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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:14 PM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
Joined Mar 2005
1,517 Posts
Trader Rating: 24
Discussion
Got the shaft......on some batteries.

So I was looking for some 6s batteries for a non-R/C project and found some here on rcgroups in the classifieds. The seller has 44 good feed back entries So I make a deal on 4-6s5000 FlightMax lipos. He says they have low cycles, great shape and all are firm. I pay him and he ships them. So they show up at my house and like a kid at Christmas hurry and open them up. Inside the box is 6 flattened air pouches and all 4 batteries wrapped in a single layer of small bubble wrap with a couple pcs of tape around them. So I open the bubble rap and to my horror one battery is taco'ed and 2 are puffy. One appears to be undamaged. I break out the ole cell checker and the taco'ed pack was 87 milli volts off, the others were 25, 17 and 9. So I quickly PM the guy telling him, " You didn't tell me they were puffy, that they had an imbalance of over 87 mv and that one was slightly taco-ed? What are we going to do about this?" He writes back saying, "Tom,
I've got no clue what you are talking about. None were "puffy" or "taco-ed" and they always charged to between 4.19 and 4.20 per cell. I have been in this hobby for 29 years and have never sold anything I wouldn't buy myself. I am offended by your accusations. I have 100% positive feedback for a reason. I do not know what you are trying to pull but you can stop."

I write back and send pictures saying, "Assuming what you say is true then it was most obviously your packing or lack there of. You wrapped over 7 lbs of batteries in a single layer of small bubble wrap and then used 6 "air packing pillows" to send the batteries 1200 miles in postal trucks and planes? And if that wasn't enough you sent them without insurance? I have many pictures but can't send them to you in a PM on this site. To keep this between us right now I'm going to put them in my runryder.com gallery here, http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/31561/

You will take care of this. I have perfect feedback everywhere, Ebay and every R/C forum there is, been in the R/C world for 35 years and a sponsored pilot. I pack perfectly, always send insured unless it's under 20 bux and make sure everyone is 100% satisfied. I have bought literately hundreds of items from private individuals and never had this happen to me. Before you start defending yourself look at things from my view. I paid you for some good batteries & I got damaged ones. You sold them, you packed and shipped them. I picked up the box on my doorstep, I'm faultless in this transaction. I took very detailed pictures showing the batteries in the 90% popped small bubble rap, the popped air pillows, the crushed box with the shipping label, the crushed ends on the batteries still taped up from delivery, a cell meter showing all cell voltages on all 4 packs. The one that was 87 is now 74 so I don't know if one or more of the cells are getting worse or what. The 9mv and 17mv voltages are OK with me but the 25 and 74 have me really worried.

Let me know what you want to do about this?

Tom "

I get this in return, "Tom,
First you accuse me of sending you "puffy" Taco-ed" batteries that were imbalanced.

Now you say the box was damaged. Maybe before you accuse someone of something you should be honest and tell them what really happened. I know I sent perfect batteries.

With that said, I will tell you straight out, I don't trust you. Had you come to me and said the box was damaged in the first place I would have. I looked at the pics and I see one battery that appears to be misshapen.

What would you like?

So I then write this back," Well not trusting me is convenient. So here is the deal. I get a box I have been waiting for. I'm still like a kid and get excited every time I get a package so I open it up and check the contents. Hmmm.....battery with a crushed end and 2 puffy batteries??? Check with a cell tester and they are imbalanced? First thought...I've been had! Write you a PM and now you tell me you don't trust me? Really? You did a horrible job packing the batteries and took a chance with my $150.00 and have the nerve to say you don't trust me? You shipped them on my $150 without insurance and then say you don't trust me? Who's the one that can't be trusted here really? I trusted you with a pretty good chunk of change so don't make me the bad guy. And for the record I did accuse you of sending "puffy, taco-ed, imbalanced batteries" because that is what I got. Sorry if that offended you but that was my take on it. It wasn't until after I sent the PM that I really paid attention to your packing issues and the box condition. I guess you think I should have went on a "possible cause" of what happened to the batteries before my initial knee jerk reaction PM but I didn't. Not sure why I'm the bad guy but what ever.

I needed 4 batteries for my project. One or two of these used batteries will not be ideal to use with 2 or 3 new ones from hobby king. I would like you to reimburse me for all 4 plus shipping back to you. I will pack them very secure in a box. Flat rate shipping is $11.35 USPS.

I need to get going on my project and wasn't expecting this long delay.

Tom

I then hear nothing and he has been off rcgroups since the 19th.

I'd like to hear others thoughts on this whole ordeal. Here are the pictures I sent him,

Tom
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:25 PM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
Joined Mar 2005
1,517 Posts
Trader Rating: 24
I left his name out intentionally for right now to get a consensus of the majority here on what to do.

Tom
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:29 PM
WITCH HUNTER EXTRAORDINAIRE
USA, FL, Boca Raton
Joined Feb 2001
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How did you pay him, Paypal? if so start a claim right away ,
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:31 PM
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United States, TX, Dallas
Joined Jan 2012
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Paypal claim?
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:53 PM
Old, tired, and abused.
Joined Jun 2011
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Lipos, shipped with USPS? There wouldnt be any insurance claim to be had, so why was it purchased in the first place?

Now that , that is out of the way...

