have no regrets at all. And over that entire 30 year period, never payed any excess damage fee of any kind - outside of a charge to replace a single damaged tire.

The only differences in cost between a lease and a purchase - assuming the same duration of use and the use of financing are - 1. interest rate, 2. residual value. The interest rates are generally competitive between the two options, so no real factor. The residual value computed in leases is usually competitive or better than you will get on a simple trade in deal when moving to a new car - sure, you may well do better if you are going to do a private sale.

But I am not interested in "earning" the difference by becoming a car salesman/dealer myself and having to sell a car on my own - and certainly not on a repeated basis as would be required.

I will agree that leasing is a bad deal if you are doing it just to get a low payment - it might mean that you would be much better off buying used or at least holding on to a new car longer when it really hits the sweet spot of value in years 3+.

But if you really want to buy new every couple of years (not the low value route in any case), then letting someone else handle the logistics makes plenty of sense IMO.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:25 PM
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Money should never be put down on a lease, the only reason it is done is to lower the monthly payments (by prepaying them essentially) - if a lease is too expensive w/o a down payment, it is probably not a good idea (IMO).

I've leased many many cars and never put any money down, and there has never been any advantage to doing so.

I buy or lease depending on future plans, for the wifes car that we turn over every 2-3 years, we always lease. The benefits of a fixed cost and the aggressive residuals and interest rates used on auto leases make it a simple choice vs. having to either tie up tens of thousands of dollars or take a loan - plus the resale risk,etc.

The monetary difference is little to nothing depending on the dynamics of the car market. Obviously one of the attributes used to select her car is that it leases out well - in general this will mean a higher end vehicle rather than an economy model.

I have the details of my Volt lease on my Volt thread.
What he said ^

I am willing to pay the price to never have a vehicle long enough to start having maintenance issues. To me it's just another monthly expense.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:34 PM
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The C-Max does not come with a spare tire. Would anyone consider that a deal-breaker in making a buying decision? I would not, but the wife is concerned.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by radix2 View Post
You seem to be working pretty hard to convince us of your "superior values".

If it doesn't work for you, fine, but projecting your view on to the rest of us is quite the presumption.

I've leased 10+ cars over the years, and have no regrets at all. And over that entire 30 year period, never payed any excess damage fee of any kind - outside of a charge to replace a single damaged tire.

The only differences in cost between a lease and a purchase - assuming the same duration of use and the use of financing are - 1. interest rate, 2. residual value. The interest rates are generally competitive between the two options, so no real factor. The residual value computed in leases is usually competitive or better than you will get on a simple trade in deal when moving to a new car - sure, you may well do better if you are going to do a private sale.

But I am not interested in "earning" the difference by becoming a car salesman/dealer myself and having to sell a car on my own - and certainly not on a repeated basis as would be required.

I will agree that leasing is a bad deal if you are doing it just to get a low payment - it might mean that you would be much better off buying used or at least holding on to a new car longer when it really hits the sweet spot of value in years 3+.

But if you really want to buy new every couple of years (not the low value route in any case), then letting someone else handle the logistics makes plenty of sense IMO.
Math isn't "superior values". There are times when it makes sense. Most of the time it doesn't. If you haven't done the math, then that nice small payment is always going to look attractive.

Quote:
I've leased 10+ cars over the years, and have no regrets at all. And over that entire 30 year period, never payed any excess damage fee of any kind - outside of a charge to replace a single damaged tire.
Then you gave the leasing company the value you left over. They sold the cars for more because you didn't use up the "average" amount.

Quote:
But I am not interested in "earning" the difference by becoming a car salesman/dealer myself and having to sell a car on my own - and certainly not on a repeated basis as would be required.
That's a fair argument. And yes, my considering that incredibly lazy and frivolous does now cross into the "superior values" category. My apologies for that.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 05:22 PM
Radix malorum est cupiditas
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Math isn't "superior values". There are times when it makes sense. Most of the time it doesn't. If you haven't done the math, then that nice small payment is always going to look attractive.
math is what you pay - value is what you get.

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Then you gave the leasing company the value you left over. They sold the cars for more because you didn't use up the "average" amount.
I've sold plenty of cars to know what it is about. Heck, if they were really lowballing the residuals, I could buy at the end of the lease for the residual value and sell at profit - I've never even been tempted to take that risk.

We have several other cars to balance miles with - when we turn in a lease, it has all the mileage we have paid for.

Frankly, I have no idea how (or if) they ever get what they claim the residual is - I know I couldn't, and I also don't work that cheap.

Quote:
That's a fair argument. And yes, my considering that incredibly lazy and frivolous does now cross into the "superior values" category. My apologies for that.
I understand the lazy and frivolous part - but we all know the list of people that think that what other people value is "wrong" - is plenty long.

let see... people who buy new cars are suckers, people who don't do their own repairs are lazy, people who buy luxury cars are frivolous,..... gee what should we say about people who spend big bucks on silly fish tanks and reefs?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Foot 48 View Post
The C-Max does not come with a spare tire. Would anyone consider that a deal-breaker in making a buying decision? I would not, but the wife is concerned.
Nissan Leaf does not have a spare either. You get Nissan's roadside assistance. If you get a flat, you're stuck until NRR can arrive. If you carry a spare, you give up interior space, mileage (weight penalty) and it costs more. I think I've had one flat in the past 13 years.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 06:34 PM
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The C-Max does not come with a spare tire.
Neither does the Corvette.



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Would anyone consider that a deal-breaker in making a buying decision? I would not, but the wife is concerned.
Would your wife even be able to change a tire by herself even if it DID come with one ?.


Is having a spare tire her biggest concern in making decisions ?. Is that why she picked YOU ?.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 06:40 PM
Radix malorum est cupiditas
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Originally Posted by Pipemajor View Post
Nissan Leaf does not have a spare either. You get Nissan's roadside assistance. If you get a flat, you're stuck until NRR can arrive. If you carry a spare, you give up interior space, mileage (weight penalty) and it costs more. I think I've had one flat in the past 13 years.
Pretty common now to not have a spare.

Now that tire inflation monitoring is standard on cars - realize that you will get a warning well before it is an issue - unless it is a rapid failure -which is less common.

here is a list from AAA of some of the cars without spares, it will be going up every year. http://www.aaa.com/AAA/corpcomm/soci...pare-Tires.pdf
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