Some of the pics are very blurry, and it is hard to tell what each is trying to "tell".

Ultimately if you did not get what was sold to you, file a claim.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:12 PM
AMA# SIMAGES
simages's Avatar
Hudson Valley
Joined Dec 2006
2,325 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanf58 View Post
Paypal claim?
YES!!! If you paid with PayPal start a claim.

You paid someone for something and you didn't receive what you paid for, period.

So how did you pay?
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:23 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Phelan
Joined Oct 2012
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Was their any picturs of the goods befor they shipped? In the for sale ad
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:34 PM
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United States, CT, Hartford
Joined Jun 2009
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after his initial response the e-mails should have stopped. years in the hobby, feedback, sponsorship etc etc just muddied the waters and started to sound like chest thumping.

"don't know what your trying to pull"....would send me right to the CC or PP dispute area, toots sweet. Get better pics, and try to prepare a concise complaint for the folks at PP or the CC company to see. The packaging alone is a horror show.

Leave appropriate feedback as well !!!
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:37 PM
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USA, IL, Bradley
Joined Jan 2005
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Trader Rating: 45
bad batteries

Some time back I had order a battery from a guy who claimed it was new. It came and it was puffed up and it had a bad cell. It was only a 3 cell. Anyway I pm'd the guy and he said that it was new when he sold it so it was my problem. I turned in a claim with paypal and they denied my claim cause they didnt cover how I received the battery just that I got it. I use a credit card with pay pal so I did a chargeback and got my money back.
Good luck with paypal and getting your money back.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:43 PM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
Joined Mar 2005
1,517 Posts
Trader Rating: 24
Sorry for leaving that info out. I paid with a money order. Paypal account was empty. You know it only takes one to really ruin a great thing we have with the honor system. I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I am.

Bummer.

Tom
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:47 PM
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United States, CT, Hartford
Joined Jun 2009
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Trader Rating: 128
ugh!



PP backed with a CC..almost bulletproof!

I'm pretty sure I saw the original post...NY is a long trip for those batteries to have taken like that.

Sorry for your loss here, it sucks.

90% sure this is where it ends.
10% chance something can be worked out. Fingers crossed.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:58 PM
Addiction Defined
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United States, CA, Simi Valley
Joined Nov 2011
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Lipos if shipped in the air probably won't go well for an insurance claim either. They would be pissed if they found out they had undisclosed lipos in a plane.
Good luck with a honorable outcome.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:38 PM
EIEIEIO Classic is dway ta go!
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Northeast Pa. .Heyna or No?
Joined Aug 2009
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The seller is the shipper, the seller is on the hook to get the items delivered to you in good condition, the seller did a lousy job packing them up, the seller didn't buy the insurance, the seller needs to reimburse you out of his own pocket now.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:13 AM
Flying Full Size & Fun Size :)
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United States, CA, Calabasas
Joined Apr 2010
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Couple things - first, that sucks you got bunk batteries. Perhaps you can pursue some action via the post office since you paid via USPS money order and didn't get what you paid for. Might be worth looking in to.
Second, pretty sure there is absolutely nothing wrong with shipping lipos via USPS, whether done via air or ground. I regularly fly commercial airlines with up to three lipos, and according to TSA rules that is legal. Anywho, see below:

USPS Lipo Shipping Info:
Take a peek here and tell me what you think: http://pe.usps.gov/text/pub52/pub52c3_024.htm

Section 349.221, paragraph d, line 4 states that Li Ion batts can be shipped ground only. However, that section is only for (non-rechargeable) batts, not the Lipo batts we use.

Pretty sure the regulations for LiPo's are a bit further down in section 349.222.
General. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailability of all secondary (rechargeable) lithium-ion cells and batteries:
The lithium content must not exceed 20 Wh (Watt-hour rating) per cell.
The total aggregate lithium content must not exceed 100 Wh per battery.
Each cell or battery must meet the requirements of each test in the UN Manual of Tests and Criteria, part III, and subsection 38.3 as referenced in DOT’s hazardous materials regulation at 49 CFR 171.7.
The mailpiece must not contain more than three batteries.
All outer packages must have a complete delivery and return address.

and:
Mailed Without Equipment. The following additional restrictions apply to the mailing of secondary cells or batteries without equipment (individual batteries):
The secondary lithium cells and batteries must be mailed in “the originally sealed packaging”, and the package may contain no more than three batteries.
The sealed packages of batteries must be separated and cushioned to prevent short circuit, movement, or damage.
The shipment must be contained in a strong enough sealed package to prevent crushing of the package or exposure of the contents during normal handling in the mail.
The outside of the package must be marked on the address side “Package Contains Lithium-ion Batteries (no lithium metal).”


Let me know if you think I'm interpreting it correctly.

Best of luck,
Josh
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Last edited by jgalexander; Jan 26, 2013 at 03:31 AM. Reason: Clarity
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:45 AM
Addiction Defined
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United States, CA, Simi Valley
Joined Nov 2011
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It seems to only point out cell phone and laptop batteries. No more than 3 in a crush proof box and doesn't really address shipment by air. Domestic ground. I wouldn't want to be in a plane with a bunch of 6 cell lipos. I've seen what happens when they pop. But I guess we have gone off point here. Sorry
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